Communion/ Eucharist/Lord's Table

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus spoke and speaks frequently to His sheep without using but a word or two, simply. (no explanation needed nor wanted)

Without being sent by Yahweh, without understanding granted by Yahweh,
people's statements, posts, sermons and words are without profit.

I am always suspect of anyone who throws out verses ad infinitum without exegesis.

I could copy and paste swathes of scripture but without exegesis they are useless.

 

[Episaw]

Your rejection of the Sacraments and the grace which is available through them says otherwise. While there are still some things that preclude unity between the list of Churches that I mentioned above; the sacramental nature of Baptism, the Eucharist and Confession and Absolution are not among them.

In my bible it does not mention any of your list as anything to do with unity. What is does say is love one another. There is more grace in that than anything that man can invent.

 

[Dick Barton]

Jesus did hand pick twelve and only twelve for his first communion. So who is to say that he might be selective with who he would pick if he returned? Those twelve didn't have perfect theology though. And one of them apostasized moments later.

My guess is that we are in for a rude surprise when Jesus returns. Even those of us who are found acceptable will be found only barely acceptable.

As to receiving the Eucharist, I think the Anglican Ordinariate in the Catholic Church do it most reverently. You kneel. The priest places the host on your tongue. another priest comes around with the one cup and you take a sip. You don't 'take' but 'receive'.

Yes it will be a rude surprise because the New Testament Church did not celebrate communion. They met together to break bread which means having a meal. They did this to ensure everyone had a meal that day which was not always a given.

 

[Dick Barton]

I'm LCC, in fellowship with the LCMS.

This Sacrament was instituted by Christ, with clear instructions as to how it be administered; and clear instructions as to how it should be received, and how it should not be.

What is LCC and LCMS?

And where does Jesus give instructions on how it is to be administered and received?

 

[pescador]

Yes it will be a rude surprise because the New Testament Church did not celebrate communion. They met together to break bread which means having a meal. They did this to ensure everyone had a meal that day which was not always a given.

I agree with you 100%. It's too bad that others have so changed the ritual into some sort of religious (non-Biblical) rite.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Yes it will be a rude surprise because the New Testament Church did not celebrate communion.

News to me.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

What is LCC and LCMS?

And where does Jesus give instructions on how it is to be administered and received?

In all four Gospels, in the Epistles, in Acts. Lutheran Church Canada and Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.

We follow the tradition of the Early Church as we declare in the Augsburg Confession; Article XXIV:30-34; actually the whole of Articl XXIV; but that might be a bit much for someone unfamiliar with orthodox practice to comprehend.

30 But Christ commands us, Luke 22:19: This do in remembrance of Me; therefore the Mass was instituted that the faith of those who use the Sacrament should remember what benefits it receives through Christ, and cheer and comfort the anxious conscience. For to remember Christ is to remember His benefits,

31 and to realize that they are truly offered unto us.

32 Nor is it enough only to remember the history; for this also the Jews and the ungodly can remember.

33 Wherefore the Mass is to be used to this end, that there the Sacrament [Communion] may be administered to them that have need of consolation; as Ambrose says: Because I always sin, I am always bound to take the medicine. [Therefore this Sacrament requires faith, and is used in vain without faith.]

34 Now, forasmuch as the Mass is such a giving of the Sacrament, we hold one communion every holy-day, and, if any desire the Sacrament, also on other days, when it is given to such as ask for it.

 

[Dick Barton]

I agree with you 100%. It's too bad that others have so changed the ritual into some sort of religious (non-Biblical) rite.

Thankyou and I like your footnote.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Yes it will be a rude surprise because the New Testament Church did not celebrate communion. They met together to break bread which means having a meal. They did this to ensure everyone had a meal that day which was not always a given.

The Didache, which had been considered by some church fathers to be important but not canonical, and may have been written during the Apostolic Era, as early as the 90AD:

On the Lord’s day, when you have been gathered together, break bread and celebrate the Eucharist. But first confess your sins so that your offering may be pure.


Ignatius wrote sometime around 107-110 AD:

Especially [will I do this ] if the Lord make known to me that you come together man by man in common through grace, individually, in one faith, and in Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David according to the flesh, being both the Son of man and the Son of God, so that you obey the bishop and the presbytery with an undivided mind, breaking one and the same bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote to prevent us from dying, but [which causes] that we should live for ever in Jesus Christ.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Dear Dick,
Just to add on. Most likely you are correct that initially, the earliest church services were in the evening with a dinner being served. However, even by the end of the Apostolic Era, as evidenced by Ignatius and Justin Martyr, the Eucharist was separated from an evening meal to a service on the morning of Kyriaki, (the Lord's Day which is still the Greek name for the first day of the week) aka Sunday. Christianity spread initially in urban centers (some estimate the church grew at a rate of 40% per decade) and logistically, the earliest form of house church became obsolete. Plus holding a weekly banquet would definitely attract hostile authorities.

 

[Dick Barton]

The Didache, which had been considered by some church fathers to be important but not canonical, and may have been written during the Apostolic Era, as early as the 90AD:

On the Lord’s day, when you have been gathered together, break bread and celebrate the Eucharist. But first confess your sins so that your offering may be pure.


Ignatius wrote sometime around 107-110 AD:

Especially [will I do this ] if the Lord make known to me that you come together man by man in common through grace, individually, in one faith, and in Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David according to the flesh, being both the Son of man and the Son of God, so that you obey the bishop and the presbytery with an undivided mind, breaking one and the same bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote to prevent us from dying, but [which causes] that we should live for ever in Jesus Christ.

The conclusion that Ignatius drew is not in scripture so I will give it a miss

 

[Dick Barton]

Dear Dick,
Just to add on. Most likely you are correct that initially, the earliest church services were in the evening with a dinner being served. However, even by the end of the Apostolic Era, as evidenced by Ignatius and Justin Martyr, the Eucharist was separated from an evening meal to a service on the morning of Kyriaki, (the Lord's Day which is still the Greek name for the first day of the week) aka Sunday. Christianity spread initially in urban centers (some estimate the church grew at a rate of 40% per decade) and logistically, the earliest form of house church became obsolete. Plus holding a weekly banquet would definitely attract hostile authorities.

The Jews could not attend a Sunday morning meeting because they were at work.

 

[Dick Barton]

In all four Gospels, in the Epistles, in Acts. Lutheran Church Canada and Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.

We follow the tradition of the Early Church as we declare in the Augsburg Confession; Article XXIV:30-34; actually the whole of Articl XXIV; but that might be a bit much for someone unfamiliar with orthodox practice to comprehend.

30 But Christ commands us, Luke 22:19: This do in remembrance of Me; therefore the Mass was instituted that the faith of those who use the Sacrament should remember what benefits it receives through Christ, and cheer and comfort the anxious conscience. For to remember Christ is to remember His benefits,

31 and to realize that they are truly offered unto us.

32 Nor is it enough only to remember the history; for this also the Jews and the ungodly can remember.

33 Wherefore the Mass is to be used to this end, that there the Sacrament [Communion] may be administered to them that have need of consolation; as Ambrose says: Because I always sin, I am always bound to take the medicine. [Therefore this Sacrament requires faith, and is used in vain without faith.]

34 Now, forasmuch as the Mass is such a giving of the Sacrament, we hold one communion every holy-day, and, if any desire the Sacrament, also on other days, when it is given to such as ask for it.

If you want to believe all that be my guest. I will stick with what the New Testament teaches. Hope you don't mind.

 

[Dick Barton]

News to me.

It was news to me when I started to study the subject in depth. Spent two years on it and boy, was my eyes opened to the truth.

 

[Dick Barton]

In all four Gospels, in the Epistles, in Acts. Lutheran Church Canada and Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.

We follow the tradition of the Early Church as we declare in the Augsburg Confession; Article XXIV:30-34; actually the whole of Articl XXIV; but that might be a bit much for someone unfamiliar with orthodox practice to comprehend.

30 But Christ commands us, Luke 22:19: This do in remembrance of Me; therefore the Mass was instituted that the faith of those who use the Sacrament should remember what benefits it receives through Christ, and cheer and comfort the anxious conscience. For to remember Christ is to remember His benefits,

31 and to realize that they are truly offered unto us.

32 Nor is it enough only to remember the history; for this also the Jews and the ungodly can remember.

33 Wherefore the Mass is to be used to this end, that there the Sacrament [Communion] may be administered to them that have need of consolation; as Ambrose says: Because I always sin, I am always bound to take the medicine. [Therefore this Sacrament requires faith, and is used in vain without faith.]

34 Now, forasmuch as the Mass is such a giving of the Sacrament, we hold one communion every holy-day, and, if any desire the Sacrament, also on other days, when it is given to such as ask for it.

My background and source of truth did not come from the Lutheran Church. Sorry about that.

 

[chevyontheriver]

It was news to me when I started to study the subject in depth. Spent two years on it and boy, was my eyes opened to the truth.

I guess you have a different truth. Mine goes back to the Toda offerings of Leviticus 7. And continues through the Bible and the Church. You can have your particular truth. I'll not complain about you. I'll stay Biblical and follow the teaching of the Church through the ages about the Lamb's Supper.

 

[Dick Barton]

I guess you have a different truth. Mine goes back to the Toda offerings of Leviticus 7. And continues through the Bible and the Church. You can have your particular truth. I'll not complain about you. I'll stay Biblical and follow the teaching of the Church through the ages about the Lamb's Supper.

You are most welcome. As you don't answer to me, you answer to the Lord.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

So did the Titanic sink since it is not in the Scriptures?

 

[Dick Barton]

So did the Titanic sink since it is not in the Scriptures?

Don't know as I was not there.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

The Jews could not attend a Sunday morning meeting because they were at work.

What is your source for that? There's nothing in the Scriptures that states that.