Confused

[ouranopolis]

Hi all . I need some assistance. Long story but I came to faith in a bible believing conservative evangelical church . However I realised although I had a genuine faith , my life changed little , and saw few fruits of the spirit. I explored the ancient church and was baptised orthodox . through spiritual disciplines fasting set prayer times etc my life was revolutionised. My alcoholism ceased , along with a host of other big sin issues in my life. However I live in UK and wife is a strong evangelical I simply couldn't sustain travelling to attend an orthodox church with a wife dead against the style of liturgy . also the church I was in basically crumbled due to sin in leadership .
We compromised and went to a supposedly conservative Anglican church which turns out to be against the ordination of women but rejects key biblical truths which is odd. We left that church to find another with different issues . the only church we have found which preaches young earth creation and a literal Adam and eve , belief in hell as a real place and salvation through Christ , marriage between one man and one woman , homosexuality as sin - is a very " low church " evangelical church .
My wife loves that church and I do love the preaching but - what healed me was orthodox discipline , the Eucharist which I believe in an orthodox sense as being worthy of reverance , I love liturgy and feel close to God in a liturgy which I believe is right worship .these are all lacking in this new church which preaches a pure gospel but has no liturgy , the Eucharist is quite literally thrown to the floor at times during the service and none there seems to think like me that actually fasting and being disciplined is of any benefit , because Christ did it all so we can just kick back .
What I essentially saying is this . I need a church which actually believes the bible , and holds orthodox / catholic liturgical style. It seems most orthodox and catholic groups have long ago abandoned believing the bible is true and kind of merge and evolutionist approach to life with some pomp on a Sunday . Frankly the don't seem to take their faith very seriously. I have read seraph rose extensively and he holds my views - however I m at a loss to find any church resembling his remaining .
So please help this christian who is close to abandoning church altogether. Do I just accept that I m now an evangelical and abandon my previous approach which helped me so . or do I find a traditional catholic group . I don't know which way to turn all I know is I live Jesus and am getting fed up with all this confusion ! Help !

 

[Lost4words]

I have never heard of the Catholic church abandoning that the Bible is true! The whole Catholic mass is 'Biblical'. All the Catholics i know 'Do' take their faith seriously.

 

[ouranopolis]

I have never heard of the Catholic church abandoning that the Bible is true! The whole Catholic mass is 'Biblical'. All the Catholics i know 'Do' take their faith seriously.

Okay glad you are in a church where Al the catholics live according to the bible tfats great . its sadly not my experience . many are borderline alcoholics thus not following the bible on that very well. Catholic church post Vatican 2 has embraces Darwinian evolution thus not biblical . many believe in universal salvation and pope now strongly cosying up to Islam . no point being a christian of we re all saved anyway . but I m glad all the catholics you know aren't like that , must be geographical

 

[chevyontheriver]

Hi all . I need some assistance.

What I essentially saying is this . I need a church which actually believes the bible , and holds orthodox / catholic liturgical style. It seems most orthodox and catholic groups have long ago abandoned believing the bible is true and kind of merge and evolutionist approach to life with some pomp on a Sunday . Frankly the don't seem to take their faith very seriously. I have read seraph rose extensively and he holds my views - however I m at a loss to find any church resembling his remaining .
So please help this christian who is close to abandoning church altogether. Do I just accept that I m now an evangelical and abandon my previous approach which helped me so . or do I find a traditional catholic group . I don't know which way to turn all I know is I live Jesus and am getting fed up with all this confusion ! Help !

Do check out the Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham:

Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham - Wikipedia

The Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham

map: Groups Index - Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham

Reverent, smart, liturgical, tending to good music using actual hymns and chants. They are Catholic, former Anglicans who sought unity with Rome while still keeping their form of worship. I have been to three parishes of the sister Ordinariate in the USA and have been highly impressed with each of them. Don't give up until you have checked them out.

 

[ouranopolis]

I have never heard of the Catholic church abandoning that the Bible is true! The whole Catholic mass is 'Biblical'. All the Catholics i know 'Do' take their faith seriously.

I wasn't really looking for a kneejerk defence of Catholicism . been round the houses enough to know that your comments are either misguided or simply deliberate untruth

 

[ouranopolis]

Do check out the Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham:

Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham - Wikipedia
Thanks I Was considering them . are sspx a good group ? I m rather tired of all this liberalism and change . what the other persons comment says kind of sums it up , all catholics are perfect - that's the kind of mentality I dislike because in fact very few fast, pray and live as they should .
Will check out your link. And thanks

The Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham

map: Groups Index - Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham

Reverent, smart, liturgical, tending to good music using actual hymns and chants. They are Catholic, former Anglicans who sought unity with Rome while still keeping their form of worship. I have been to three parishes of the sister Ordinariate in the USA and have been highly impressed with each of them. Don't give up until you have checked them out.

 

[devin553344]

IMO it sounds like you're taking church too seriously. I know that's probably not what you wanted to hear. But if you feel you need to be more strict in your worship, why expect it in others, or leaders for that matter. Perhaps that's just your style of worship? Something to think about really.

I used to fast 3 days at a time and pray for those 3 days, and performed healing, took the sacrament, etc. I served in my church as a teacher and even a scout master. But now I'm ~50 and just kick back and let others do it.

 

[ouranopolis]

IMO it sounds like you're taking church too seriously. I know that's probably not what you wanted to hear. But if you feel you need to be more strict in your worship, why expect it in others, or leaders for that matter. Perhaps that's just your style of worship? Something to think about really.

I used to fast 3 days at a time and pray for those 3 days, and performed healing, took the sacrament, etc. I served in my church as a teacher and even a scout master. But now I'm ~50 and just kick back and let others do it.

" taking church too seriously " . yes I take my eternal salvation extremely seriously. Its not a kick around at the park or scouts . Christ was scourged and left on a cross to die for me. Yes , I take that seriously - I won't be kicking back any time soon. But thanks all the same

 

[ouranopolis]

IMO it sounds like you're taking church too seriously. I know that's probably not what you wanted to hear. But if you feel you need to be more strict in your worship, why expect it in others, or leaders for that matter. Perhaps that's just your style of worship? Something to think about really.

I used to fast 3 days at a time and pray for those 3 days, and performed healing, took the sacrament, etc. I served in my church as a teacher and even a scout master. But now I'm ~50 and just kick back and let others do it.

When I played rugby I trained relentlessly all day . when I drank and chases women I was a determined fellow. Do we not owe God our all . perhaps some people don't take anything very seriously. I do

 

[devin553344]

When I played rugby I trained relentlessly all day . when I drank and chases women I was a determined fellow. Do we not owe God our all . perhaps some people don't take anything very seriously. I do

I feel saved so I rest I suppose. The Holy Spirit is good to me. All I meant is that there was a time when I felt very much the same. And maybe that's where you need to be at the moment. Maybe that's not for everyone though?

Can't you just go to church and expect more from yourself than others? Or do you need a leader for your salvation? Perhaps the only leader you really need is Jesus?

 

[chevyontheriver]

Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham - Wikipedia
Thanks I Was considering them . are sspx a good group ? I m rather tired of all this liberalism and change . what the other persons comment says kind of sums it up , all catholics are perfect - that's the kind of mentality I dislike because in fact very few fast, pray and live as they should .
Will check out your link. And thanks

The Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham

map: Groups Index - Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham

While sympathetic to the SSPX I am not a fan of schism. At the moment they are technically not in schism, but they have spent most of their existence in schism. My opinion is that the schism of Lefebvre was not necessary even while Lefebvre had many good points.

There is a related group called FSSP, which is similar in everything but schism. They left the SSPX and rejoined the Catholic Church. A very solid group. Latin liturgy.

 

[Lost4words]

I wasn't really looking for a kneejerk defence of Catholicism . been round the houses enough to know that your comments are either misguided or simply deliberate untruth

Then i cannot help you.

You clearly dont understand Catholicism

God bless you

 

[chevyontheriver]

Then i cannot help you.

Give it time and some prayer.

 

[ouranopolis]

It may well be the case that I do not understand Catholicism . can any of us ever really fully understand the depths of our salvation.? All I really desire is a priest who doesn't seek to alter what the bible teachesxand what the church has always taught . can it be so hard. I hear the bible undermined by priests in the pulpit and it breaks my heart. Practically mocking the genesis creation account. I mean why is it even in the bible if it is somecsort of cosmic prank book designed to be so mythical as to be worthy of disrespect . the catechism of pope Pius x appears to stick to the creation truth , quite why so much gets altered can only be satanic . I am friends with many professors of science who totally reject evolution as does my own father - an emeritus professor and agnostic. Why are agnostic professors defending the genesis account more faithfully than most priests . ? Its madness.

 

[ouranopolis]

While sympathetic to the SSPX I am not a fan of schism. At the moment they are technically not in schism, but they have spent most of their existence in schism. My opinion is that the schism of Lefebvre was not necessary even while Lefebvre had many good points.

There is a related group called FSSP, which is similar in everything but schism. They left the SSPX and rejoined the Catholic Church. A very solid group. Latin liturgy.

Thabks for all your helpful advice much appreciated . pray for me ,

 

[ouranopolis]

I feel saved so I rest I suppose. The Holy Spirit is good to me. All I meant is that there was a time when I felt very much the same. And maybe that's where you need to be at the moment. Maybe that's not for everyone though?

Can't you just go to church and expect more from yourself than others? Or do you need a leader for your salvation? Perhaps the only leader you really need is Jesus?

Thabks for your words they have given me food for thought . apologies if I came across rude , I m just frustrated at present . Thanks for showing me grace , its appreciated

 

[John the Ex-Baptist]

Hi Ouranopolis,

I don't know where in the UK you're situated, but you may want to look into the Evangelical Lutheran Church of England. It has strong links with LCMS, which originally nurtured the planting in the UK many years ago, but is fully independant now. Congregations are few and far between, but if one does happen to be anywhere near you, I could not recommend it highly enough.

My own church is in Fareham, U.K., which is just outside of Southampton. The website is: Homepage where you will also find links across the top of the site to a church directory for the UK. We are only a small congregation, as most are, but I have been blessed from head to toe since I joined a couple of years ago. The pastor is also very approachable, well travelled, and has a deep understanding of the Scriptures and also of historic liturgy. Please feel free to contact him and say that I "sent" you. His name is Tapani Simojoki (originally from Finland), but speaks perfect English and I'm sure would be able to give you a bit of sound advice to help in your journey.

God bless,

John

 

[ouranopolis]

Hi Ouranopolis,

I don't know where in the UK you're situated, but you may want to look into the Evangelical Lutheran Church of England. It has strong links with LCMS, which originally nurtured the planting in the UK many years ago, but is fully independant now. Congregations are few and far between, but if one does happen to be anywhere near you, I could not recommend it highly enough.

My own church is in Fareham, U.K., which is just outside of Southampton. The website is: Homepage where you will also find links across the top of the site to a church directory for the UK. We are only a small congregation, as most are, but I have been blessed from head to toe since I joined a couple of years ago. The pastor is also very approachable, well travelled, and has a deep understanding of the Scriptures and also of historic liturgy. Please feel free to contact him and say that I "sent" you. His name is Tapani Simojoki (originally from Finland), but speaks perfect English and I'm sure would be able to give you a bit of sound advice to help in your journey.

God bless,

John

Thanks for taking the time to help John - will take a look , bless you

 

[chevyontheriver]

It may well be the case that I do not understand Catholicism . can any of us ever really fully understand the depths of our salvation.? All I really desire is a priest who doesn't seek to alter what the bible teachesxand what the church has always taught . can it be so hard. I hear the bible undermined by priests in the pulpit and it breaks my heart. Practically mocking the genesis creation account. I mean why is it even in the bible if it is somecsort of cosmic prank book designed to be so mythical as to be worthy of disrespect . the catechism of pope Pius x appears to stick to the creation truth , quite why so much gets altered can only be satanic . I am friends with many professors of science who totally reject evolution as does my own father - an emeritus professor and agnostic. Why are agnostic professors defending the genesis account more faithfully than most priests . ? Its madness.

Not all Catholics are faithful. Not all priests are either. Not even all bishops. But many, even most, are. It's always been that way among the Orthodox and the Catholics, so one must be aware.

Catholics are free, within certain bounds, provisionally until the Church rules otherwise, to accept evolution. Or to accept creationism. But creationism as we see it now is a historical reaction to the Enlightenment more than anything. Scientism, an outgrowth of the Enlightenment, says that the Faith is all wrong and what you see is all that is. That evolution replaces God. That sort of evolutionary theory is, of course, bogus. But then there are the fossils. And the DNA. Those can be talked about, and how to make sense of them.

Look to how the Fathers understood origins, not the Scientismists nor the Fundamentalists.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Thabks for all your helpful advice much appreciated . pray for me ,

I will. I understand your predicament.