Competition to prove the supernatural/paranormal?

[JohnClay]

One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge - Wikipedia

"The One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge was an offer by the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) to pay out one million U.S. dollars to anyone who could demonstrate a supernatural or paranormal ability under agreed-upon scientific testing criteria. A version of the challenge was first issued in 1964. Over a thousand people applied to take it, but none were successful. The challenge was terminated in 2015."

The "amazing Randi" is a late/dead atheist illusionist/magician.... he was able to prove that the evidence just involved magic tricks by putting certain conditions on the contestants so that they can't get their trick to work...
e.g. (jump to the 3:56 minute point)

My explanation thread:

A God who can't be proven?

"...I think all evidence of God [and the supernatural] can also explained by coincidence, delusion, or hallucinations..."

It seems to be quite an unusual belief since I do believe in a subtly communicating intelligent force.

I was wondering what Christians would think about the competition.... couldn't an occultist perform a supernatural/paranormal act?

Or is it related to this? Is the devil making sure people's demonic abilities can't be proven?

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist"

There's also an Australian version of the competition:
The $100,000 Challenge

 

[Subduction Zone]

One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge - Wikipedia

"The One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge was an offer by the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) to pay out one million U.S. dollars to anyone who could demonstrate a supernatural or paranormal ability under agreed-upon scientific testing criteria. A version of the challenge was first issued in 1964. Over a thousand people applied to take it, but none were successful. The challenge was terminated in 2015."

The "amazing Randi" is a late/dead atheist illusionist/magician.... he was able to prove that the evidence just involved magic tricks by putting certain conditions on the contestants so that they can't get their trick to work...
e.g. (jump to the 3:56 minute point)

My explanation thread:

A God who can't be proven?

"...I think all evidence of God [and the supernatural] can also explained by coincidence, delusion, or hallucinations..."

It seems to be quite an unusual belief since I do believe in a subtly communicating intelligent force.

I was wondering what Christians would think about the competition.... couldn't an occultist perform a supernatural/paranormal act?

Or is it related to this? Is the devil making sure people's demonic abilities can't be proven?

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist"

There's also an Australian version of the competition:
The $100,000 Challenge

Don't tell Randi that he is dead. The shock might kill him.

 

[Radagast]

Don't tell Randi that he is dead. The shock might kill him.

He must be over 90 by now.

Of course, it's also possible that he is indeed dead, and that the apparently living James Randi is simply Randi's greatest (posthumous) magic trick.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He must be over 90 by now.

Of course, it's also possible that he is indeed dead, and that the apparently living James Randi is simply Randi's greatest (posthumous) magic trick.

Yep, 91 years old. But I like the way that you think

 

[cloudyday2]

I don't know the specific requirements of Randi's challenge, but by its nature it seems to exclude a lot of potential experiences of paranormal and supernatural.

For example, let's say a poltergeist begins throwing dishes and cutlery around my kitchen in the presence of me and another person. We can leave the stuff laying where it landed and take pictures like it is a crime scene. That would be pretty convincing evidence for me and the other person present. It might even convince some people who know and trust one of us. If one of us had a phone and recorded a movie of flying dishes then it might convince some more people. Unfortunately none of that would probably meet the requirements of Randi's challenge. The poltergeist would need to do it all over again for Randi's investigators, and that is asking too much of most poltergeists I assume.

Spells and psychic capabilities are different, because in theory they are sometimes believed to be entirely a result of the person with the talent. In practice though, it seems that spellcasters and psychics don't claim to be able to get results consistently. Sometimes the capabilities are claimed to work and sometimes they don't. Even when the capabilities are claimed to work the results are often ambiguous. If a spellcaster blesses a person in the presence of Randi's investigators, and the next day that person wins millions in a lottery, it still wouldn't satisfy the requirements of Randi's challenge. Most spellcasters probably wouldn't claim to know the exact form that a blessing will take and when the blessing will happen. A spellcaster's clients would need to consistently win the lottery so that Randi's investigators could apply statistics and determine a confidence interval for the spellcaster's lottery blessing powers.

 

[Tolworth John]

.I think all evidence of God [and the supernatural] can also explained by coincidence, delusion, or hallucinations..."

What a shame that so many academic professional historians disagree with you over Jesus's death, burial and resurrection.
But go ahead let us have your xplanation of the above.

 

[JohnClay]

What a shame that so many academic professional historians disagree with you over Jesus's death, burial and resurrection.
But go ahead let us have your xplanation of the above.

I'm not saying that the resurrection of Jesus never happened - I'm saying that atheists could say that it just involved hallucinations, etc.

 

[JohnClay]

....If a spellcaster blesses a person in the presence of Randi's investigators, and the next day that person wins millions in a lottery, it still wouldn't satisfy the requirements of Randi's challenge.

From the Australian contest:
The $100,000 Challenge
".....The challenger must beat million to one odds against a chance result...."

 

[cloudyday2]

From the Australian contest:
The $100,000 Challenge
".....The challenger must beat million to one odds against a chance result...."

I'm not familiar with that expression. Does it mean the skeptics have very high statistical requirements or very low statistical requirements?

 

[JohnClay]

I'm not familiar with that expression. Does it mean the skeptics have very high statistical requirements or very low statistical requirements?

Very high...
e.g. (Zener cards)

There is a 1 in 5 chance that people would guess the right card.
To guess 9 in a row correctly is a 1 in 1,900,000 chance...

 

[cloudyday2]

Very high...
e.g. (Zener cards)
There is a 1 in 5 chance that people would guess the right card.
To guess 9 in a row correctly is a 1 in 1,900,000 chance...

O.k., thanks. Now the sentence makes sense. I thought it was an expression like "beating around the bush" or "deader than a door nail". LOL

 

[Caliban]

What a shame that so many academic professional historians disagree with you over Jesus's death, burial and resurrection.
But go ahead let us have your xplanation of the above.

So many...not any have published findings in peer review journals that provide evidence of a resurrection from the dead. A lot to the contrary however. They publish those books and articles in Christian publishing houses and websites. Go on JSTOR or EBSCO and search for them--you'll get frustrated by the liberal and secular avalanche of information.

 

[cloudyday2]

@JohnClay , I have experienced things that seem like precognition or clairvoyance, but it is never a guess. I have a sudden feeling of giddiness and amusement, because I have essentially broken the rules and reminded myself that there is more than the natural world. The giddiness and amusement actually comes BEFORE I have any confirmation that I am correct. Essentially I already know that I am correct, so I feel the thrill and gloating of being correct before the event instead of after. I don't think I have ever been wrong when I feel that weird feeling, but it comes out of the blue and is useless knowledge.

So the classic experiments where one person looks at a Zener card and the other person "guesses" what the other person is seeing is not the correct way to test. If what I experience is genuine precognition or clairvoyance then it doesn't work like that at all. Maybe a person can train to be more open to paranormal, but it isn't an act of will by the psychic IMO.

 

[Tolworth John]

I'm not saying that the resurrection of Jesus never happened - I'm saying that atheists could say that it just involved hallucinations, etc.

Please talk to your doctor about mass hallucinations. As you are not going to accept my statement that what you have written is nonsence. People experience their own hallucination they do not share them.

All the attempts to explain away the death and resurrection become unreal and ridiculous when one examines them.

Jesus only swooned. Duh An experienced Roman soldier who was at risk of being executed if a condemned man escaped, made sure Jesus was dead by ramming a spear deep into his chest cavity.

That shows that is nonsence.

Someone was exceuted Innis place by mistake! How, he was betrayed by a close companion who knew him, and held securely untill dead. How was a man beaten half to death going to be mistaken for the unfortunate who was press ganged into carrying his cross?

He had a twin who pretended to be Jesus and to have risen from the dead. Yeah and he made hole in himself to simulate being crucified and knew all about the disciples so could carry on conversations began prior to the crucifixion, Peter and his denial.
How did he disapear from there sight, suddenly appear or disappear as reported in the gospels.
Believable, no.

The simplist explanation is that Jesus was brutally exceuted, that he rose from the dead and appeared to the disciples. That he also prophercised that this would happen as well as doing it means he is what he claimed to be. God.

 

[JohnClay]

Please talk to your doctor about mass hallucinations. As you are not going to accept my statement that what you have written is nonsence. People experience their own hallucination they do not share them.

I said some atheists would say the sightings of Jesus are hallucinations. Should they also see a doctor? I think it could have been a mistaken identity - e.g.
V: Jesus in Nairobi, Kenya, 1988

What about the actual topic of this thread? Why was no-one able to demonstrate supernatural/paranormal abilities?

 

[Caliban]

I said some atheists would say the sightings of Jesus are hallucinations. Should they also see a doctor? I think it could have been a mistaken identity - e.g.
V: Jesus in Nairobi, Kenya, 1988

What about the actual topic of this thread? Why was no-one able to demonstrate supernatural/paranormal abilities?

I think it is clear--they are not real.