Communion/Lord's Supper

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Good questions:

Communion is two memorials established by Christ for Christians to bring to memory: Christ’s crucifixion and shedding of Christ’s blood.

It really only has benefit for saved baptized adult Christians, although it can be somewhat of a witness to nonbelievers.

The bread is in remembrance of Christ’s body tortured, humiliated and murdered on the cross:

Christian look back at the cross with mixed emotions; the Christian out of empathy will be crucified with Christ at the taking of the bread, but instead of dropping to their knees unable to stand, there is also the greatest Love possible being experienced, so the Christian has an overwhelming feeling of forgiveness.

Throughout the Old Testament blood and water was used to cleanse stuff, but the blood of animals was used to cleanse the objects that were really to be holy. Christians today need to feel, know, experience not only an outward cleansing (like what was done with animal blood in the OT), but feel/experience the blood flowing over their heart. From Christ pray in the Garden prior to the cross we know Christ personally did not want his blood shed and God in heave out of empathy for His son would not personally wanted that blood to remain in Christ’s veins. It is I, who need to know the blood is out of Christ’s body and available to me to be poured over my heart and cleanse my heart. The wine, represents that blood, thus allows me to take it in and experience/feel it flow down my throat and over my heart literally. I can know I am cleansed.

As far as communion frequency: when the church was first established Acts 2:46 they seemed to meet daily and the breaking of bread seems to refer to the communion. Most today are not in the rapid Spiritual growth situation early church situation, so may meet less frequent. You could make a case for the Christians coming together Sunday and have communion at that time.

Christians cannot determine who is saved and who is not saved so it is hard to set rules for those coming together not to all be able to take communion.
 
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Albion

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Purpose(s)?
Who should?
How to?
When to?
How often to?

I would like to learn more about Communion.
Thank you :)
Hi, SL. The answers to this depend, to a great extent, on which kind of POV and denomination we associate with--the traditional or the memorialist. The latter is mainly associated with Anabaptist, Baptist, and similar churches. I'll give the answers from the first of these, which is more-or-less the way the majority of Christians see it.

Who should? Christ, at the Last Supper, seemed to indicate that it was for all disciples, therefore, all churchmen and women. This is the view taken by the first churches. The question remains as to whether this was for all people who show up at the church for worship or, OTOH, if it is for only baptized members. The Bible isn't clear about that, except that we're warned to be in the right frame of mind when communing, so the early church thought that this was a very special act, a "sacrament," to be guarded. As a result, it was not be made available to all people without distinction. We are less concerned about this today when the church service doesn't have to be guarded against the police of a pagan and decidedly anti-Christian government like the Roman Empire.

The rule was to allow only baptized members to be present at that time of the worship service. Since, however, there is a disagreement about whether to baptize infants or only older people who've made a profession of faith, there's still that dispute.

How to? Bread and wine are standard, but some churches use leavened bread and others unleavened. Symbolism aside, the main difference there concerns whether the Last Supper was a Passover meal or had only been intended to be one but actually wasn't one. A good argument can be made on either side of that argument. Whether it is to be placed into the communicant's mouth or given to him to eat and drink is less an issue than some of the other aspects of the sacrament/ordinance.

When to? How often to? Jesus said, "as oft as you...." so it's administered weekly or even daily in some churches but only monthly in others and only quarterly in many. The argument there comes down to whether one's church thinks that it's so beneficial and special that frequent communion is a good idea...or if OTOH taking it too frequently leads to taking it for granted.
 
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sunlover1

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Hi, SL. The answers to this depend, to a great extent, on which kind of POV and denomination we associate with--the traditional or the memorialist. The latter is mainly associated with Anabaptist, Baptist, and similar churches. I'll give the answers from the first of these, which is more-or-less the way the majority of Christians see it.
Hi Albion.
Thanks for your contribution. Yes, I know that the P'sOV differ. (You know where i stand on that) but I thought if we
studied the Scriptures on it maybe we could come to some revelations. See, I always just did what they said when I was Catholic, then again when I went protestant. Now that I'm Christian only and SS (as you know) I want to do it, not RC's way, not CRC's way, not the Methodist's or Baptist's way, but God's way.

Who should? Christ, at the Last Supper, seemed to indicate that it was for all disciples, therefore, all churchmen and women. This is the view taken by the first churches. The question remains as to whether this was for all people who show up at the church for worship or, OTOH, if it is for only baptized members. The Bible isn't clear about that,
If the Bible is silent, we do well to stay that way too.
IF, we'll see what other's have found.

except that we're warned to be in the right frame of mind when communing, so the early church thought that this was a very special act, a "sacrament," to be guarded.
The "right frame of mind" is indeed reverent and yet, that's not "exactly" what He said, but yes, a very special act.
Certainly Christ doesn't need guarding though. IMO>
It does say to "let a man examine "HIMSELF" .. so that's what we should probably do.

As a result, it was not be made available to all people without distinction. We are less concerned about this today when the church service doesn't have to be guarded against the police of a pagan and decidedly anti-Christian government like the Roman Empire.
That's not what I've found around these here parts! lol
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/can-closed-communion-be-pleasing-to-god-2.7727077/

The rule was to allow only baptized members to be present at that time of the worship service. Since, however, there is a disagreement about whether to baptize infants or only older people who've made a profession of faith, there's still that dispute.
So... maybe no babes should get to receive communion.
Jesus is known to say to bring on the kids.

How to? Bread and wine are standard, but some churches use leavened bread and others unleavened. Symbolism aside, the main difference there concerns whether the Last Supper was a Passover meal or had only been intended to be one but actually wasn't one. A good argument can be made on either side of that argument. Whether it is to be placed into the communicant's mouth or given to him to eat and drink is less an issue than some of the other aspects of the sacrament/ordinance.
I received communion at a catholic church couple times last year and they put it in your hand now.
(Yes, I know, my bad. God overrules priests and He told me to "Do this in remembrance of Me" so
i did. sigh) The homily just happened to be about unity in the body of Christ.

When to? How often to? Jesus said, "as oft as you...." so it's administered weekly or even daily in some churches but only monthly in others and only quarterly in many. The argument there comes down to whether one's church thinks that it's so beneficial and special that frequent communion is a good idea...or if OTOH taking it too frequently leads to taking it for granted.
And those are good things to consider!
I guess, though, if He said, "as oft as" we better let HIm worry about us taking Him
for granted. Heck, we do take Him for granted in many ways.. imo.

Thanks for the great response Albion!
You really know your stuff!
:)
 
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Albion

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Hi Albion.
Thanks for your contribution. Yes, I know that the P'sOV differ. (You know where i stand on that) but I thought if we
studied the Scriptures on it maybe we could come to some revelations.
I know you, and I know that you're not some inquirer for whom Christianity is a totally new subject. But when I decide to take on a list of questions that come without any commentary that points to what the poster already believes about any of them, I just answer each as though I were talking to a stranger and avoid personalizing my answers. It's just a technique, you understand. ;)

Thanks for the great response Albion!
You really know your stuff!
:)
Thank you.
 
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sunlover1

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I know you, and I know that you're not some inquirer for whom Christianity is a totally new subject. But when I decide to take on a list of questions that come without any commentary that points to what the poster already believes about any of them, I just answer each as though I were talking to a stranger and avoid personalizing my answers. It's just a technique, you understand. ;)


Thank you.
lol. Well, I am always searching for more insight and revelation!
I used to pray to Mary, now I feel that isn't necessary or beneficial.
(Just my own opinion :) )
Posting and reading here keeps me in the Word more...
And you're right! These posts will be read for YEARS to come!
So, a lot of young men and women will likely be blessed by you.
:thumbsup:
I just searched threads that I started and oy vey! Makes me
want to go back and edit some stuff. Gosh we're old timers here!
LOL:sunglasses:
 
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Albion

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I just searched threads that I started and oy vey! Makes me
want to go back and edit some stuff.
Isn't that the truth? :doh: I find that, when someone replies to a dormant thread, to something I wrote only a couple of months earlier, I often don't recognize my own words or what the conversation was all about.

Gosh we're old timers here!
LOL:sunglasses:
Yep. Hard to believe, isn't it?
 
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sunlover1

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Isn't that the truth? :doh: I find that, when someone replies to a dormant thread, to something I wrote only a couple of months earlier, I often don't recognize my own words or what the conversation was all about.
I know! what's up with that? I would say it's old age creeping in but it can't be because years ago I'd do that. I'd read something quite eloquent and be shocked that I had written it. (No wonder I liked it LOL)


Yep. Hard to believe, isn't it?
But I'm a young babe on the inside darn it! ;)

I actually started this thread primarily with the desire to find "purpose" for the Lord's Supper.
Some say this and some say that. But isn't the actual "purpose" of communion that we
remember that God made a blood covenant with us?
 
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sunlover1

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Good questions:

Communion is two memorials established by Christ for Christians to bring to memory: Christ’s crucifixion and shedding of Christ’s blood.
Thanks bling!
(Good to see some familiar "faces" btw!)
So it's all about "blood" right?
The life is in the blood...

It really only has benefit for saved baptized adult Christians,
What about babies or unbaptized believers
Which baptism do you mean?

The bread is in remembrance of Christ’s body tortured, humiliated and murdered on the cross:

Christian look back at the cross with mixed emotions; the Christian out of empathy will be crucified with Christ at the taking of the bread, but instead of dropping to their knees unable to stand, there is also the greatest Love possible being experienced, so the Christian has an overwhelming feeling of forgiveness.

Throughout the Old Testament blood and water was used to cleanse stuff, but the blood of animals was used to cleanse the objects that were really to be holy. Christians today need to feel, know, experience not only an outward cleansing (like what was done with animal blood in the OT), but feel/experience the blood flowing over their heart. From Christ pray in the Garden prior to the cross we know Christ personally did not want his blood shed and God in heave out of empathy for His son would not personally wanted that blood to remain in Christ’s veins. It is I, who need to know the blood is out of Christ’s body and available to me to be poured over my heart and cleanse my heart. The wine, represents that blood, thus allows me to take it in and experience/feel it flow down my throat and over my heart literally. I can know I am cleansed.
This is really beautiful...
The part about Him not wanting the blood to remain in His veins confuses me though...

As far as communion frequency: when the church was first established Acts 2:46 they seemed to meet daily and the breaking of bread seems to refer to the communion. Most today are not in the rapid Spiritual growth situation early church situation, so may meet less frequent. You could make a case for the Christians coming together Sunday and have communion at that time.
...in like manner also the cup after the supping, saying,
'This cup is the new covenant in my blood;
this do ye, as often as ye may drink it --
to the remembrance of me;'

Youngs ^
Looks like we have no need to worry about overdoing...
unless I'm missing something.

Christians cannot determine who is saved and who is not saved so it is hard to set rules for those coming together not to all be able to take communion.
:clap::clap::clap:
 
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Albion

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I actually started this thread primarily with the desire to find "purpose" for the Lord's Supper.
Some say this and some say that. But isn't the actual "purpose" of communion that we
remember that God made a blood covenant with us
?
Most would say 'no.'

If one holds to the Baptistic--Pentecostal--Fundamentalist view in which the ordinance is strictly symbolic and a memorial, this ^ explanation or something close to it is very likely what you'd hear.

If a Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican/Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist, Reformed or Presbyterian (and some others) were answering the question--and giving the answer that accords with what those churches teach--the answer would agree with the memorial aspect but, also, refer to it as a sacrament, which means that it is an ordinance that imparts an assurance of God's forgiveness of one's sins, grants the communicant grace for daily living and a strengthening of his or her faith, and brings the person into a closer experience of God (it being the actual body and blood of Christ, although not necessarily the literal, carnal body and blood).
 
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sunlover1

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Most would say 'no.'

If one holds to the Baptistic--Pentecostal--Fundamentalist view in which the ordinance is strictly symbolic and a memorial, this ^ explanation or something close to it is very likely what you'd hear.

If a Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican/Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist, Reformed or Presbyterian (and some others) were answering the question--and giving the answer that accords with what those churches teach--the answer would agree with the memorial aspect but, also, refer to it as a sacrament, which means that it is an ordinance that imparts an assurance of God's forgiveness of one's sins, grants the communicant grace for daily living and a strengthening of his or her faith, and brings the person into a closer experience of God (it being the actual body and blood of Christ, although not necessarily the literal, carnal body and blood).
Some fancy footwork there Albion! :D
(trying to include everyone out there lol)
So which of the above is the Scriptural (only, no ST) impetus?
 
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Albion

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Some fancy footwork there Albion! :D
(trying to include everyone out there lol)
So which of the above is the Scriptural (only, no ST) impetus?
Well, you gave me one of those open-ended questions again, didn't you? ;) So I tried to cover everyone's answers.

However, if the question is just the one you asked here, exactly as it was asked:

"But isn't the actual "purpose" of communion that we
remember that God made a blood covenant with us
?"

I'd say, 'no.' I think that the majority of Christian churches that believe there's more to it than that are correct--judging by the Biblical record. For instance, Jesus not only said to "do this in remembrance" but he also said that it WAS his body and blood, not that it represented his body and blood. I know that some of the wording can be taken several different ways, which is why I don't like to sneer at other interpretations, even if I adhere to a certain one myself.

And there is little doubt that the first century church saw the "elements" as something more than just bread and wine being used as a memorial meal. That wouldn't be enough to determine the correct view if the Bible didn't give us any direction, but, as noted, it does.
 
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bling

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So it's all about "blood" right?
The life is in the blood...

My rebellious disobedience put the body of Christ on the cross, so it is more than just the blood. Christ’s body is the atonement sacrifice I need to have, while the blood (and this is true of the animal sacrifices in the OT) was not burned on the altar, but was used for cleansing.

What about babies or unbaptized believers
Which baptism do you mean?

I am thinking of water believer immersion baptism, this is another subject.

This is really beautiful...
The part about Him not wanting the blood to remain in His veins confuses me though...

It confused me to, it was a typo. God and Christ both personally wanted the blood to remain in Christ’s veins, it is I that want it out of his body and available for me.

...in like manner also the cup after the supping, saying,
'This cup is the new covenant in my blood;
this do ye, as often as ye may drink it --
to the remembrance of me;'

Youngs ^
Looks like we have no need to worry about overdoing...
unless I'm missing something.

People that do not understand the meaning for them specifically, behind the body and blood feel we should limit the number of times to keep it from becoming routine, but I do not see the problem (you can do it every time you come together with other Christians. The sermon topic of “Christ Crucified” (which is what the communion brings to mind) was huge for Paul: 1 Corinthians 2:2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
 
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