Completely Conformed

justbyfaith

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No. The reality is that when we sin, we sin with the whole of our being; we are responsible for what we do. Giving credence to a lie saying there is a reality to it because the lie is a counterfeit and looks like the real is still giving credence to a lie. continued from #39.
 
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JIMINZ

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No. The reality is that when we sin, we sin with the whole of our being; we are responsible for what we do. Giving credence to a lie saying there is a reality to it because the lie is a counterfeit and looks like the real is still giving credence to a lie. continued from #39.

Totally new concept.

The whole of our being is dead.

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
 
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justbyfaith

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That's more like it. What it is is that we are made new in our spirit-man (made alive in Christ) in that the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts. The soul is sanctified inasmuch as it obeys the love that is infused into the new nature. The body is sanctified in that the flesh is crucified, the element of sin within us is rendered dead.
 
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JIMINZ

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That's more like it. What it is is that we are made new in our spirit-man (made alive in Christ) in that the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts. The soul is sanctified inasmuch as it obeys the love that is infused into the new nature. The body is sanctified in that the flesh is crucified, the element of sin within us is rendered dead.


Are you able to provide any verses on "The Spirit Man"?

It sounds as though you are only looking at it in a Spiritual sense, rather than the event of our being Born Again of the Spirit is in fact a reality.

For when I say, "I am dead in Christ", I mean I am truly "DEAD" in Christ.
Just as much as anyone who is in the grave.
 
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justbyfaith

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Just to say that in 1 Thessalonians 5:23, we are sanctified spirit and soul and body. If we are in Christ we are one Spirit/spirit with Him, 1 Corinthians 6:17. What this means is that we are filled with all the fulness of His love. Ephesians 3:16-20, 1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16.
 
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Eloy Craft

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The point of the article is to show that nobody can do anything to effect salvation, nor detract from it. One who is reborn will "desire and do His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13), and if this become inconsistent (lack the desire and doing), God is not in them as they have yet to be reborn!
Hello brother! Please don't get me wrong here because I don't question your faith in Christ. You should take a look at the 'no true Scotsman' logical fallacy.

Your logical fallacy is no true scotsman

quote:
In this form of faulty reasoning one's belief is rendered unfalsifiable because no matter how compelling the evidence is, one simply shifts the goalposts so that it wouldn't apply to a supposedly 'true' example. This kind of post-rationalization is a way of avoiding valid criticisms of one's argument. end quote


The apostles said something that sounds like the argument you are making but it wasn't in reference to Christian disciples of whom some may not be counted worthy. These are who you apply the argument to. That's not who the Apostles were applying the argument to. They didn't describe those who may not be counted worthy as "they are not of us". That's because that determination was up to Jesus on the last day.

They were referring to people who were infiltrating the Church and unambiguously fit the description "they are not of us".

The early Church suffered Jewish infiltrators that intended to destroy the gospel message by adulterating the teaching with clever adaptations of Jewish theology. The Church at that time was a Jewish sect within the Jewish religion. The Jewish converts were vulnerable to the arguments of the Jewish infiltrators.

These same Jews were singled out among the Christians (who were all Jewish at this time) with Peter when Gentiles were ushered into the Church.

Acts 10
44 While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter said, 47 “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

Note, since there were no Gentiles among them, all believers were circumcised at that time, yet there are some called out as circumcised believers

The Jewish infiltrators are named "the circumcision". Peter feared them because he knew he was dealing with the wolves in sheeps clothing. His way of dealing with them was obviously hypocritical to Gentile Christians, not so much to Jewish Christians and completely hidden from the circumcision group.

Galatians 2
12 For before that certain came from James, he ate with the Gentiles; but when they came, he drew back and separated himself, fearing them that were of the circumcision.
13 And the rest of the Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that even Barnabas was carried away with their dissimulation.


and again;

29 I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

The Apostles were referring to a group that it could really be said "they are not of us". Wouldn't you agree that you aren't referring to the same type of group within the Church as the Apostles were? If so, then you would have to agree that the way you apply the argument is not biblical.
 
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sdowney717

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We are right now seated in heavenly places in Christ.
So we are perfected in the Spirit of our newborn spirit. it is the body and mind , the mind is a part of the flesh of the body that is yet to be redeemed.
The redemption of the body has not yet happened, right now the body is dead because of sin, read Romans 8.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.


and the body will not be redeemed until the resurrection. BUT you are in the SPIRIT right now ALIVE in the SPIRIT, so then that part is redeemed unto God.

Romans 8:22-24 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?

1 Corinthians 15:42
So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.

But for the spirit of the new man it has been redeemed by the Lord since we are new creations in Christ right now, real time.

Ephesians 4:17
[ The New Man ] This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Ephesians 4:24
and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Colossians 3:10
and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him,

Ephesians 2

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
 
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sdowney717

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Our present reality, to what have we come, to what situation?
Hebrews 12

18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned or shot with an arrow.” 21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

this is our current reality of being seated with Christ in heavenly places, we are the spirits of justified men made perfect. The body (and mind) are still dead in sin, it is the spirit that is made alive, FIRST, then comes the resurrection of the body later in the age of the resurrection.

God has already justified you in Christ.
Romans 3:25-27 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
 
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WordSword

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The apostles said something that sounds like the argument you are making but it wasn't in reference to Christian disciples of whom some may not be counted worthy. These are who you apply the argument to. That's not who the Apostles were applying the argument to. They didn't describe those who may not be counted worthy as "they are not of us". That's because that determination was up to Jesus on the last day.
Hi EC, and thanks for your reply and input! I just need to let you know that most of what you presented is difficult for me to understand what is trying to be taught. But if you indicate Scripture for discussion I can reply with my opinion. Thanks!

God bless!
 
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Ron Gurley

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Christ-followers are never 100% "Completely Conformed " to the spiritual image of God the Son during the Sanctification Process!

Colossians 1:15
He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Hebrews 12 [ Jesus, the Example ]
Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us (saved believers),
let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. ...

1 Peter 2:21 [ Christ Is Our Example ]
For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,

??in our spirit being. we have been fully “conformed to the image of His Son” ??


Romans 8 (NASB)...Believers are Delivered from the Bondage of Sin at Salvation; their Sin Natures remain
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life IN Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God DID:
sending His own Son in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh and as an (SELF) offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God,
to those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30 and these whom He predestined, He also called;
and these whom He called, He also justified;
and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Colossians 3: (NASB)
5 Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to
immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.
6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience,
7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them.
8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.
9 Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,
10 and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him
— 11 a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, Cbarbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.
12 So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;
13 bearing with one another, and
forgiving each other,
whoever has a complaint against anyone;
just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.
14 Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity.
15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.
16 Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you,
with all wisdom teaching and admonishing [r]one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
17 Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.

2 Peter 1
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises,
so that by them you may BECOME partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence,
in your faith supply moral excellence,
and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
6 and in your knowledge, self-control,
and in your self-control, perseverance,
and in your perseverance, godliness,
7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness,
and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you;
for as long as you PRACTICE these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
 
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justbyfaith

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Concerning the redemption of the body, it is defined as the adoption in Romans 8:23.

In Romans 8:24-25, this is shown to be something hoped for and not seen.

Yet in Hebrews 11:1, Faith is the SUBSTANCE OF things hoped for, and the EVIDENCE OF things not seen.

In Galatians 4:5-7, the adoption is something given to the Galatians past tense.

Therefore, for some who live in this world, the adoption, the redemption of the body is past and present tense.

1 Thessalonians 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and BODY be preserved blameless UNTO the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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Eloy Craft

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Hi EC, and thanks for your reply and input! I just need to let you know that most of what you presented is difficult for me to understand what is trying to be taught. But if you indicate Scripture for discussion I can reply with my opinion. Thanks!

God bless!
WordSword, I'm sorry. It's not you. I didn't do a good job of writing. Yours in Christ.
 
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WordSword

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Christ-followers are never 100% "Completely Conformed " to the spiritual image of God the Son during the Sanctification Process!
The "conformation" is that which makes us one with God--"the new man" (new nature), Whose creator is the Spirit of God. This places the believer in the spiritual perfection of the Lord Jesus because the new nature is created after the image of Christ (Col 3:10; Eph 4:24). The believer is perfect in standing, while continuing to mature in Christ's image in our walk, which will not be complete or perfected until redemption day.
 
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