Community & loniliness

[GingerBeer]

In the bible people still lived in communities and didn't move around a lot. For them the church was a community too. It was first a local community like a village or a town and second a community of common beliefs and behaviours. When the bible is read it's good to remember that community was the norm both locally because people didn't move from town to town and church to church a lot and theologically because the church was people who all believed in Jesus.

Now it is different because the local community aspect of life has changed. Only some people remain in the same village or town for their whole lifetime. Many move from town to town and from church to church. Because of moving around people lose their community to a degree. Their church experience is affected by that. Their local church will be local only for a while and then they will move on and the same is true for a high proportion of the other people in their local church. In this way the experience of people today is unlike the experience written about in the bible.

People get lonely when they lose their community. Loneliness is common it is said. Churches may be reflecting that in their teaching. The expectation of a stable membership who not only have faith in common but also have their local community in common is gone for many members. How is this affecting theology I wonder?

If a Christian wanders from one town to another and one congregation to another maybe even one denomination to another will their perspective on what it is important to believe and right to do be changed?

 

[Dave-W]

So is “moving around” what God really wants for us? I don’t think so.

 

[Roidecoeur78]

"The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." John 3:8

Doesn't sound like sedentary state, but then it would have been out of the status quo to travel far or wide. By today's standards the persons that will never leave their state are still a considerable amount, but probably not the norm. And the majority of people that go far and wide, to seek adventure, or fortune, or to choose their preferred environment and their own idea of community, still "settle down" into a sedentary lifestyle of regular characters and routines if and when they can.

 

[devin553344]

I moved around a lot when I was younger. Was in the military and then traveled around California cities with different Jobs until I met my wife. Now I pretty much stay to myself in my community because the people here are trouble. But I can still go to church where the people are nice Thank God for Christianity.

 

[GingerBeer]

So is “moving around” what God really wants for us? I don’t think so.

Perhaps refusing a promotion or a new and more interesting job but at the cost of moving to a new town and losing community in the process is a sacrifice Christians are called to consider?

 

[GingerBeer]

"The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." John 3:8

Do you think that Jesus' words from John 3:8 are about Christians moving around from town to town like the wind?

 

[Dave-W]

Perhaps refusing a promotion or a new and more interesting job but at the cost of moving to a new town and losing community in the process is a sacrifice Christians are called to consider?

I would say so. I would count it the same as you taking a job in California and your spouse taking a job in Chicago or New York. You just don’t do that. Your relationships in the body are almost as important as with your spouse.

 

[Dave-W]

Do you think that Jesus' words from John 3:8 are about Christians moving around from town to town like the wind?

No. It is talking about motivations that are unseen by non-church folk.

 

[Roidecoeur78]

Do you think that Jesus' words from John 3:8 are about Christians moving around from town to town like the wind?

It's not stated as that explicitly, though it may include that.

Where was Paul from? Where did he go? How long was the longest he stayed anywhere? Did the apostles stay with their families doing their daily grinds because they were more concerned with "making a living" and providing meals for their families, or were they made free from earthly expectations and obligations to go where they were told by a higher Calling? Yet they had community.

 

[Paidiske]

People get lonely when they lose their community. Loneliness is common it is said. Churches may be reflecting that in their teaching. The expectation of a stable membership who not only have faith in common but also have their local community in common is gone for many members. How is this affecting theology I wonder?

I'm not sure about how it's affecting theology, but I do notice that it is negatively affecting mission. Historically, (in my denomination, at least), there would have been an understanding that a local church had responsibility to reach its local community with the gospel, and with service to those in need, and so on. Now I am finding that some local churches don't feel that responsibility, and want to carve an identity which draws people to that church in different ways (eg. by being "the social justice church" or "the amazing music church" or whatever). And the local community suffers for it as nobody takes seriously the responsibility to engage with every home, school, business and community group in that area to build relationships in which the good news might be shared.

 

[bèlla]

Perhaps refusing a promotion or a new and more interesting job but at the cost of moving to a new town and losing community in the process is a sacrifice Christians are called to consider?

I don't think that should be the case without a clear word from the Lord and confirmation through wise counsel. We can't anticipate what the future holds but God knows.

 

[bling]

In the bible people still lived in communities and didn't move around a lot. For them the church was a community too. It was first a local community like a village or a town and second a community of common beliefs and behaviours. When the bible is read it's good to remember that community was the norm both locally because people didn't move from town to town and church to church a lot and theologically because the church was people who all believed in Jesus.

Now it is different because the local community aspect of life has changed. Only some people remain in the same village or town for their whole lifetime. Many move from town to town and from church to church. Because of moving around people lose their community to a degree. Their church experience is affected by that. Their local church will be local only for a while and then they will move on and the same is true for a high proportion of the other people in their local church. In this way the experience of people today is unlike the experience written about in the bible.

People get lonely when they lose their community. Loneliness is common it is said. Churches may be reflecting that in their teaching. The expectation of a stable membership who not only have faith in common but also have their local community in common is gone for many members. How is this affecting theology I wonder?

If a Christian wanders from one town to another and one congregation to another maybe even one denomination to another will their perspective on what it is important to believe and right to do be changed?

Paul seemed to move around a lot?

 

[dzheremi]

The majority of my particular Church is poor farmers in Upper (Southern) Egypt. They probably don't move very much. In fact, I was told that one of the reasons why we developed such long and intricate services for Holy Week is that by that time of the year they would be in between planting and harvesting so there wasn't much to do while you waited, so people would just gather in their local churches for the entire week...sleep there and everything! I'm not sure how true that is, but it's actually not far off from how things have been for me during that week, too, because we would get 'out' of services in the night, say 8 pm or so (I don't remember exactly, at the moment), but then be due back by 11 pm for the next service. So I would just go to a friend from church's house and take a nap on the couch and then they would wake me up when it was time to go back to the church. It was nice to have that, I guess.

Oh, and kind of related to career moves and such: by the time I was applying to grad schools I made sure to zero in on ones that had Coptic churches in town. So I moved 1,200 miles (~1,931 km, for our metric friends) away from where I was living, but on the upside I got to actually go to church, after +/- 3 years of wanting to! I wasn't able to do that when I moved to where I currently live, for personal reasons I'd rather not discuss here. It is lonely. I wouldn't say it's affected my theology, though. Theologically, nearly everywhere on the internet and in life is lonely for non-Chalcedonians. Ho hum. You pay for 3 councils, you get 3 councils. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I wouldn't complain, since theology is truly not a popularity contest. I would worry, however, if I were in the kind of church that is heavily dependent on whoever comes through the door for its theology, however. The Presbyterian congregation I was raised in eventually fell prey to that when I was very young, after our previous very orthodox pastor retired due to age. It went in a very short period of time from being a traditional mainline church, to being a revivalist-type church, to being one of those 'new style' (well...new for c. 1990, I guess?) evangelical-ish churches with a hip young pastor team who were husband and wife. I don't think most people liked that, so many left, including my mother. But that's not loneliness...just a lack of foresight. Still I think it's a very similar principle, isn't it? If you are not theologically rooted, then you will wander around and always be lonely. You could move across the country every few years and always feel at home, theologically, if you have that theology in your own marrow. Then it's just a matter of finding and connecting with others in the same boat, I'd think.

 

[GingerBeer]

It's not stated as that explicitly, though it may include that.

Where was Paul from?

Tarsus.

Where did he go?

Rome.

How long was the longest he stayed anywhere?

About a decade, I think, in the surrounds of Damascus.

Did the apostles stay with their families

Most were not married and even Peter who was married appears to be a widower.

doing their daily grinds because they were more concerned with "making a living" and providing meals for their families, or were they made free from earthly expectations and obligations to go where they were told by a higher Calling? Yet they had community.

I do not think that any of the apostles abandoned wife and children.

 

[Paidiske]

Most were not married and even Peter who was married appears to be a widower.

1 Corinthians 9:5? Was Peter not accompanied by his wife?

 

[GingerBeer]

I'm not sure about how it's affecting theology, but I do notice that it is negatively affecting mission. Historically, (in my denomination, at least), there would have been an understanding that a local church had responsibility to reach its local community with the gospel, and with service to those in need, and so on. Now I am finding that some local churches don't feel that responsibility, and want to carve an identity which draws people to that church in different ways (eg. by being "the social justice church" or "the amazing music church" or whatever). And the local community suffers for it as nobody takes seriously the responsibility to engage with every home, school, business and community group in that area to build relationships in which the good news might be shared.

Does it also affect the church's self image as a community?

 

[GingerBeer]

1 Corinthians 9:5? Was Peter not accompanied by his wife?

It's hard to tell if if Paul is asserting that he as much as any other has such a right or if he is asserting his right because the others are already exercising such a right without any adverse comment.

 

[Paidiske]

Does it also affect the church's self image as a community?

Yes, I think so.

I think of my parish, for example, where we have a couple who drive for an hour and a half (or more, depending on traffic) to come, driving past many other churches of our denomination, because they have a sense of the particularity of this parish which resonates with them.

Frankly, from my point of view, it's really unhelpful; they're not connected in locally, they're not easily able to cultivate relationships or be involved in community connections, or the like; it would make sense for them to pick a church close to where they live. But instead, the fact that they (and others, at less distance but with a similar attitude) do that, distorts our sense of what church community should be.

If that makes sense?

As to Peter's wife, it's hard for me to fathom that Paul would cite a hypothetical wife as precedent for his own rights.

 

[GingerBeer]

I don't think that should be the case without a clear word from the Lord and confirmation through wise counsel. We can't anticipate what the future holds but God knows.

I agree but I wonder how one knows that they've received a clear word from God and that the council they've received is wise if it gives impetus to separate from the community you are already in. The apostle Paul and Barnabas were called to missionary work rather than called to a better job in a distant town that they later took to be a missions opportunity.

 

[GingerBeer]

Paul seemed to move around a lot?

Yes, and Paul says he moved around as the Holy Spirit led him. His work was as a Christian missionary. Paul did not go from town to town looking for the best tent making role he could fill and then say that his job was making a missionary out of him.