Confession - accountability?

[~Anastasia~]

I was thinking about Confession, and the idea of "accountability partners", and wondering how common it might be that a person refrains from committing sin only because they don't want to reveal it in confession. That question is unanswerable, perhaps, but it led me to wonder - in that case, what sort of spiritual benefit/detriment is there?

On the one hand, the person did not sin. But on the other, it perhaps involves one's desire to be thought well of by man.

Have any of the Saints spoken about this? (And please note - I'm not looking for advice - this is not a personal "problem" but wondering about spiritual formation in general.)

Thanks!

 

[ArmyMatt]

it can. St John Chrysostom says that many people will be saved merely because the don't want to end up in hell. yeah, it's the shallowest avenue, but it will save some.

 

[~Anastasia~]

it can. St John Chrysostom says that many people will be saved merely because the don't want to end up in hell. yeah, it's the shallowest avenue, but it will save some.

That is along the same lines, thank you.

It's a question of motivation then?

I've often thought of the distinction between doing a thing out of pure love for God, vs. doing the same good thing for purely selfish reasons, such as not being punished for doing the opposite.

I don't think I've read that from St. John Chrysostom, but in one way it makes sense. Given that we don't believe God is looking for excuses to send us to hell, it does make sense that He might honor even a selfish move toward Him.







Although, frankly, on the flip side, concerning such texts as speak mostly about spiritual formation, I can imagine some might say that this strengthens that desire to be admired in men's eyes - a touch of vainglory. So those stricter ascetic texts - I think could somewhere say the opposite.


But the first answer is a very pastoral one (and no less valid!). Thank you, btw.


It does make me go back to that thought of how parish priests tend to give one sort of answer to their lay flock, while the writings of ascetic monastics tend to give much stricter advice. (And the thought that Father advised us against going to Confession in a monastery for at least a few years.)

Thanks, Matt. Sorry, I do know I'm rambling. Tumbling various thoughts around. No worries, though. Thank God I'm in good hands all around.

 

[ArmyMatt]

It's a question of motivation then?

it's one of the heart. a shallow heart inclined toward God is still inclined toward God.

Although, frankly, on the flip side, concerning such texts as speak mostly about spiritual formation, I can imagine some might say that this strengthens that desire to be admired in men's eyes - a touch of vainglory. So those stricter ascetic texts - I think could somewhere say the opposite.

well, if it is only for selfish reasons, then Christ says they already have their reward, and they won't have one in heaven.

 

[~Anastasia~]

it's one of the heart. a shallow heart inclined toward God is still inclined toward God.



well, if it is only for selfish reasons, then Christ says they already have their reward, and they won't have one in heaven.

Thank you so much. Both good points.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I'm with Matt. Anything that keeps you from sinning is worthwhile!! And perhaps that shame is a grace from God!

 

[~Anastasia~]

I'm with Matt. Anything that keeps you from sinning is worthwhile!! And perhaps that shame is a grace from God!

Hmmmm. Hadn't thought of that.

But now that you two point things in that direction, it certainly seems in keeping with the actions of God to do whatever works, basically, given our tendencies and personality.

Thanks for bringing that out!

And good to hear from you, Gurney!

 

[ArmyMatt]

Anything that keeps you from sinning is worthwhile!! And perhaps that shame is a grace from God!

every good gift and perfect gift comes from above, coming from Thee the Father of Lights

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Did you make that up all by yourself, Matt?

every good gift and perfect gift comes from above, coming from Thee the Father of Lights

 

[~Anastasia~]

Amazing how many answers can be found in the Liturgy, isn't it?

 

[Wryetui]

I can personally speak for myself, and this happened to me. For example, I wouldn't commit the sin of sodomy in part because I would be very ashamed to confess it, so I would rather not do it.

Anyway, what's the point in it, if I will end up confessing it and repenting for it I would rather not do it at all, right? Just to save all the headache it would cause hehe

 

[~Anastasia~]

Well, not only "having to confess" but it seems that sins we commit have the risk of staining our souls in ways beyond just the guilt of the sin. They can leave a residue, or lead to further temptation, or strengthen a passion, or bring harm to others, etc.

So if we never commit the sin in the first place, we not only save ourselves the embarrassment (or whatever feeling) of having to confess, but also prevent the other damage that might occur.

It's funny though - maybe the "embarrassment" in confession is good for us in a way - if it can be vainglory that tempts us to think more of not wanting to confess and so we avoid sin - rather than a more mature reason of not wanting to offend God, or not wanting to stain ourselves, or not wanting to distance ourselves from God, etc. - if that can represent "vainglory" ... then what of a very free confession?

Who was it? St. Seraphim? St. Theophan the Recluse? I cannot remember ... but someone said they used to confess every sin there was, and the confessor was so surprised because he knew how holy they really were. Maybe it's a bit like the "holy fools" ... heaping such things upon themselves in order to prevent vainglory.

Many interesting aspects as relates to spiritual formation.

 

[Wryetui]

Well, not only "having to confess" but it seems that sins we commit have the risk of staining our souls in ways beyond just the guilt of the sin. They can leave a residue, or lead to further temptation, or strengthen a passion, or bring harm to others, etc.

So if we never commit the sin in the first place, we not only save ourselves the embarrassment (or whatever feeling) of having to confess, but also prevent the other damage that might occur.

It's funny though - maybe the "embarrassment" in confession is good for us in a way - if it can be vainglory that tempts us to think more of not wanting to confess and so we avoid sin - rather than a more mature reason of not wanting to offend God, or not wanting to stain ourselves, or not wanting to distance ourselves from God, etc. - if that can represent "vainglory" ... then what of a very free confession?

Who was it? St. Seraphim? St. Theophan the Recluse? I cannot remember ... but someone said they used to confess every sin there was, and the confessor was so surprised because he knew how holy they really were. Maybe it's a bit like the "holy fools" ... heaping such things upon themselves in order to prevent vainglory.

Many interesting aspects as relates to spiritual formation.

You are right. Someone can't say just "I have diabetes" and a day after "I don't have diabetes anymore" with the body being exactly the way they left it. That simply do not happen, everything leaves a stain and if we talk spiritually the stain is even more noticeable.

 

[All4Christ]

Key thing is for us not to get in the mindset of avoiding confession due to shame. Accountability causing us to avoid sinning to not have to confess it is good - as long as we don't swing too far the other way and avoid confessing something or addressing something we struggle due to having to admit it.

Our priests aren't there to judge us; rather they help us get better from our sickness. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but speaking from personal experience, it is easy to get caught up in that trap as well. We need to get to the right place of knowing that while shame (or avoidance of shame) can be used for helping our salvation, it is more important to face that shame and receive God's forgiveness over keeping up a good face.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Amazing how many answers can be found in the Liturgy, isn't it?

Yep, amazing how much of the Liturgy comes from the Scriptures. It's almost like it was intended....

 

[~Anastasia~]

Key thing is for us not to get in the mindset of avoiding confession due to shame. Accountability causing us to avoid sinning to not have to confess it is good - as long as we don't swing too far the other way and avoid confessing something or addressing something we struggle due to having to admit it.

Our priests aren't there to judge us; rather they help us get better from our sickness. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but speaking from personal experience, it is easy to get caught up in that trap as well. We need to get to the right place of knowing that while shame (or avoidance of shame) can be used for helping our salvation, it is more important to face that shame and receive God's forgiveness over keeping up a good face.

That's a very good point.

I know at first the idea of confession was difficult for me for that reason, but Father reassured me many times on that count.

Which is good. One time I confessed to him something which was actually logismoi, and not strictly necessary to confess as there was no sin on my part. But it was so terrible, I confessed it anyway just because I thought it best not to leave anything "covered" for the enemy to use for ammunition. When I said it, Father actually gasped. Thank GOD I had just read a couple of days before that a distraught monk had confessed the very same terrible logismoi to his elder, and the elder actually chuckled and explained it was common and simply one of the enemy's wiles.

If I had not had that reassurance, and the reassurance from Father concerning being non-judgmental, I probably would have had a difficult time dragging myself back to confession after that. Imagine, making a priest gasp!




(And thank God, also knowing the thing was so far from my nature to know I couldn't do such a thing, even if it was necessary.)

 

[~Anastasia~]

Yep, amazing how much of the Liturgy comes from the Scriptures. It's almost like it was intended....

Ya think???

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Almost like God was behind it

Yep, amazing how much of the Liturgy comes from the Scriptures. It's almost like it was intended....

 

[ArmyMatt]

Almost like God was behind it

I know, right?!