Glad to know that the thread has been enjoyable for you in many ways
I think the comic world is fascinating
Fascinating - which reference are you referring to on the matter?
As it concerns comics I have gotten recently and that have made me think, I recently got a hold of "Planet of the Apes: The Human War"
And it ultimately does an excellent job of bringing home the point "the lines between good and evil runs right down every single person." For the series is truly a re-imagining of issues on racism/prejudice, be it in the U.S. from our founding through slavery to the Civil War, or the British Empire/other empires oppression of groups and the groups that arise to oppose corrupt orders. It is fascinating to see that while some apes and humans want to live in peace, most operate from a fearful racist mindset - Apes want to enslave/dominate or kill humans in memory for what humans did, whereas humans want to do the same thing when given an opportunity ...never remembering where it did the same as the apes. Each group denies that the other is more than simply “animal” in nature, which is quite interesting when seeing what it takes to bring both sides together.
As it concerns comics I have gotten recently and that have made me think, I recently got a hold of "Planet of the Apes: The Human War" that I got since it shows the dynamics of apes/man having so many variations in their organizations as a motif for how society works with the ways camps evolve in the midst of a culture at war:
-Camps saying two sides (or differing expressions of the same species/family) can NEVER come together/must forever be at war while losing lives on both sides due to both being ignorant of each other....choosing to live in ignorance of each other and hating because others in their respective culture say you have to hate each other - some believing others are as bad as they were told and others feeling that people coming from an oppressive culture will never be able to be trusted.
-Camps having two sides working together in-spite of people in their respective sides saying they can't be together as friends, yet they may not see how their newly created camp will not even acknowledge the messes happening in their world because of how fragile their peace is (i.e. isolated/insulated with an artificial peace where you cab look progressive/diverse while you can never discuss real issues others don't feel comfortable with while your community ends up losing relevance to the outside world because you're focused on preserving a culture and ignoring the problems harming others in the cultures people come from)......and many times, those camps which are full of people uncomfortable find that the people with discomfort speaking are the ones coming from the more oppressive cultures/used to being in the lead - meaning they actively try to assert their privilege/ability to be the ones leading even when trying to have others together from the camps their own cultures didn't understand or like....
-Camps radical (negatively) in the sense that they actively work to ensure that there's mutual separation between groups at all costs, not being dedicated to working together except in the sense that they're committed to ensuring that both sides do not have to work together at all.
-Camps a bit more radical than the camp simply having differing groups from multiple ethnic groups present in the sense that they do not ignore differences in experiences for groups in their respective worlds, being ethnically conscious but not ethnically controlled, and wishing to come together/deal with the issues outside of their world as it concerns how the politics surrounding them are harming them and they fight to ensure all are equally heard in their groups rather than simply asked to be tokens or symbolic....unity in radical diversity. And their willingness to be aggressive in taking the battle to the cultures around them causes them to have enemies with both groups hating each other/wanting no unity and groups trying to unify together - but still hating to really listen to uncomfortable subjects that keep equality (and equity within their respective worlds) from playing out. It can be difficult at times for this camp since the main battle is always ensuring how to change their culture from the top down or bottom up - and being nuanced in how they wage war since they know they cannot afford trying to combat social issues thinking the goal is to eradicate tension between groups. They are comfortable knowing there can be differences as long as others are wiling to have understanding....
There are other variations - but suffice to say, it's very fascinating
Definitely thinking it's a series worth investing in....
If interested, you would really enjoy this presentation on the issue since it does an amazing job bringing the matter home...
And on the issue of stereotype - as it concerns differing ways that plays out - I am glad that they actually had it where Captain IS Black, with the Falcon replacing him after he stepped down..
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Very encouraging to see the way that things have shifted - although for true comic fans, it is a bit of justice in light of the fact that the original Captain America was a black man who underwent treatment with a test-serum - similar to the Tuskegee Project. For reference:
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It honestly comes off similar to the film "Rise of the Guardians" for the differing ways others represent some element of the world or existence.
But the concept from Endless is rather beautiful - with my favorite character being Dream. I like the concept of the Endless and seeing how it is a family consisting of seven siblings: Destiny, Death, Dream, Destruction, Desire, Despair and Delirium (who used to be Delight)....each embodying seven different fundamental forces of existence itself.
Of course, I think Marvel has had similar dynamics with regards to incarnations of concepts which impact people's lives. They did so already with the personification of Death itself, as an example - for others such as Oblivion and Death represent the forces of Death and Eternity and Infinity represent the forces of life, as they are in perfect harmony.. all coming into existence with Eternity, Infinity, and Oblivion at the start of all existence. I loved the way they tied things in - especially with the idea of Thanos' quest to gain the approval and love of Mistress Death. ...an interesting concept and one that I've found fascinating, from a Christian perspective, in light of where I've seen it argued that Death itself is a concept that God created and used on several occassions - with others feeling it is a literal being (based on I Corinthians 15 and other passages dealing with the Angel of Death, more shared here and here) - and as it concerns the entire fundamental elements of the universe personified, there are a lot of similarities to what has been noted within Theism (more specifically Christendom/Judaism) in regards to the concept of their being a Supreme Being who rules over a Divine Council
- all working in unision to keep the universe itself going (even though it all exists within God), as Dr. Michael Heiser has noted before with regards to what the Divine Coucil is about and how it relates to humanity itself.... And others who've done amazing work on the issue are people like Dr. Margret Baker (more here, etc).
Again, to see the concept of a Divine Council within the world of Marvel Comics is rather amazing
And yes, when following the comics, it is epic to see Magneto defeat the original mutant.
The battle of ideologies will always be amazing
Technically, there were others besides Batman who resisted Superman - as they were willing to not justify whatever Sups did in the name of peace simply because he said he stood for "justice."
But with Wonder Woman, she showed how she would be if she (like other Amazonians) chose not to restrain themselves when it came to their distaste for man's world and wanting to bring justice to mankind. Obviously, from the standard D.C Universe, we know that Wonder Woman is often portrayed as admirable/calm...in light of the background she hailed from..
Nonetheless, As other Amazons had no issue with attacking the world, it's no surprise that Diana would be willing to do the same in this one...plus they have already showed her in violent presentations before in series such as Flashpoint alongside showing the Amazons going to war
AT4W: Amazons Attack #1 and 2 (1of2) - YouTube
AT4W: Amazons Attack #1 and 2 (2of2) - YouTube
Of course we understand that in the traditional world of D.C, Wonder Woman is a Diplomat and peace-maker..as well as an effective warrior
And of course, others appreciate her for being explictly feminist...
Woman Woman is deeply complex but has never been against resorting to violence if she felt it was necessary - more discussed in ladybusiness | Guest Post: You?re a wonder, Wonder Woman
And her aggression fits since normally this isn’t the type of behavior we expect from Wonder Woman who tends to be a purveyor of justice, not vengeance
It was insightful to see, for example, where Ares told a great deal about Princess Diana when saying she is a champion of peace, but now seems to also favor war as a vehicle for peace. ....and, she desires to be Superman's mate - fueling his rage. A lot of their interactions are interesting to consider - seeing that I'm curious as to where that Diana and her experiences differ with the versions of Diana I grew up watching and reading about) since the idea that she needs him to do this in order to do it herself is fascinating.
Although it is intense, her spikes are not that radical when seeing her other costumes...
Wonder Woman's new costume is pretty interesting....although some of her antagonists are just as impressive...
As it concerns comics I have gotten recently and that have made me think, I recently got a hold of "Planet of the Apes: The Human War"
And I have to say the series is amazing since it shows the dynamics of apes/man having so many variations in their organizations as a motif for how society works with the ways camps evolve in the midst of a culture at war:
-Camps saying two sides (or differing expressions of the same species/family) can NEVER come together/must forever be at war while losing lives on both sides due to both being ignorant of each other....choosing to live in ignorance of each other and hating because others in their respective culture say you have to hate each other - some believing others are as bad as they were told and others feeling that people coming from an oppressive culture will never be able to be trusted.
-Camps having two sides working together in-spite of people in their respective sides saying they can't be together as friends, yet they may not see how their newly created camp will not even acknowledge the messes happening in their world because of how fragile their peace is (i.e. isolated/insulated with an artificial peace where you cab look progressive/diverse while you can never discuss real issues others don't feel comfortable with while your community ends up losing relevance to the outside world because you're focused on preserving a culture and ignoring the problems harming others in the cultures people come from)......and many times, those camps which are full of people uncomfortable find that the people with discomfort speaking are the ones coming from the more oppressive cultures/used to being in the lead - meaning they actively try to assert their privilege/ability to be the ones leading even when trying to have others together from the camps their own cultures didn't understand or like....
-Camps radical (negatively) in the sense that they actively work to ensure that there's mutual separation between groups at all costs, not being dedicated to working together except in the sense that they're committed to ensuring that both sides do not have to work together at all.
-Camps a bit more radical than the camp simply having differing groups from multiple ethnic groups present in the sense that they do not ignore differences in experiences for groups in their respective worlds, being ethnically conscious but not ethnically controlled, and wishing to come together/deal with the issues outside of their world as it concerns how the politics surrounding them are harming them and they fight to ensure all are equally heard in their groups rather than simply asked to be tokens or symbolic....unity in radical diversity. And their willingness to be aggressive in taking the battle to the cultures around them causes them to have enemies with both groups hating each other/wanting no unity and groups trying to unify together - but still hating to really listen to uncomfortable subjects that keep equality (and equity within their respective worlds) from playing out. It can be difficult at times for this camp since the main battle is always ensuring how to change their culture from the top down or bottom up - and being nuanced in how they wage war since they know they cannot afford trying to combat social issues thinking the goal is to eradicate tension between groups. They are comfortable knowing there can be differences as long as others are wiling to have understanding....
There are other variations - but suffice to say, it's very fascinating
Definitely thinking it's a series worth investing in....
And just to be clear, as I've seen this brought up before whenever someone says they even enjoy Planet of the Apes as a saga and then assumes you're for all aspects of the theory of Evolution....when it comes to the issue of man being related to apes, there'd be nothing wrong with this (In my opinion).
The other "tribe" under Homininae is: Panini, Species: Chimpanzees. Humans are different from other primates in that we don't have an insulating layer of hair - allowing us to control body temperature through sweating. AND Our females go through a menopause sometime quite early in life, while other primates don't. And this wouldn't be an issue for "Creationists" in any way. Dr. Porsche built the original "Bebe" Renault, and the Economy models of the early Mercedes rear engine vehicles - AND the Volkswagens (in 1939). When one looks at the "guts" of the three (and of others he did) one can see a distinctive commonality of design, and similar features among all three - making it clear that the same "thought process" produced all three vehicles. BUT Nobody would try to prove that a Volkswagen was a "Bebe Renault" - but could easily demonstrate that the same "creator" was involved in both of 'em.
Secifically, Under the Scientific classification of Anthropoids:
Sub-Order: Anthropoidea,
Infra-Order: Catarrhine,
Super-family: Homonoidea,
Subfamily: Homininae,
Tribe: Hominini,
Species: Human.
According to mainstream science, people note humans are not apes because of the differences in SPECIES. Others may say there's negative baggage associated with it as a basis for not wanting to use the term--but for most, it's a simple matter of categorical correctness and what scientists have often noted when pointing out that man and ape are not the same..and noting that others trying to merge the two at any costs do not understand taxonomy or classification properly.
Humans are a type of primate, just as apes are a type of primate. They have never been seen in the same categories on all things and that's a basic of science that people in anthropology have often pointed out. The same goes for other species (i.e. baboons, monkeys, etc). Monkeys are not even considered Apes...as they're a in a group below them on the ladder. That often gets discussed repeatedly in Anthropology classes whenever make claims on evolution (be it for or against) that monkeys are apes...
Some Christians think belief in evolution undermines the uniqueness of humankind and the reality of evil and the fall....but I disagree. I am glad for others who were devout Christians/contemporaries of Darwin, such as Asa Gray , bringing awareness to the fact that God can use certain processes in nature to accomplish his ends. For the Genesis account portrays Adam and Eve as Neolithic farmers. It is perfectly feasible that God bestowed His image on representative Homo sapiens already living in the Near East to generate what John Stott has called Homo divinus, those who first enjoyed personal fellowship with God but who then fell most terribly from their close walk with God (Genesis 3.8). All those who disobey God and trust in their own wisdom in place of Gods law reiterate the historical fall in their own being (Ezekiel 28.11-19). I don't see anything wrong with advocating that God may've made two species that have similarities and may've indeed come from the same stock while choosing to impart one aspect of Himself into one of the groups to make them far superior/advanced than all others in creation.
Not too long ago, there was an article from BIO Logos I came across..and I thought it was intriguing when it came to discussing what's seen in Genesis and renconcilling that with Anthroplogy.
For more:
What they offered seemed insightful and, IMHO, it does bring up an entirely different realm of conversation when considering Genesis and how God described the role of Man (as well as the Devil) and the story of creation all the way up to Genesis 6/the Flood.
- -"A historical Adam « The GeoChristian" ( http://geochristian.com/2012/02/11/historical-adam/ )
- -"Darwin, evolution, and God « The GeoChristian" ( http://geochristian.com/2009/01/24/darwin-evolution-and-god/ )
- -"Charles Darwin and Asa Gray Discuss Teleology and Design" ( http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2001/PSCF9-01Miles.html )
- -"Asa Gray and Charles Darwin Discuss Evolution and Design ( http://biologos.org/blogs/archive/s...uss-evolution-and-design#sthash.lwoKu0iC.dpuf )
- -"Young Earth, Old Earth, GAP or Other? Where do you Stand ..." ( http://www.christianforums.com/thre...e-creation-story.7858293/page-2#post-66841747 )
- -"What Does “Image of God” Mean? Bio Logos" ( http://biologos.org/blogs/archive/series/what-does-image-of-god-mean )
- -"Models for Relating Adam and Eve with Contemporary Anthropology | The Bio" ( http://biologos.org/blogs/archive/genetics-theology-and-adam-as-a-historical-person-part-1 )
- --"Darwin, Evolution, Adam & Eve - Coptic Orthodox Divine Justice" ( http://www.copticorthodox-divinejustice.com/darwin-evolution-adam---eve-the-videos.html )
Although I think the story of Adam/Eve is literal, I think the interpretation of it often gets missed. Where scripture says "God made man from the Dust of the Ground", I've always been curious as to why many say its somehow impossible for the Lord to have made other species similar to man (i.e. apes, primates, etc) and then with man, breath his spirit into man....with the Gift of God's Spirit imparted being what set man apart.
The text doesn't say that only having 4 fingers/thumbs is what makes man in the "Image of God"...as other creatures share similar genetic make-up on some parts & have the same body parts. Yet that doesn't mean that we're the same fully. If apes /other species and humans were 100% the same in all things, it'd definately place an entirely different spin on the film "Rise of the Planet of the Apes."
Seeing the Film puts an enitrely DIFFERENT spin on what it means to be in a Zoo---and makes one wonder what would happen if indeed was the case that something was naturally able to develop that'd be against man. For animals have learned to use tools, as well as to communicate on high levels of intelligence/network...even using tools to do things. Though never on the level as man, there's no saying that it could not happen where intelligence/development grew enough where a threat to man's survival occurred. Of course, if that happened like in "Planet of the Apes, they I'd say Apes would be seen as another creation of the "Beasts of the Field" (Genesis 1:24-25)...and having to fight against other species evolving would be an extension of the mandate from God to "Have Dominion" (Genesis 1:26-31). ..with both connected and what's seen in anthropology with "common links"/similar actions kept in place...
Either way, ultimately, those issues are separate from the fact that a good story is still a good story (and just like peanut butter jelly sandwiches, some like jelly on top while others like it on the bottom - it's all about how you flip it, thanks for the reminder Asaph Brown : ) ) - and I do thank God for others able to enjoy a narrative without thinking you have feel it is meant to explain multiple other issues in debate when the story was meant to convey a more simpler reality
Did anyone here actually like some of the religious themes and discussions in the latest X-Men film? I have to say there were parts of it that were good but a lot of other parts where I honestly was disappointed.
It was a bit...mediocre...at points. Still excellent, especially if loving the dynamic of friendship seen between Professor X and Magneto - but at other points, it made me think this is definitely worth seeing on Netflix.
If you've not seen the latest X-Men film already, don't worry on it....
