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condition for people to be saved in their last moments

Discussion in '"My Two Cents Worth"' started by mikeforjesus, Apr 21, 2020.

  1. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +190
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    I see what you are trying to tell me people need to seek the Holy Spirit while they have chance to truly believe and to be changed to repent for if they died when they did not have opportunity to seek to know jesus by the Holy Spirit through His word to believe and repent they can not be saved
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  2. Theologyofone

    Theologyofone New Member

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  3. Theologyofone

    Theologyofone New Member

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    Repentance has nothing to do with salvation. Repentance as said is a change of mind. When Paul was on the Road to Damacus the Lord struck him down : And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

    And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do Acts 9:3-6

    There was no repentance in this exchange. What Jesus done was make himself known to Saul and at that very moment Paul understood who he was speaking to, Jesus the one he persecuted.

    It is the same for everyone whom God draws to Him. We recognize who He is and who we are in Him. This is the point of conversion. Paul didn’t say I repent of my sin I accept you into to my heart He knew who Jesus is and asked him to send him.

    Repentance comes after we are converted or nearly the same time it has nothing to do with our salvation. As Eph. 2:8-9 states. Repentance comes when we realize what we are in the midst of Jesus and what he has done to gain our salvation. Repentance is necessary to maintain fellowship with him
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
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  4. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    I am not sure I agree unless you mean by repentance that one is required to have changed before which I do believe people must change while they can but people may be given opportunity to change later or if you mean repentance is not to come before conversion but it is still required to come after conversion. I believe conversion leads to a change of mind and heart and that repentance to follow. I also believe it is dangerous for many to delay conversion because it is always risky for reasons I say above
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  5. Theologyofone

    Theologyofone New Member

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    In the past generations this idea of repentance (although it goes farther than that) as the first step toward salvation has permeated the Christian culture. Working ones way to salvation is the scheme of Satan. God plainly says in Scripture that it is His doing not anything to do with us. God has elected His people before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4) we are not sovereign so we do not know who God has chosen. Here is a passage in Isaiah that petrtains to this;

    Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. Romans 9:10-16

    I not saying that repentance (change of mind) is not important. I am reminded of Isaiah when I think of his manner when he was in the presence of the Almighty in Isaiah 6:5

    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.” He knew exactly who he was in the presence of the Lord Almighty when God reveal himself to him, unclean.

    So even if we are at someone death bed who you do not think has obtained salvation you really do not know. God in the final breathe can make himself known.
     
  6. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    I believe now the truth is that those who live in sin do not all have opportunity to live on to seek the Holy Spirit and to repent if you call on the Lord when you have been judged it can be too late as person may not be able to encounter God and be repentant if He does not give opportunity as person is judged so it can be too late a person has to be repentant before that truly to truly be living in his heart free from all sin and hating it. But if God does not judge one in a way that he does not have chance to seek God that person may have chance to repent on one death bed but if one does not seek Him diligently he may not be able even to repent on death bed only God knows how much time is necessary for some to find Him if he already gave enough time for one it could always be available just before death but you don’t know when you will die though it is harder to find so it is better to seek earlier repentance

    So Jesus said if your hand causes you to sin cut it off which He does not mean cut a literal hand off but do whatever is necessary to be free from the temptation to sin that makes your hand sin
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  7. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +190
    Christian
    I do not agree that God does not give everyone opportunity to be saved who has heard the gospel it is not up to them to make themselves believe it only God can make people believe it so jesus said ask that you may receive seek that you may find knock and the door will be opened for everyone who asks receives and he who seeks finds and whoever knocks the door will be opened unto him but people have to seek while they have opportunity so if they never allowed themselves to hear the gospel and ask God they can not believe yet God has mercy on whom He wills to reveal to some even if they do not have chance to read the bible but they are seeking
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
  8. Theologyofone

    Theologyofone New Member

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    I don't understand why you "not agree"with me when we pretty mich said the same thing. It 's only God gives the faith to believe as you have said.
     
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  9. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    Ok I thought you were saying that God chooses only certain people to give faith to so that even if they are seeking they can not find
     
  10. Theologyofone

    Theologyofone New Member

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    God extends his arms to everyone. If one is to come to the Lord, it is because the Father draws him by his own one does not seek God.

    Romans 33:10-11 As it is written, there is no one righteous, not even one; is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one”.

    I know with my heart and my mind that in the final analysis it is the Lord's work to draw men unto Himself and ours only to "lift Him up" (John 3:14). Men are not born again by human will, nor because of blood relationships, nor even because out of their own inner being they desire to be saved (John 1:12, 13). It is perfectly true that whosoever will may come, but it is also true that whosoever may, will come. We will to come only because God has graciously worked upon our wills to turn them about. We may come only because He has opened the way for us and in us, making it possible. Whosoever will, may come; and whosoever may, will come. When God makes it possible by converting our wills to seek his face, then we may come, and only then. At the same time, because of his sovereignty, once this turnabout has been wrought in us by his Holy Spirit, then the rest is certain, no matter how long it takes. We shall come.
    Sovereignty - Preface and Introduction
     
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  11. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    The bible says God draws all men to seek Him but people may refuse to seek Him
     
  12. Theologyofone

    Theologyofone New Member

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    I don't recall seeing that verse.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  13. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +190
    Christian
    It says God draws all men to Him that means they are to seek Him for the bible also says I stand at the door and knock if anyone hear His voice and open the door Jesus will come to Him to hear His voice is to allow oneself to be open to His drawing to read His words so that one can open the door of his heart to Him so that God can reveal Himself
     
  14. Theologyofone

    Theologyofone New Member

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    It is God who does the drawing... if you are seeking it is because He wills it, nothing that you do.
    Romans 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

    Only Jesus sheep hear His voice unless God opens your heart you will not here the knock.

    The theology of today has taught and allowed this fallacy to come on the we seek God we make a decision to follow him and a decision fro salvation.
     
  15. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +190
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    So you want to say that God does not even give some people a chance it seems some Christians believe in an unfair God.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
  16. Theologyofone

    Theologyofone New Member

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    All men are condemn already. He is fallen depraved being who does not seek God. The word of God will not penetrate their hearts unless a God by His Grace draws them. God is not unfair. Those who think He is just have a lack of understanding who God is.
     
  17. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +190
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    I believe it is up to people to repent but people who are wicked would never respond to Holy Spirit to truly repent. It may be if you plan to delay to respond to Spirit you won’t have a chance to respond later. The bible says God is not willing for any to perish and to make intercession for all so no one is unredeemable if they turn while they have chance to truly call on the Lord if they desire to truly repent as the bible says God desires all men to be saved. But God knows people heart if they ever turned to Him in true repentance for once God punishes if a person did not call on Him before and truly repent it seems too late and person may lose one chance to call on God to grant one repentance but why does the bible say let everything that has breath praise the Lord could it mean everyone who is still alive if they genuinely repent just before they die they can be saved but a repentance may not be genuine if a person repents just because he knows he is going to die such as being on one death bed after having lived all or most one life in sin if one turns to God then one repentance may not be genuine one may not really be sorry for one sins or knowing he will be in an accident that might be life threatening such repentance may not be genuine and some deaths happen in an instant when you can’t know that you are not prepared for and you die in a moment without having any consciousness and even those who don’t die straightaway but are conscious for a few moments before they die and seek to call out to God to be saved their repentance may not be genuine but I suppose God knows one heart if one repentance is genuine that he really had a change of heart before one died.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
  18. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +190
    Christian
    The foolish in the parable of the virgins concerns those who only want to appear that they are Christian but do not actually love Christ and wish that Christ is magnified and preached to lost that they may have a chance to be saved to be true Christians repenting to ever wish to serve Christ but it is a parable addressing all people who are not living holy and righteous like the wise virgins Christ makes all virgins who turn to Him in true repentance but a person must turn to Him in truth and he does not know when he will lose his chance the foolish could know their need for Christ but not seek repentance before they die and repentance must be genuine you can not seek to repent in last second for you don’t know when it is for you to have repented before that and seeking to merely accept Christ in last second is not genuine and a true repentance for repentance must come with some striving so people have to strive while they have chance to have true repentance to be worthy of Christ because they don’t know if they will die in that second and I don’t know how easy it is to repent late for people to find Christ before last moment so it is safer to follow Christ before.

    People should not delay repentance because you don’t know how long you will live and I don’t know how easy it is to repent later to find Christ later
    so people should follow Christ earlier to live righteous lives and to preach the gospel because I can not say how easy it is to find Christ later
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2021
  19. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +190
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    God accepts anyone to return to Him to serve Him while they have chance to seek to do good so they will be regarded servants and trusting in Him they will be saved anyone can seek the Lord but the wicked never will they will never be sorry for their sins but wicked people could be punished if living in sin unrepentant and may not be given opportunity to repent then or they could but are not likely if they are wicked to truly turn to God in true repentance to repent

    I think let everything that has breath praise God does not mean everything that has breath can be saved as a person could be alive but he is being judged it is to have desire that every living thing gives glory to God He deserves which the wicked will be made to give when they are punished by God as it says His enemies will be footstools that is will give glory to Him and every knee will bow and confess Jesus is Lord to glory of God the Father that is they will confess He is God and has right to be Lord over people whether they accepted it or not.

    Not everyone therefore will be accepted by a mere acknowledgement of wrong but as with the parable of the virgins a person had to be living in Him as Jesus said to be watchful and if a person is punished it is too late if person was not repentant and found living in Him because it seems person is being judged and I don’t know if God will give opportunity for that person to be converted even if he has few moments to find Him because it may be too late then as God allowed judgement then.
    If one is not judged then we know God gave that person opportunity to repent that there is a chance to be converted and die having found the oil to have repented to die as one converted but it is less likely to find the longer you delay though I believe it is possible but you might not have sought diligently before that final moment to find Him and because you need to seek diligently it is not wise to delay because if you do not you may not find Him

    Psalm 34
    1 I will bless the LORD at all times;
    His praise shall continually be in my mouth.
    2 My soul shall make its boast in the LORD;
    The humble shall hear of it and be glad.
    3 Oh, magnify the LORD with me,
    And let us exalt His name together.
    4 I sought the LORD, and He heard me,
    And delivered me from all my fears.
    5 They looked to Him and were radiant,
    And their faces were not ashamed.
    6 This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him,
    And saved him out of all his troubles.
    7 The angel of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him,
    And delivers them.
    8 Oh, taste and see that the LORD is good;
    Blessed is the man who trusts in Him!
    9 Oh, fear the LORD, you His saints!
    There is no want to those who fear Him.
    10 The young lions lack and suffer hunger;
    But those who seek the LORD shall not lack any good thing.
    11 Come, you children, listen to me;
    I will teach you the fear of the LORD.
    12 Who is the man who desires life,
    And loves many days, that he may see good?
    13 Keep your tongue from evil,
    And your lips from speaking deceit.
    14 Depart from evil and do good;
    Seek peace and pursue it.
    15 The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
    And His ears are open to their cry.
    16 The face of the LORD is against those who do evil,To cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
    17 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears,
    And delivers them out of all their troubles.
    18 The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart,
    And saves such as have a contrite spirit.
    19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous,
    But the LORD delivers him out of them all.
    20 He guards all his bones;
    Not one of them is broken.
    21 Evil shall slay the wicked,
    And those who hate the righteous shall be condemned.
    22 The LORD redeems the soul of His servants,
    And none of those who trust in Him shall be condemned
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
  20. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +190
    Christian
    I believe anyone can be saved as bible says God is not willing for any to perish and God takes no pleasure in death of the wicked but He requires them to repent that is why the bible says to turn while you have opportunity if you die in your sleep or some way sudden without being converted having truly repented you wont have opportunity to turn back and also God knows a person repentance if it is sincere

    I watched this video on Facebook and it helped me understand more to know how bible teaches that God loves everyone


    Rebellion and Youth | Billy Graham Classic Sermon
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2021
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