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Featured Confronting a Christian

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by ChicanaRose, May 15, 2019 at 12:04 PM.

  1. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Active Member

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    Do you think that there are cases in which we need to bring someone along (Matt. 18:16) and skip the one-on-one to confrontation (v.15) with a Christian brother or sister?

    Here are some cases I could think of:

    1. The person has a history of being physically and/or verbally abusive (i.e. it is not safe)

    2. The person refuses to take anything you say seriously, and will not get that you mean business unless there is a stronger person acting as a reinforcement.

    3. The person has a habit of lying and twisting your words. I've read in a Christian counseling site that in such cases, you need to bring a witness along to protect yourself from her lying about the conversation.

    Are there other cases you could think of? I want to advise people more carefully from now on, on a case-by-case basis, as well as being more careful for myself.
     
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  2. Endeavourer

    Endeavourer Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes it's not safe to confront; the person is already well aware of his/her offenses. Sometimes it's best to just go straight to Titus 3:10. In particular I'm thinking of abusive people.
     
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  3. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    Yes. I agree with Endeavourer. Sometimes, it is not safe, or wise. Sometimes it is best to let go.
     
  4. Anthony2019

    Anthony2019 "Only Me!" Supporter

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    Silence is often the best answer. That way the individual has no opportunity to misquote you and may start to be concerned about what you are thinking.

    Proverbs 21:23 - Whoso keepeth his mouth and his tongue keepeth his soul from troubles.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019 at 1:23 PM
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  5. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    In every instance, whatever the Father in heaven says to do and to speak, do that.
     
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  6. Sola1517

    Sola1517 Saint-in-Progress (Looking for a Church)

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    Are you purposefully trying to bypass the Scripture's mandate for a reason that is sinful or selfish?
     
  7. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    Yep. There's a time to "talk it out". There's a time to bury things, move on from friendships / relationships, and / or stay quiet.
     
  8. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of His Creation! Supporter

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    #1 isn't like #2 or #3. For #2 and #3 it could help to re-approach the person with the plan to only talk about the issue alone, which creates often a different atmosphere, because of the clear plan and confidence in the plan.
    Matthew 18:15 If your brother sins against you, go and confront him privately. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
    The person could judge it themselves though once hearing this passage -- they would best know whether they could try to talk one-on-one, having heard the progression in the passage. But for #1 it's already the case it's not safe to be alone with them, so it would need to be either with someone or else in a public space (if that's enough) such as a restaurant.
    Sometimes the person may have already done
    Matthew 18:15 If your brother sins against you, go and confront him privately. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
    though, in which case, it's already time for
    Matthew 18:16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

    So, I'd show the person the passage, so they can see how it all would work. Also helpful for believers to know:
    Ephesians 4:2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love,
    and for this they need to pray the Lord's Prayer (Matthew chapter 6) for the aid we need.

    This passage could help at times also! --

    19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:

    “If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
    if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
    In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”

    21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

    So, the aim is to have the help we can have as believers, from above, and remembering the big picture. We cannot force someone to be fixed, but we can treat them well, which often has quite an effect.
     
  9. carp614

    carp614 Member

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    My opinion is that it is generally best to follow the scripture. If you are concerned you will get hurt, confront them quietly in a public place, like a crowded coffee shop. If they do anything stupid, there will be witnesses. If for some reason that can't be done, I think I would probably come with witnesses.
     
  10. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Active Member

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    I think you can see clearly from my post that my focus is safety and protection of oneself. If this question is coming from your own experience, please feel free to share.
     
  11. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Active Member

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    I haven't thought of just not confronting as an option, but this may be necessary on a case-by-case basis. Thank you.
     
  12. Sola1517

    Sola1517 Saint-in-Progress (Looking for a Church)

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    I believe Romans 7:6 says that we are obligated follow the Bible, and specifically we are not obligated to the letter of Scripture but the Spirit of Scripture. I do not believe that it is a case of Revelation 22:19 because I think that it is possible that verse is talking about the book of Revelation only. Therefore, you are not obligated to put yourself in harm's way just because Jesus said that you first go to the person in private. Jesus' commands are not burdensome. (1 John 5:3)
     
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  13. Andrew77

    Andrew77 The walking accident Supporter

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    That's pretty much it.
    If the person refuses to take anything you say seriously.... I would assume you already confronted them on your own... or how would you know they would refuse to take anything you say seriously?

    Anyone that has a habit of lying, is generally a waste of time. You can get a witness.... and that's fine... but if you know they lie constantly, what's the point?

    I honestly have little time to spend with a liar. I move on pretty quick.
     
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  14. Endeavourer

    Endeavourer Well-Known Member

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    Titus 3:10 is Scripture: Titus 3:10 Reject a divisive man after a first and second admonition,

    It is not appropriate to take everything through a Matt 18 approach. It has sadly been my experience that you are highly dependent upon very poorly prepared/trained church leaders who would rather endlessly try ministering to a psychopath than protecting his/her victim. Generally the victim has examined him/her self countless times, is very tenderhearted and almost beat down emotionally to a pulp. The psychopath has no care for anyone but him/herself.

    Therefore, the church sees that the victim will try to follow everything they say (unto the victim's own destruction even) so they sin-level and throw the victim under the bus in their fruitless attempts to win the psychopath to Christ.

    Quite often a victim is not safe to use the Matt 18 process. Titus 3:10 is the best alternative in many cases.
     
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  15. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Active Member

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    Thank you Andrew. I'm sorry I wasn't clear that I am referring to a formal, sit-down confrontation, rather than the momentary "Please stop that" that keeps getting disregarded because one doesn't take you seriously.
     
  16. Sola1517

    Sola1517 Saint-in-Progress (Looking for a Church)

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    Thank you. I mean, I remember as a kid trying to solve everything with the Matthew 18 approach, it was interesting.
     
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  17. Endeavourer

    Endeavourer Well-Known Member

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    @ChicanaRose

    Is this post hypothetical or are you trying to work out your thoughts for an actual situation?
     
  18. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Active Member

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    Actual, with a person with mental illness. I feel like there isn't enough mental illness awareness in the Christian community and we sometimes take the simplistic approach. But we are supposed to be shrewd as snakes as well as being gentle as doves (Matt. 10:16). The balance can be challenging [sigh].
     
  19. Endeavourer

    Endeavourer Well-Known Member

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    Uff, the mental illness factor makes balancing everything so challenging.

    Yet, it is important to not give a "mental illness" pass if their capacity is actually capable of correct behavior in that instance.

    In a marriage, I've seen it to be very important that the person with the mental illness take full responsibility to manage him/herself to be as highly functional as they are capable of achieving. For example, faithfully taking their meds, pursuing all medical remedies, natural remedies, etc etc to mitigate their challenges. Learning coping or behavioral strategies, etc. In a sense, "patient heal thyself". It is very important that the afflicted person not allow their affliction to affect their spouse if they can at all prevent the impact.

    I think much of the same is true in all relationships. If it's a peripheral relationship, I would not see it as wrong for distancing yourself from the person if they are not stepping up to their responsibility.

    Really, the same thing if it's a marital relationship. If it's a spouse that will not take care of themselves so they can have marriage worthy behaviors, a separation to enforce a boundary on how you will be treated would be very motivating for them to take care of themselves.

    Does that perspective help at all? Agree/disagree?
     
  20. Andrew77

    Andrew77 The walking accident Supporter

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    I would always have a direct, face to face, confrontation first.

    Pretend for a moment, that you were doing something that was bothering me. Perhaps you didn't realize I really meant it when I said it was bothering me. Perhaps you thought I was being overly dramatic. Perhaps you just flat out did not realize how much it bothered me.

    Would you rather me talk to you directly in a 1-1 confrontation, and just tell you openly directly that I didn't like what you were doing?

    Or would you rather me grab someone, and drag them into a meeting head on? Try as best you can to put yourself in the other person's shoes. You would rather me approach you by myself, to see if we can work it out, than bring in someone else in our our business.

    I've had this happen at work, where people jump straight to getting a manager first.... when they should have talked to the individual first.

    Then it breeds hate and distrust. Because if the other person doesn't think it was a big deal, until now a manager is breathing down their neck, they feel like they were setup.

    I would do the 1 on 1 first. Always do the 1 on 1 first. Momentary 'stop it'... yeah people should heed what you say, but often those "in the moment" events are overlooked.
     
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