Coming back to Jesus

[GirdYourLoins]

I have been a Christian for over 20 years and for a large part of that time the church I go to has been very orientated towards worshiping God the Father. This has go to to the point where Jesus is hardly mentioned any more. I have been saying for many years that I felt there should be a more balanced view of worshiping God and that we needed more of a focus on Jesus as well as the Father. This has fallen on deaf ears so I am now looking for a church with a more balanced view of worshiping God.

I tend to use the greatest commandment in Mark 12:29-30 as a means to point out what I feel is lacking in my walk with God in my church. The key part being "The Lord our God is one Lord". For me this is clear that it is saying we should love all persons of the Godhead, Father, Son and Holy spirit. In my church it is only the Father.

I have been taught in the past that we should not worship the Holy Spirit, but I believe that the Holy Spirit is God and as such is worthy to be praised. I am always humble enough to allow myself to be corrected so have in the past blindly accepted this, but my walk with God is nowhere near what it used to be. I have a longing for the relationship that I once had and I believe it is the skewed focusing on one part of the trinity that is at least partly responsible.

When I look at the church I can see it is different as well. where people used to be full of the fruits of the spirit with clear joy, love and compassion for others I now see a church that is going through the motions and people who are far more concerned about themselves than others. we've also lost a number of people who were involved in ministries not under the pastors control where he wanted to take over what they were doing. The pastor tends to write it off as we are in a season of worshiping God the Father and doesnt recognise there is a difference in the people in the church, although he has only been there a few years.

Some of this seems to be the worldwide church and when I watch Christian TV I see a lot of the same things most of the time.

I would like to ask your thoughts on this. Do you think I am right to seek a church that worships Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Am I right to no longer seek to be an influence in my church to look for somewhere else?

 

[Valetic]

Any person in the trinity is to be worshiped in spirit and in truth. So if they tell you how to worship in a way that doesn't allow you to worship in spirit and in truth, don't do it!

 

[Tolworth John]

If you have concerns then you should first check your facts and then raise it with your minister.

the web site 'theshipoffools' has a mystery worshipper form, use it to judge how welcoming your church is, get a friend to attend and complete it. ( practise on other churches in your area, which also lets you see other churches at work. )

As members for their views, experiences of church services.

Try to raise the issues as a concerned church member and not as a threat to the ministers authority.

If he will not recognise your concerns are real you will have to think about moving.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I would like to ask your thoughts on this. Do you think I am right to seek a church that worships Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

Of course. That's the only proper kind.

The process of finding such a church should be one of you finding out where you are being led to rather than you being the critic of each of the places you visit. There will, of course be some of that, but you have to preserve the sense that you are looking for the place where God can teach you and bring you into more truth instead of you finding a place that suits your preconceptions.

 

[Lost4words]

Jesus, is the way and the truth.....

 

[~Anastasia~]

Absolutely God is One - in Three Persons, all of whom are due worship, glory, and praise.


This was specifically addressed by the historic Church and spelled out in the Creed.

I believe in ... the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life ... Who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified.


And removing Christ ... removes one from being Christian. Not saying they are doing that, but it's hard to imagine what a Christian Church IS focusing on if not Christ, because He is God revealed to us in human form such that we could see, hear, and touch Him.

Without the understanding that comes through Christ Jesus, our view of God gets very skewed.


Anyone who directly contradicts this I would be concerned what else they might not understand, having missed such a basic foundation, and I would not allow them to lead me spiritually in any way. It is appropriate to pray for him though.

God be with you and lead you into truth.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

If you have concerns then you should first check your facts and then raise it with your minister.

the web site 'theshipoffools' has a mystery worshipper form, use it to judge how welcoming your church is, get a friend to attend and complete it. ( practise on other churches in your area, which also lets you see other churches at work. )

As members for their views, experiences of church services.

Try to raise the issues as a concerned church member and not as a threat to the ministers authority.

If he will not recognise your concerns are real you will have to think about moving.

Already done all that. My concerns werent taken seriously by the minister.All he ever preaches is what God the Father does for us. I feel that he and most of the congregation are more concerned about what God does for them than they do for God and in my opinion that is the wrong way around.

 

[Doug Melven]

Already done all that. My concerns werent taken seriously by the minister.All he ever preaches is what God the Father does for us. I feel that he and most of the congregation are more concerned about what God does for them than they do for God and in my opinion that is the wrong way around.

There needs to be a balance in the teaching. If you look at Ephesians Paul uses the first 3 chapters to show what God has done for us, and the last 3 chapters to show our responsibility.
1 John 4:19 says that we love Him because He first loved us.
I don't think the balance should be 50-50, but 60-40 the greater side being what God has done for us.
For if that takes the priority, what we do for God will come to us much easier.
but we still need the part where we learn about what we do for God otherwise we will be doing only what we feel is right instead of what God wants us doing.

As for just worshiping the Father and not the Son or Spirit, 1 John says he that denies the Son, does not have the Father.
Worshiping the Spirit I don't think this should be taken overboard as the Spirit glorifies the Son. John 16:14
But if all are worshiped equally, I think you would be on solid ground.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

There needs to be a balance in the teaching. If you look at Ephesians Paul uses the first 3 chapters to show what God has done for us, and the last 3 chapters to show our responsibility.
1 John 4:19 says that we love Him because He first loved us.
I don't think the balance should be 50-50, but 60-40 the greater side being what God has done for us.
For if that takes the priority, what we do for God will come to us much easier.
but we still need the part where we learn about what we do for God otherwise we will be doing only what we feel is right instead of what God wants us doing.

As for just worshiping the Father and not the Son or Spirit, 1 John says he that denies the Son, does not have the Father.
Worshiping the Spirit I don't think this should be taken overboard as the Spirit glorifies the Son. John 16:14
But if all are worshiped equally, I think you would be on solid ground.

This is pretty much my views as well. I would say the church preaches about 95% on what I would describe as what the Father does for us but in such a way that it often comes across as what we get from the Father and our personal gain from it. Its not that they deny Jesus, in fact if you speak about Jesus they always agree with what you say, its just that they have sidelined Jesus.

I think Ive allowed it to go on to long andit is now time to leave. Other things seem to be going that ay as well, like I always seem to have things happening so I cant get involved as much, like the car broke down and was in the garage for a while, no one would give me a lift, having to work late or go away for work, etc. I do wonder if it is God making it easier to make the break.

 

[Doug Melven]

Its not that they deny Jesus, in fact if you speak about Jesus they always agree with what you say, its just that they have sidelined Jesus.

The entire Bible is about Jesus Christ.
The Father loves to honor the Son.
The Spirit glorifies the Son.

If a group "sidelines" Jesus, that group is not doing what the Father and the Spirit do.

Also the reason the Father wants to bless us is so we can bless others, it is never about blessing us so we can be "fat" Christians.

 

[Inkfingers]

Jesus is the way TO the Father.

The Father is the destination we are supposed to aim at. The Son is the means of getting there. The Spirit gives us the desire to do so.

 

[Tolworth John]

Already done all that. My concerns werent taken seriously by the minister.All he ever preaches is what God the Father does for us. I feel that he and most of the congregation are more concerned about what God does for them than they do for God and in my opinion that is the wrong way around.

If he isn't listening and you are unhappy with the teaching all you can do is try again and then leave.

 

[aiki]

For me this is clear that it is saying we should love all persons of the Godhead, Father, Son and Holy spirit. In my church it is only the Father.

Your church doesn't love Jesus or the Holy Spirit? How, then, is it Christian?

I have been taught in the past that we should not worship the Holy Spirit

Is the Holy Spirit the focus of worship in the New Testament? Do you read of New Testament believers worshiping or being taught to worship the Holy Spirit?

but I believe that the Holy Spirit is God and as such is worthy to be praised.

Well, if the Holy Spirit is God, and God the Father is God, then to worship the Father is to worship the Holy Spirit, right?

I have a longing for the relationship that I once had and I believe it is the skewed focusing on one part of the trinity that is at least partly responsible.

Maybe you're giving your pastor and church too much influence over your walk with God.

Do you think I am right to seek a church that worships Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

Are the Holy Spirit and Christ given the priority of worship in Scripture that God the Father is given? It doesn't look like it to me. To whom is it that Jesus prays in Matthew 6:9-13? Who is glorified by our good works in Matthew 5:16? Who is "glorified in the Son" in John 14:13? To whose ultimate glory is it when every tongue shall confess the Jesus Christ is Lord in Philippians 2:11? I could cite a great many verses that show God the Father as the ultimate aim of the believer's worship, not Christ or the Holy Spirit.

It isn't that the Holy Spirit and Christ shouldn't be addressed or praised by the believer, but that the main bulk of the believer's worship is, in Scripture, directed to God the Father.