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Confused about finding faith.

Discussion in 'For New Christians' started by Jo-Jo, May 3, 2010.

  1. Jo-Jo

    Jo-Jo Newbie

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    I have read in the bible and on this forum that God gives faith and it is not something one can acquire any other way. However, if a person does not believe in God the bible teaches they have been given many chances to accept Christ as their saviour and thus deserve to be punished. Surely if only God can give faith it is not the person's fault they were not blessed with it. God chose not to.
    I'm a new Christian and this really confuses me. I don't see how the two ideas co-exist. Sorry for my ignorance and thank you for taking the time to read this. :)
     
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  2. oi_antz

    oi_antz Opposed to Untruth.

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    Surely if only God can give faith it is not the person's fault they were not blessed with it.

    God has given me faith that I can believe my Horse has blinders.
     
  3. Jpark

    Jpark Well-Known Member

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    Never mind.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2010
  4. oi_antz

    oi_antz Opposed to Untruth.

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    A lot of people will repent, but not all people will repent.

    My God tells me we are pardoned with a decision, is that the same God of the Holy Bible?
     
  5. fm107

    fm107 Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:20

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    I think God gives faith to all men but the amount of faith we each receive from him differs. Some are given more faith than others.

    The amount of faith we receive does not affect whether we believe in God or not because we can see here that only a tiny amount of faith is actually required to believe in God.

    Luke 17:6
    He replied, "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it will obey you.

    The problem doesn't lie with whether God gives faith it is what men do with the faith they receive. I think people who believe in the big bang theory have loads of faith perhaps more so than a Christian. You would have to in order to believe something as absurd as that. So God has blessed many non believers with a great amount of faith, it's just that they misplace their faith. Look at all the Muslims, they have misplaced their faith and believe in a made up God who doesn't even exist.

    Men can also lose their faith. They give into a doubting mind etc.

    I hope this answers your question.

    ............................................................................................

    jpark43,

    I am very shocked at your answer here. I don't know if your trying to be smart or what but you are totally off mark here.

    Surely you know that the whole point of the gospel is to accept Jesus or go to Hell for rejecting him?

    John 3:18
    Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

    John 3:36
    Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

    As you see, a fate of a person is written down like this. This is the whole point of the gospel.

    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

    What are you talking about?
     
  6. Jo-Jo

    Jo-Jo Newbie

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    Thank you! That clears it up in my head. I think was confusing 'faith' with the actual belief in God. As in, I thought God gave belief in God as oppose to giving the faith to believe in God. I don't think that made sense, sorry!
    Other posters, I didn't follow but if you were trying to be helpful - thanks :)
     
  7. fm107

    fm107 Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:20

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    Your very welcome.

    I'm not even sure if the other posters are Christians!

    God bless.
     
  8. AlexBP

    AlexBP Newbie

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    To understand the concept of God giving us faith, a metaphor may be helpful. Consider teachers and education. Certainly teachers give their students education. However, at the same time, the process of education is one that requires initiative and cooperation on the part of both the students and the teachers. So looked at another way, a teacher cannot give education to a student who's actively resists receiving it.

    In a similar way, God gives faith to everybody, yet does not give faith to those who deliberately reject it. In other words, God provides the opportunity to receive faith to everybody, and some people accept it while others reject it.
     
  9. oi_antz

    oi_antz Opposed to Untruth.

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    I think the point is accentuated by the fact the Jews did not accept Jesus was Christ, but they did accept the Christ as the son of God. Knowing that you have not been able to believe Jesus is Christ is the thing which puts you through Hell, but I wouldn't like to believe it sends you to Hell for all of eternity.. that's just my thoughts though, we all have to decide how to make the right conclusion..
     
  10. oi_antz

    oi_antz Opposed to Untruth.

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    I think we all have a belief in God, why else would we try to explain the Universe? I think faith is granted when you once in your life come to meet Him.
     
  11. Peripatetic

    Peripatetic Restless mind, peaceful soul.

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    One of the ways to avoid this confusion to remember that the devil and the demons believe in God. In fact, the demons knew that Jesus was the Christ before the people did. Jesus silenced them because He wanted to reveal Himself in His own time. Faith, or real Christian "belief" is indeed a gift from God, but we have to be a willing recipient. I blogged about this last week, actually: What it Means to Believe.
     
  12. heymikey80

    heymikey80 Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur

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    Question -- does a murderer deserve to have freedom when his will constantly compels him to murder? Wouldn't we imprison him simply because he wants to murder people?

    Scripture essentially asserts everyone has a heart that wants to murder -- we just don't always make it obvious. Jesus "shone a light" on our wills when He pointed out, "if you're simply angry with a person, or call him names, you're in danger of judgment". Murder is a heart attitude -- and we're all guilty.

    "There is no one righteous; no one. There is no one who seeks God."

    We aren't "morally neutral". We're enemies. Enemies of God, all of us. Should a murderer be absolved his murder if he's raised as an enemy of the people he kills? And yet, justice be claimed, we're all personally responsible.

    God's done something about that, though. He's accepted the verdict and punishment on Himself, on His Son, so that some enemies would be rescued by Him. It's not God's responsibility to save everyone, either. He owes humans nothing. He gives of Himself for people He saves. But a gift is not a requirement.

    What's left? Well, people are judged based on their own conflict with God, with good, and thus being evil, people are punished.
     
  13. oi_antz

    oi_antz Opposed to Untruth.

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    Let's be reminded that no person can sit in God's judgement seat - that is what we do when we misuse judgement. As I understand the purpose of judgement in faith is to evaluate your self for improvement. This is distinct to how religion uses judgement - to evaluate others to fulfil a personal need (usually this will be a power tripper). So what faith does distinctly different from religion is this:

    Faith gives you power of free will to live according to your own personal relationship with Christ and the Father.
    Religion gives the power to someone else.

    It's important to recognise this and be sure we are putting God first and able to take some other person's judgemental tendency with a pinch of salt so we can consider their advice but run it past God in prayer and His Holy Word. Faith is empowering, religion is not because we are powerless to change without Christ, in a nutshell.

    So if you find you are one to give advice on righteousness, it is wise to ask God for support and to monitor your attitude so your message is conveyed as a gift of empowerment and not as selfish dominance, also look at Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs to see how the spiritual need is something which fulfils us and can be addictive.
     
  14. oi_antz

    oi_antz Opposed to Untruth.

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    I'm inclined to see the lake of fire as "the second death" - the turmoil of confusion we suffer while we gain firm standing on the path of righteousness. The first death is the spiritual baptism which opens our eyes to the spiritual realm. The second death can last a few days or a lifetime while we purify our minds into a temple of holiness, its up to you how long you persist to know God when that happens, but I can say it feels better after taking a dunk ;)
     
  15. Dark_Lite

    Dark_Lite Chewbacha

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    MODERATOR HELMET
    [​IMG]

    Thread cleaned of debating posts. As Forealzchola said, this is not a debate forum.​
     
  16. dga

    dga Newbie

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    BELIEVING - (you believe you have already received from God. Faith always sees the answer of the prayer).

    Hebrews 11:1, Romans 4:18-21, James 1:6-8, Mark 11:23, 4:38, 40, 6:5, 6, 9:22-24, 10:52, Matthew 21:21, 22, 8:13, 9:21, 22, 29, 14:29-31, 13:58, Luke 1:18, 20, 5:5, 7:7, 9, 8:24, 25, 49, 50, 18:38, 42, John 4:50, 6:5-8, 20:25, 29

    "It is possible that Christians allow the enemy, to steal from them, by doubting God's promises." 2 Chronicles 16:7-9

    Faith is being fully persuaded and assured about things we do not see. If we could see something, then that is not faith, because we see the thing.
    Once we are born again, we have the faith from (the faith of God) the Holy Spirit in our spirits - (Mark 11:22, Galatians 5:22, [2:20KJV], Romans 12:3, II Corinthians 4:13, I Corinthians 12:9)
    Faith, in the Greek New Testament - (faith - 'pistis'), is the fruit of the Holy Spirit in Galathians 5:22. The same Greek word 'pistis' which means 'faith', is used in Hebrews 11:1 and in Galathians 5:22.

    Faith is not denying the facts which you see with your physical eyes! We consider the facts we see but we do not let them to take the first place in our hearts and minds, or to focus our attention to them, and we do not let them control our lives, thoughts, words and actions!
    Faith is based on what God has said in his Word, and not on what we see or feel! That is what it means, to have the faith of God, in our hearts! Faith is in the heart.

    Faith in God’s promises is obedience, doubt in them is disobedience. Faith is agreement with what God has said, doubt is disagreement with what God has said. Faith is to think as God thinks. Doubt (unbelief, not trusting) in God's promises(Word), grieves the Holy Spirit. In a relationship, if there is not trust (faith) in each other, that relationship is NOT a good relationship anymore but there is a hurt instead!

    „ Change your thoughts with the thoughts of God (his Word)! That is faith!“ - Smith Wigglesworth
    „ I am not moved by what I see. I am moved only by what I believe.“ - Smith Wigglesworth
    “When God does not move, I move him (by faith)”. - Smith Wigglesworth

    "Peter began to sink, because he took his eyes from Jesus, and looked to the waves. He looked at the circumstances, instead to the One, who controls the circumstances - Hebrews 12:2"

    When we ask for something from God, we believe that we have received it, because God has said in his Word, that we have received it, even though, we do not yet see it with our eyes. God’s promises are permanent, so our faith in them must be permanent!
    Believing is a decision or a choice! We decide to believe permanently, without doubt, what the Word of God says about our situation, instead of what we see with our eyes or feel about our situation!
    Doubting is two way thinking (two opinions). At one moment we believe (think) what the Word of God says about our situation, and, the next moment we believe (think) what our five senses tell us about our situation, what we feel or see!
    Believing is focusing your attention in one direction only - the Word of God.
    God can not answer the prayer of a person who doubts, because if he did, he would encourage unbelief!

    We must constantly and permanently believe (think) what the Word of God says of our situation.
    Faith in God’s promises, never gives up, because the Word of God, never changes!

    God does not give you a miracle (salvation, healing) because you need it, but because of your faith, that you receive it! Jesus said: „According to your faith“.

    "If we place or base our faith in God's grace for each of our prayers (salvation, healing, needs, deliverance), we will see answers to our prayers (Ephessians 2:8, John 1:14-17). Grace means God has already given us and provided us by his grace (undeserved favor or good) with all we need (salvation, healing, needs, prosperity), through what Jesus did for us by the cross and resurrection! Our faith does not move God to do something, but makes us accept what God has already done and given us like a gift, by his grace, without we deserving it, and regardless of how good our performance as believers is before God. Faith lets us receive from God, what he has already given us by his grace (salvation, healing, prosperity)! God's love for us is unconditional, and he loves us and gives us (salvation healing, prosperity), regardless of how holy lives we live, because - He is love!"
    "You have to become one with the Word of God, in order to see miracles. Nothing from you - everything from the Word.
     
  17. Bouke285

    Bouke285 It's not a sin to be wrong, but be wrong humbly!

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    There are many things we would not "like" to believe in, but that doesn't make them untrue or unimportant. You have to go by the only standard on which to base any doctrine which is God's word.
     
  18. AvgJoe

    AvgJoe Member since 2005 Supporter

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    Romans 12:3(NKJV)
    3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

    God gives each person a measure of faith, enough whereby each one of us is without excuse for not believing in God. It is up to us what we do with the faith we are given. Do we build upon it by believing & trusting God and His Word? Or do we say 'There is no God' and throw it away? Each person is given enough faith to believe and will be held responsible for what they do with it.
     
  19. DoctorJosh

    DoctorJosh Member

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    Wow, I can see why you can be confused by reading all the different opinions about Faith. Actually, I will tell you how it works. This is my opinion, but directly related to the Word as it is written.
    First, I will put it in simple terms. Faith is simply believing, it is from you that Faith evolves. Not from God the Creator, not from the Lord Jesus. You simply believe in the Lord Jesus and that He is your Savior that has come to be the mediator between you and God. That He has died for you and all our sins who accept Him as our Lord. That is Faith, Faith is Believing. It comes from you only.

    By what other forms of Faith is that if you Pray and ask for something not what you want, but what you need such as health (not money, a mate or etc.) that God will surely give it to you if you truly need it.
    Faith is believing when you ask for something that you will be given it.
    It is not about what God can do for you, but what you can do for God.
    God will ask you, "What have you done for me?"

    By also accepting God you will not have any lights appear, feel different other than you have accepted Jesus as your Lord. How you live your life from there on tells whom you serve really. That is the key. Once you accept Jesus, then live your life for Jesus. That also means through your Faith (belief in Jesus) that you will defend the Word, Defend Jesus in public (anyone using His name in profanity you should also correct them on it), and live according to the decrees and Laws (both the 10 commandments and what Jesus has said) and that makes you a true Christian, a follow of Jesus. Learn to Love Jesus, belief only goes so far.

    Don't let anyone tell you they are holy than you or that they have more Faith than you. Only God can Judge that. However, by your own Judgment you can tell who is acting better (more good) than others by their actions. Even the Pope may not have more Faith than another, for he cannot even move mountains or heal the sick through his own Faith. He struggles just as much as any one else in life. Anyone who disagrees may just want to go ask the Pope himself.

    Faith is trust and belief put together. Have faith as it is written means truly believe in a good translation.
    There are other times that Faith was used instead of the word Trust in the Bible. For instance, in Ex 21 verse 8 it says, "because he has broken faith with her" in which the term Faith refers to Trust. Almost exactly the same thing in many ways, but it is how it is used in the sentence that changes the entire sentence by the reader who reads it.
    Another example is Matthew 6 verse 30 "Oh you of little Faith. So do not worry....", which you can easily put Trust or Belief into the sentence instead of Faith and get the full meaning if it confuses you.
    You have to remember, the translator was not always truly accurate as some words in Greek can mean two or more things, but with the same context of meaning. Faith, Trust, Belief are all relative.

    If you believe you have Faith, but you must Trust in order to Truly Believe. Does that help? It can go even further to say if you accept Jesus, believe in Jesus (which is usually through acceptance), Trust Jesus, then you have Faith. If you Believe and Trust and you have Faith.
    Perhaps putting it in different terms may help someone else as well so I included all of them. :preach:
     
  20. dga

    dga Newbie

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    Faith is like an open hand, waiting for the gift to appear, so that it can receive it. Sometimes, the hand gets tired from waiting for the gift, but it remains open. Faith is a decision or a desire and an act of the will.

    1 Kings 18:43, 44, Psalm 33:20, Psalm 40:1, Psalm 25:5, Psalm 27:14, 2 Peter 1:1, Galatians 5:22, Romans 12:3, Mark 11:22, Romans 10:17, 1 John 5:14-15, Hebrews 11:6, 1 John 1:10, Matthew 19:26, Matthew 14:30, Romans 10:10, Romans 12:2, Hebrews 11:1, Romans 4:18-21, James 1:6-8, Mark 11:23, 4:38, 40, 6:5, 6, 9:22-24, 10:52, Matthew 21:21, 22, 8:13, 9:21, 22, 29, 14:29-31, 13:58, Luke 1:18, 20, 5:5, 7:7, 9, 8:24, 25, 49, 50, 18:38, 42, John 4:50, 6:5-8, 20:25, 29, 2 Chronicles 16:7-9, Mark 11:22, Galatians 5:22, 2:20, Romans 12:3, II Corinthians 4:13, I Corinthians 12:9, Ephessians 2:8, John 1:14-17, Romans: 10:9,10, Mark 11:23, 24, 5:28, 4:38, 40, 9:22-24, Matthew 8:8, 10, 13, 25, 26, 17:20, 21:21, 9:18, 21, 22, 28, 29, 14:30, 31, 15:27, 28, Luke 1:18,20, 38, 5:5, 7:7, 9, 8:24, 25, 17:6, 18:38, 42, John 6:2-8, 11:38-40, James 2:20-26, Mark 11:24, 2:5, 4:38, 40, 2 Kings 5:10,13,14, John 9:7, 4:50, Luke 5:5, 19-20, 25, 8:24, 25, 44, 48, Matthew 8:25, 26, 9:2, 1 Corinth 2:10-16, Revelation 22:17, Luke 16:30, 31, Mark 4:13-20, James 5:7, Joshua 1:8, Psalm 33:18, 22, Hebrews 2:3-4, Mark 16:17,18,20, 1 Corinthians 2:4-5, John 10:25, 38, 14:11, 1 Thessalonians 1:5
     
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