Colossians 2:16-17; Romans 14:5-8; Acts 15 -> License not to keep the Sabbath?

clefty

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2020
512
109
55
Chattanooga
✟16,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Is Paul giving Christians license to omit Sabbath observance in Colossians 2:16-17 and Romans 14:5-8? Is this corroborated by Acts 15?

Below the passages:

Colossians 2:16-17

16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

Romans 14:5-8

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's.

Acts 15:5-11

5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” 6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Acts 15:23-29

23 with the following letter: “The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you[d] with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, 25 it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Taken together, can we unambiguously conclude from these passages that Christians are free from the mandate to observe the Sabbath, and therefore that they can either keep it or not without feeling any remorse either way? Or is there still room for interpretation that may lead to the opposite conclusion?

I have found this link helpful:

INTENTIONAL mistranslations: Do not let them prevent you from keeping God’s Holy Days

Col 2:16 Therefore let NO MAN JUDGE YOU in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath; 17 for those things ARE a shadow of the things to come, BUT THE BODY OF CHRIST.

Let NO MAN judge you in xyx... BUT THE BODY OF CHRIST...

Why would fellow Colosians judge their believing countrymen NOT keeping "Jewish" customs...

Why would Jews judge believing Colosians NOT keeping "their customs"

Only SINCE they were keeping New Moons would fellow Colosians judge their believing countrymen why they were not keeping their own calendar but the one of the Jews...

And only disbelieving Jews would be critical of believing goyim crowding into synagogues on "their" festivals

also NOTE the present tense of "ARE A SHADOW" and NOT "WERE a shadow"

and of good things STILL to come...He had come already...
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,507
Georgia
✟899,902.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I have found this link helpful:

INTENTIONAL mistranslations: Do not let them prevent you from keeping God’s Holy Days

Col 2:16 Therefore let NO MAN JUDGE YOU in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath; 17 for those things ARE a shadow of the things to come, BUT THE BODY OF CHRIST.

Let NO MAN judge you in xyx... BUT THE BODY OF CHRIST...

Why would fellow Colosians judge their believing countrymen NOT keeping "Jewish" customs...

Why would Jews judge believing Colosians NOT keeping "their customs"

Only SINCE they were keeping New Moons would fellow Colosians judge their believing countrymen why they were not keeping their own calendar but the one of the Jews...

And only disbelieving Jews would be critical of believing goyim crowding into synagogues on "their" festivals

also NOTE the present tense of "ARE A SHADOW" and NOT "WERE a shadow"

and of good things STILL to come...He had come already...

You are on the right track - asking questions that are in line with first century context.

Given:

that believing yet-nonChristian gentiles and non-Christian Jews were in the synagogues worshiping together "every Sabbath" Acts 18:4, Acts 17:1-5 such that when gentiles in the synagogue heard the Gospel (Acts 13) they asked for it to be presented again "The next Sabbath" ...

THEN it is clear that non-Christian Jews and non-Christian believing gentiles - had no problem at all being in the Synagogues on Sabbath worshiping God together and hearing scripture, long before Christians show up.

That's before any Christians show up at all.

======================================

So what about the case when Christians show up?

In Acts 13 - Paul stops by - and sits in on a synagogue service - at some point the synagogue officials ask Paul to speak... (Note that in Acts 23 Paul says "I AM a Pharisee" and in that same chapter the Pharisees say of Paul "We find no fault in this man.. suppose he has seen an angel").

==================== in fact

1. Why would non-Christian Jews care at all that the entire world of non-Jewish gentiles did not keep Bible holy days?
2. Why would non-Christian Jews want to control Christian gentiles if those gentiles were not in the synagogues ??
3. Why would non-Christian Jews want to control Christian Jews if those Jews were not in the synagogues
 
Upvote 0

clefty

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2020
512
109
55
Chattanooga
✟16,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You are on the right track - asking questions that are in line with first century context.

Given:

that believing yet-nonChristian gentiles and non-Christian Jews were in the synagogues worshiping together "every Sabbath" Acts 18:4, Acts 17:1-5 such that when gentiles in the synagogue heard the Gospel (Acts 13) they asked for it to be presented again "The next Sabbath" ...

THEN it is clear that non-Christian Jews and non-Christian believing gentiles - had no problem at all being in the Synagogues on Sabbath worshiping God together and hearing scripture, long before Christians show up.

That's before any Christians show up at all.

======================================

So what about the case when Christians show up?

In Acts 13 - Paul stops by - and sits in on a synagogue service - at some point the synagogue officials ask Paul to speak... (Note that in Acts 23 Paul says "I AM a Pharisee" and in that same chapter the Pharisees say of Paul "We find no fault in this man.. suppose he has seen an angel").

==================== in fact

1. Why would non-Christian Jews care at all that the entire world of non-Jewish gentiles did not keep Bible holy days?
2. Why would non-Christian Jews want to control Christian gentiles if those gentiles were not in the synagogues ??
3. Why would non-Christian Jews want to control Christian Jews if those Jews were not in the synagogues

Paul's letters were written and delivered to these synagogues already full of those NOT OF JACOB...just like when Israel was at Sinai receiving the Living Oracles...full of strangers within their gates...

Acts 16 20 They brought them to the magistrates and said, “These men are Jews and are throwing our city into turmoil 21by promoting customs that are unlawful for us Romans to adopt or practice.”…I don't think Paul was annoying Romans teaching them "Sabbath is over...just love everybody...oh and eat Ham"
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,507
Georgia
✟899,902.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Paul's letters were written and delivered to these synagogues already full of those NOT OF JACOB..

I am not aware of any text saying that non-christian Jews in synagogues were reading Paul's letter in the Synagogues. Do you have a text for that?


Acts 16 20 They brought them to the magistrates and said, “These men are Jews and are throwing our city into turmoil 21by promoting customs that are unlawful for us Romans to adopt or practice.”…

I don't think Paul was annoying Romans teaching them "Sabbath is over...just love everybody...oh and eat Ham"

I agree that Paul's message to the pagan Romans was not "Sabbath is over...just love everybody...oh and eat rat sandwiches...Ham.. whatever you find handy"
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
10,020
4,233
USA
✟470,514.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married

This is a great sermon that gives better understanding on ceremonial laws vs Gods laws and understanding on Colossians, Romans, Acts. It's only 45 minutes, definitely worth watching for those interested in better clarity on these topics that seem to come up frequently in these posts.
 
Upvote 0

clefty

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2020
512
109
55
Chattanooga
✟16,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I am not aware of any text saying that non-christian Jews in synagogues were reading Paul's letter in the Synagogues. Do you have a text for that?

not sure what you are asking or if I was clear...

Paul would enter a synagogue some would accept some would reject...he would later write letters to the same synagogue he visited...

or write to those believing in other synagogues which may or may not have accepted the message yet..or at all...being rejected the believers would find new homes...

historically the divorce between the sect “the Way” and those that remained Jews was long and messy...

Romans for the first few centuries even viewed Christians as a superstitious Jewish sect...

certainly not because of their Sunday Ham dinners lol...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

clefty

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2020
512
109
55
Chattanooga
✟16,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

This is a great sermon that gives better understanding on ceremonial laws vs Gods laws and understanding on Colossians, Romans, Acts. It's only 45 minutes, definitely worth watching for those interested in better clarity on these topics that seem to come up frequently in these posts.

sadly even SDAs follow other Christan’s belief in the Jewish false witness said of Stephen...that he taught “Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered” Acts 6:13-14

Poor Stephen did not teach this as Yahshua did not preach this but “think NOT that” but Christians do...even SDAs

but Jews wishing to stir up the people against him intended to slander Stephen with this claim “Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered” But Luke was clear this witness was FALSE...

Another Jewish fable which we do NOT follow Titus 1:14

but not embracing Festivals SDAs DO follow...as if Yahushua DID change the customs...

please note his fable at minute 10:48 he says Jews were insisting the gentiles were to keep the “Jewish“ festivals when it it clear they were insisting gentiles had to be circumcised Acts 15:1

And the festivals were not just for Jews but when THIS ekklesia was in the wilderness He handed US the living oracles...Acts 7:38 to His Body Israel there at Sinai and was ALREADY full of those NOT of Jacob...strangers within their gates

Ironically Batchelor is a Jew...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
10,020
4,233
USA
✟470,514.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Last edited:
Upvote 0

clefty

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2020
512
109
55
Chattanooga
✟16,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
[QUOTE="
Ironically Batchelor is a Jew...
He has an amazing story. Not raised SDA, son of a millionaire and movie star, spent years in a cave with a Bible.
The Richest Caveman - 2010 | Amazing Facts with Doug Batchelor | Amazing Facts

Direct link

Yes yes yes...but alas sadly he STILL peddles the old Jewish false witness that Yahushua DID change the customs Moses delivered to US at Sinai when He to His Body His Bride delivered His Living Oracles

Israel then was ALREADY full of those NOT of Jacob...

ONE LAW for native and foreigner THE SAME
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
10,020
4,233
USA
✟470,514.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Yes yes yes...but alas sadly he STILL peddles the old Jewish false witness that Yahushua DID change the customs Moses delivered to US at Sinai when He to His Body His Bride delivered His Living Oracles

Israel then was ALREADY full of those NOT of Jacob...

ONE LAW for native and foreigner THE SAME
The law of Moses, written in a book, set outside the tabernacle, is different than the law of God, written with the finger of God on stone and set inside the Holy tabernacle. The Bible references scriptures on the law of Moses (ceremonial laws and ordinances) and the law of God (10 commandments). These are quite different.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

clefty

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2020
512
109
55
Chattanooga
✟16,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The law of Moses, written in a book, set outside the tabernacle, is different than the law of God, written with the finger of God on stone and set inside the Holy tabernacle. The Bible references scriptures on the law of Moses (ceremonial laws and ordinances) and the law of God (10 commandments). These are quite different.
I think you mean inside and outside the ark of the covenant...Deut 31:26

The disciples and Paul kept the festivals and Peter kept from eating unclean...as was later instructed at the Acts 15 Jerusalem council

4 things already in the OT for “strangers within thy gates” 3 of which regarded dieatary restrictions to keep clean meats clean...you don’t mean to say keeping swine from idols made it clean

“But but but I drained the Ham of all its blood...it’s clean now” lol


As for the rest of Moses James concluded the gentiles would hear in every city on every Sabbath. Acts 15:21

Paul’s “copy me as I copy Christ” is a good rule of thumb...
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,507
Georgia
✟899,902.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
not sure what you are asking or if I was clear...

Paul would enter a synagogue some would accept some would reject...he would later write letters to the same synagogue he visited...

or write to those believing in other synagogues

I am unclear as to where you get the "letter to synagogue" detail from the NT
 
Upvote 0

clefty

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2020
512
109
55
Chattanooga
✟16,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I am unclear as to where you get the "letter to synagogue" detail from the NT

“Pros Ephesious Pros Galatas” etc...some with personal greetings to members...

Again not sure what you are asking as I thought this was “understood”

Pauline Cities

Paul would address “to the Galatians or Colossians or Ephesians or Romans” and the carriers of course would give it to proper personnel who would read it often publicly often encyclical at these “Ekklesia”...

Colossians 4:16 had a specific request the letter be read to the ekklesia in Laodicea...

I think it was Philippians that didn’t have enough Jews to actually have a synagogue but house churches...

recall that the early years Christians were considered merely a sect of superstitious Jews...Jews were tolerated by Rome and had their places of worship...but only later was “the Way” given permission to build for themselves houses of worship...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,507
Georgia
✟899,902.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
not sure what you are asking or if I was clear...

Paul would enter a synagogue some would accept some would reject...he would later write letters to the same synagogue he visited...

or write to those believing in other synagogues

I am unclear as to where you get the "letter to synagogue" detail from the NT

“Pros Ephesious Pros Galatas” etc...some with personal greetings to members...

Again not sure what you are asking as I thought this was “understood”

Pauline Cities

Paul would address “to the Galatians or Colossians or Ephesians or Romans” and the carriers of course would give it to proper personnel who would read it often publicly often encyclical at these “Ekklesia”...

That is the part that we all agree on.

But you are using the term "synagogue" as if Paul wrote letters to synagogues.


Colossians 4:16 had a specific request the letter be read to the ekklesia in Laodicea...

The church... not "the synagogue".


I think it was Philippians that didn’t have enough Jews to actually have a synagogue but house churches...

Do you have even one reference in the NT to a Christian synagogue?

..but only later was “the Way” given permission to build for themselves houses of worship...

I am just curious about the term "synagogue" used to reference the house of worship for Christians.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

clefty

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2020
512
109
55
Chattanooga
✟16,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I am unclear as to where you get the "letter to synagogue" detail from the NT.
not sure why this is dragging on into a mountain? lol...

Is it offensive to think the earliest ekklesia to be associated to Jews? The whole Acts 15 council was held in respects to how this JOINING was to transpire...James concluding "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day." Acts 15:21...

is WHY these NOW clean goyim were to understand how to keep clean meat clean for after synagogue potluck fellowships...as they would continue to hear the rest of Moses later...

Acts 9:20
Saul promptly began to proclaim Jesus in the synagogues, declaring, "He is the Son of God."

Acts 13:14
And from Perga, they traveled inland to Pisidian Antioch, where they entered the synagogue on the Sabbath and sat down.

Acts 17:10
As soon as night had fallen, the brothers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went into the Jewish synagogue.

Acts 17:17
So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and God-fearing Gentiles, and in the marketplace with those he met each day.

And when not present Paul would write to them...whether still at synagogues fellowshipping to convert or at personal homes...

That is the part that we all agree on.

But you are using the term "synagogue" as if Paul wrote letters to synagogues.
again the transfer/divorce from all things Jewish took decades even centuries...

Merely being called Christian itself was put upon them by others as they called each other "brethren", "disciples", "apostles", "servants", "believers", "followers", "the faithful", "the elect", "the called", and "saints." We can also identify ourselves as "bondservants" of Christ.

Should we call ourselves a Christian? a quick little study with interesting views CON calling ourselves Christians...adding to that 1 Peter is now considered a later book NOT authored by Peter...

Paul makes clear it was known as a Jewish "sect" known by the name "the Way" and only LATER called Christians most likely to differentiate them from the Jews...as gentile converts began to water the Jewishness down...diluting it bit by bit.

""Nero fastened the guilt ... on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of ... Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome...." [Tacitus, Annals 15.44].

"About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he ... wrought surprising feats.... He was the Christ. When Pilate ...condemned him to be crucified, those who had . . . come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared ... restored to life.... And the tribe of Christians ... has ... not disappeared." [Josephus, Antiquities 18.63-64].

"The Christians ... worship a man to this day – the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account.... [It] was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws." [Lucian, "The Death of Peregrine", 11-13, in The Works of Lucian of Samosata, transl. by H.W. Fowler and F.G. Fowler, 4 vols. (Oxford: Clarendon, 1949), vol. 4].

"The Christians, O King, went about and searched, and they found the truth." [Aristides, c. 125), 9.276].

"Christians are distinguished from other men neither by country, nor language, nor the customs which they observe." [Letter to Diognetus, c. 125-200, 1.26].

"Well, in your long lists of those accused of many and various atrocities, has any assassin, any purse-snatcher, any man guilty of sacrilege, seduction, or stealing bathers' clothes, ever has his name entered as also being a Christian? Or when Christians were brought before you on the mere bases of their name, is there ever found among them an evildoer of this sort? It is always your people that the prison is steaming. ... You find no Christian there, unless he is there for being a Christian. Or, if someone is there as something else, he is a Christian no longer." [Tertullian, c. 197, 3.49-50].

Was the term "Christian" originally a derogatory reference?.

Do you have even one reference in the NT to a Christian synagogue?
no... as they likely were not known as "Christian Synagogues"...but synagogues did have believers...both of Jacob and those NOT of Jacob...exactly as this ekklesia was at Sinai..

I am just curious about the term "synagogue" used to reference the house of worship for Christians.
ok...hope not to offend or distract too much but to clarify...

again the sect "the Way" took centuries to develop into the emperor's official church

add to that a good amount of enmity of the Jews towards Greeks which was not destroyed by Him in His flesh which kept them clannish and separate from "dirty goyim"...

AND NOW ADD the counter antisemitism of Greeks/Romans towards these "Christ killers" and well it was indeed a messy lengthy divorce...from synagogue to church...

and for a brief moment there 6-7 letters were actually written and sent by Paul...allegedly more of course...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Is Paul giving Christians license to omit Sabbath observance in Colossians 2:16-17 and Romans 14:5-8? Is this corroborated by Acts 15?

Below the passages:

Colossians 2:16-17

16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

Romans 14:5-8

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's.

Acts 15:5-11

5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” 6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Acts 15:23-29

23 with the following letter: “The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you[d] with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, 25 it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Taken together, can we unambiguously conclude from these passages that Christians are free from the mandate to observe the Sabbath, and therefore that they can either keep it or not without feeling any remorse either way? Or is there still room for interpretation that may lead to the opposite conclusion?
Here is the answer to your question.

Acts 15:11
No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are
.

By God's grace we are saved through Jesus Christ.

The New Testament covenant is the polar opposite of the Old Testament covenant. The law required continuous obedience and death was the penalty for failure, for transgressing certain laws. One sought under the law one's own righteous through a strict obedience to the law. In effect, the law was laborious and a yoke upon all.

The New Covenant is what Christ has done for us, we receive the righteousness of Christ as a free gift. So all our efforts at self righteousness through obedience to the law, are redundant in Christ.

A deeper truth though is that the law was simply in place for the Christ to fulfill. We are law breakers by nature and could never fulfill the law. So how could Jesus fulfill the law?

Jesus was love in human form and love is way above, all that the law could ever demand.

Love towards others is all that God has ever asked for.

The law only tells you that you are a sinner.
 
Upvote 0

clefty

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2020
512
109
55
Chattanooga
✟16,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Here is the answer to your question.
Acts 15:11
No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.
By God's grace we are saved through Jesus Christ.

HalleluYah...we are saved...now what?

How do we live...like our former selves? like the rest of the world? Like Buddhists Muslims Hindu?

You’re brought back to shore by the Lifeguard do you promptly run back out into the deep dangerous waters?

The New Testament covenant is the polar opposite of the Old Testament covenant.
oh my...so gentiles hearing Moses every Sabbath as per Acts 15:21 were not required to keep OT laws?

You really mean to say they were allowed to:

Worship another god?
Make images and worship them?
Blaspheme His name?
Dishonor parents?
Kill?
Steal?
Lie?
Covet?

Notice I did NOT include commit adultery as that was specified to not do...oh and the Sabbath as James concluded they would still hear Moses in every city every synagogue Acts 15:21

The law required continuous obedience and death was the penalty for failure,
so you are free to disobey? And NOT suffer the wage of sin...the first death?

for transgressing certain laws.
all have sinned...Paul wrote even after the cross...and our belief...faith does CERTAINLY NOT make void the Law...in fact we are to establish it Romans 3:31

One sought under the law one's own righteous through a strict obedience to the law.
by FAITH...Israel from Egypt was saved FIRST and then given the Law once saved...please reread Heb 11

In effect, the law was laborious and a yoke upon all.
oh my...you have fallen far from David who found DELIGHT in His Law as did Paul Romans 7:22...Paul was even GRATEFUL he could serve the Law through Yahushua verse 25

This is love...you do my commandments and they are NOT burdensome...John said

You claim to abide in Him you must live as He did...again John

Yahushua said “My yoke is easy”...or you not wearing any?

The New Covenant is what Christ has done for us, we receive the righteousness of Christ as a free gift. So all our efforts at self righteousness through obedience to the law, are redundant in Christ.
yes yes...but again once saved and justified by Him...NOW WHAT?

How do you live? Your fruits? More similar or less similar to Him and the other branches which remain NOT cut off for unbelief?

Not even biology allows such anarchy...grafted branches must be of the same family/genome to be successful but here you claim you do NOT have to match the trunk it roots which sustain you...

A deeper truth though is that the law was simply in place for the Christ to fulfill.
how deep is that? Sports stars play the game better then we do...do you NOT play it yourself then? lol “oh they fulfilled the rules...I don’t need to”

One driver fulfills the traffic laws does that mean the driver behind him does NOT need to?

You fulfilled (hopefully) the laws of this Land yesterday...no need to do so today?

You fulfill a recipe enjoy its result...what? never again or by another chef?

We are law breakers by nature and could never fulfill the law.
we are NEVER sinless but are to sin less...what were all the admonishments for? To overcome to persevere to run the race to be faithful to oh right

“Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and keep the faith OF Yahushua”...again John

What is the faith OF Yahushua? Buddha Muslim Hindu Catholic Protestant?

So how could Jesus fulfill the law?
through suffering He learned obedience...Heb 5:8 because HE WANTED TO...you know “NOT My Will but Thine be done...” was practiced and applied long before He said it

Jesus was love in human form and love is way above, all that the law could ever demand.
odd the fulfillment of the law is done when and if we love as He did...

Love towards others is all that God has ever asked for.
awwww that is nice...love is all you need...exactly what the world understands...so...love as the pagans love? Or the Buddhists? Or Muslims? Or Hindus?

Ask the pedophile he insists he loves the boy...

Or did Yah ask you to love AS HE LOVED US? JUST AS...

DO THAT and it is keeping His commandments and they are NOT burdensome...

The law only tells you that you are a sinner.

Wow...and even that alone is enough...knowing you are a sinner is ONLY the first step...then you need to find how to be saved...and WHO will do it for you...

and then SAVED how will you live like on this earth NOW as it will determine how you will live when/if we are restored to the DEFAULT FACTORY SETTINGS we lived by when He made in His Image before sin...

The Law is not an instructional manual on how to get saved but an owner’s manual on how to maintain and maximize what you inherited and now own...

Such a delight to know Him AND His ways...

halleluYah...
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,507
Georgia
✟899,902.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
not sure why this is dragging on into a mountain? lol...

Is it offensive to think the earliest ekklesia to be associated to Jews? The whole Acts 15 council was held in respects to how this JOINING was to transpire...James concluding "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day." Acts 15:21...

no doubt there was a lot of in-person gospel preaching at the Synagogues - but there is no reference to "letters from Paul being read at the Synagogue" probably because such a thing would only happen if almost everyone at the Synagogue was already a converted Christian before the letter arrived.

So while what you suggest "could" have happened in some rare case that the entire synagogue had converted to Christianity - there is no specific Bible mention of it.

So the confusing part is that you mention something that you suggest - as "a given" as if we had all read some place that "the entire synagogue accepted the gospel" in which case sending letters directly to the synagogue would make sense.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

clefty

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2020
512
109
55
Chattanooga
✟16,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
no doubt there was a lot of in-person gospel preaching at the Synagogues - but there is no reference to "letters from Paul being read at the Synagogue" probably because such a thing would only happen if almost everyone at the Synagogue was already a converted Christian before the letter arrived.
well there still could be letters of family and friends and other correspondence...NEWS...as they in Rome had not even heard of Paul's troubling but had heard of the sect known as "the Way" which was spoken against Acts 28:21-22

So while what you suggest "could" have happened in some rare case that the entire synagogue had converted to Christianity - there is no specific Bible mention of it.
again... to the people of...Galatia or Ephesians...didn't come to mind that it would be sent to a marketplace and no private residency address was listed either...

So the confusing part is that you mention something that you suggest - as "a given" as if we had all read some place that "the entire synagogue accepted the gospel" in which case sending letters directly to the synagogue would make sense.

that the entire synagogue accepted the gospel was NOT what I was implying just that letters to a people would be dropped off where they gathered...and as Paul went into synagogues so too did his mail

again...the divorce from synagogue to church was long...

sorry to confuse...
 
Upvote 0