Colossians 2:13 NIV [13] When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful na

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Wrong!

I believe in OSAS, but I also know that in this life, we will never reach "entire sanctification", therefore when I sin, I have 1 Jn. 1:8-10 that tells me all I have to do is confess, and it shall be forgiven.

That's Great and then that's you and not everyone else that believes like this.
Blessings
FCJ

 

[DeaconDean]

That's Great and then that's you and not everyone else that believes like this.
Blessings
FCJ

So I take it that you do not believe what John wrote?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I do believe that we get saved and stay saved the say way - i.e. by grace through faith. Obviously you don't.

There is a deception out there that once you are saved that's it. Nothing you do counts against you anymore because after all Jesus already forgave my sins.

Many feel you can live any way you want and in the end it's all good. This and more is what I was referring to.

Blessings
FCJ

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

So I take it that you do not believe what John wrote?

God Bless

Till all are one.

John wrote a lot of things which I believe. To what sir are you referring to?
Blessings FCJ

 

[DeaconDean]

That's Great and then that's you and not everyone else that believes like this.
Blessings
FCJ

John wrote a lot of things which I believe. To what sir are you referring to?
Blessings FCJ

The first quote.

What leads you to believe I'm wrong?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

The first quote.

What leads you to believe I'm wrong?

God Bless

Till all are one.

Brother what are you talking about?
Wrong where

 

[DeaconDean]

Brother what are you talking about?
Wrong where

You appear to take issue where I wrote:

"Wrong!

I believe in OSAS, but I also know that in this life, we will never reach "entire sanctification", therefore when I sin, I have 1 Jn. 1:8-10 that tells me all I have to do is confess, and it shall be forgiven."

You said:

"That's Great and then that's you and not everyone else that believes like this."

It appears that there is an issue with my quote of 1 Jn. 1:8-10.

Most of the time people here will object based on the grounds of 1 Jn. 3:4,6,8-9.

So where am I wrong?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

The first quote.

What leads you to believe I'm wrong?

God Bless

Till all are one.

You were dead because of your sins, that is, because of your “foreskin,” your old nature. But God made you alive along with the Messiah by forgiving you all your sins.

Yep you had all your sins forgiven when you got born again.
1john2:1
1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1John1:9
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

Many don't believe this way. They thinks it's all done and they need never do another thing.
Blessings

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

That's Great and then that's you and not everyone else that believes like this."

Ah there is the Missunderstanding

You said wrong to me saying people who believe once saved always saved think they don't ever need to repent.

You said wrong and explained what you believe.

I said

That's Great and then that's you and not everyone else that believes like this.

Explanation
That's great !!
And that is you but not every person who believes in once saved always saved believes like this.......

Many think they need no more repentance and things like 1John1:9 is only for the unsaved. These are the folks I was referring to.

1John1:9 and Mark 11:25 are a part of my prayers every night.

Blessings
FCJ

 

[DeaconDean]

You were dead because of your sins, that is, because of your “foreskin,” your old nature. But God made you alive along with the Messiah by forgiving you all your sins.

Yep you had all your sins forgiven when you got born again.
1john2:1
1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1John1:9
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

Many don't believe this way. They thinks it's all done and they need never do another thing.
Blessings

I see now.

Forgive the misunderstanding.

Like I said, against 1 Jn. 1:8-10, many here use 1 Jn. 3: 4,6,8-9 to counter any idea.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

For the Greek students out there!

When this scripture says "all sins" is there any indication in the original Greek of the "tense" it is referring to...is it indicating our passed and future sins are forgiven from the point of being "born again" or being made "alive in Christ" or just passed sins? Or is it even a relavant question?

The biggest problem here is the version you quote from.

Aside from that, there is one other word in the text that should make it clear. "Uncircumcision".

Especially in the NT, it is made very clear that the OT ritual of circumcision means nothing except to the Gnostic Jews. Which Paul explains well in Galatians.

"For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision;" -Gal.5:6 (KJV)

But what does matter is circumcision of the heart.

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." -Rom. 2:29 (KJV)

"You were dead (past tense) in sins and in the uncircumcision of your heart" And now (present tense) are alive in with Christ, and your sins (past tense) are forgiven.

Once you are saved, we are told that sins are cast into the sea of forgetfulness, as far as the east is from west. And should you sin, God made provisions for that also. (cf. 1 Jn. 1:8-10)

Now please understand, I'm not advocating antinomianism (lawlessness), that is what John wrote about in 1 Jn. 3:4,6,8-9, one simply cannot, I repeat, cannot sin as he/she pleases thinking its already been taken care of. That trods underfoot the Grace of God.

You must realize that nobody is, was, will be perfect in their lifetime. There was one and only One person who ever lived and lived sinlessly. And we are not Him!

We will stumble, we will fall. We will not be perfect until Jesus returns and we are made like Him. (cf. 1 Jn. 3:2)

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I see now.

Forgive the misunderstanding.

Like I said, against 1 Jn. 1:8-10, many here use 1 Jn. 3: 4,6,8-9 to counter any idea.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Not a problem at all sir.
It's easily done when people who don't know each other are writing back and forth.
Have a very Blessed Week
Blessings
FCJ

 

[DeaconDean]

Not a problem at all sir.
It's easily done when people who don't know each other are writing back and forth.
Have a very Blessed Week
Blessings
FCJ

And you too.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

You were dead because of your sins, that is, because of your “foreskin,” your old nature. But God made you alive along with the Messiah by forgiving you all your sins.

Yep you had all your sins forgiven when you got born again.
1john2:1
1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1John1:9
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

Many don't believe this way. They thinks it's all done and they need never do another thing.
Blessings

The biggest problem here is the version you quote from.

Aside from that, there is one other word in the text that should make it clear. "Uncircumcision".

Especially in the NT, it is made very clear that the OT ritual of circumcision means nothing except to the Gnostic Jews. Which Paul explains well in Galatians.

"For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision;" -Gal.5:6 (KJV)

But what does matter is circumcision of the heart.

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." -Rom. 2:29 (KJV)

"You were dead (past tense) in sins and in the uncircumcision of your heart" And now (present tense) are alive in with Christ, and your sins (past tense) are forgiven.

Once you are saved, we are told that sins are cast into the sea of forgetfulness, as far as the east is from west. And should you sin, God made provisions for that also. (cf. 1 Jn. 1:8-10)

Now please understand, I'm not advocating antinomianism (lawlessness), that is what John wrote about in 1 Jn. 3:4,6,8-9, one simply cannot, I repeat, cannot sin as he/she pleases thinking its already been taken care of. That trods underfoot the Grace of God.

You must realize that nobody is, was, will be perfect in their lifetime. There was one and only One person who ever lived and lived sinlessly. And we are not Him!

We will stumble, we will fall. We will not be perfect until Jesus returns and we are made like Him. (cf. 1 Jn. 3:2)

See, we do agree.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[EmSw]

Aside from that, there is one other word in the text that should make it clear. "Uncircumcision".

Especially in the NT, it is made very clear that the OT ritual of circumcision means nothing except to the Gnostic Jews. Which Paul explains well in Galatians.

"For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision;" -Gal.5:6 (KJV)

But what does matter is circumcision of the heart

The OT speaks of the circumcision of the heart more than the NT.

Deuteronomy 10:16

Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer.


Deuteronomy 30:6

And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

Jeremiah 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your hearts, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, lest My fury come forth like fire, and burn so that no one can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.”

And yes, circumcision of the heart means everything and avails much.

According to Jeremiah 4:4, what would circumcising ours hearts mean?

 

[Marvin Knox]

There is a deception out there that once you are saved that's it. Nothing you do counts against you anymore because after all Jesus already forgave my sins.
Many feel you can live any way you want and in the end it's all good. This and more is what I was referring to. Blessings FCJ

If you mean the deception of antinomianism - I agree with you and I do not subscribe to that. Nor do I know anyone who does who is of the eternal security persuasion.

Antinomianism is the belief that there are no moral laws God expects Christians to obey. This makes antinomianism an exaggeration and perversion of the Biblical doctrine of justification by faith alone.

I say again that I know of no one who believes that all is good when a person lives "any way they want to".

But relating to basic salvation (Heaven vs. Hell as it were) the many consequences of un-confessed and un-abandoned sin plays no part as I see it. I believe the scriptures make that clear.

Obviously you disagree.

Hopefully in God's judgment you have not strayed so far from the basics of salvation by grace through faith that it amounts to another gospel.

There are several people on this forum who preach against the eternal security of believers who, I fear, have strayed that far - if indeed they were saved in the first place.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I say again that I know of no one who believes that all is good when a person lives "any way they want to".

That's good that you don't know any one like this for they can get very ignorant.
We have actually had to ban many because of their rude suppuriority always right attitudes. Not here but another Christian Forum.

However there are many in cf that hold this same view and attitude . I had one in paticular tell me if they sin it's no big deal to God because of Jesus and insisted they don't need to worry about the flesh because it was done away with and they are too smart for the devil to ever bother them because they have the mind of Christ.

The whole time they were operating in the flesh and we're very rude and always right even if a dozen scriptures said different.

These folks are skating on very thin ice and I would not want to gamble my salvation or future like that.

Blessings
FCJ

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

But relating to basic salvation (Heaven vs. Hell as it were) the many consequences of un-confessed and un-abandoned sin plays no part as I see it. I believe the scriptures make that clear.

Obviously you disagree.

Hopefully in God's judgment you have not strayed so far from the basics of salvation by grace through faith that it amounts to another gospel.

Nope my salvation is intact and and future secured.

There is away to loose your salvation but this thread is not the correct place.
Blessings

 

[TheSeabass]

For the Greek students out there!

When this scripture says "all sins" is there any indication in the original Greek of the "tense" it is referring to...is it indicating our passed and future sins are forgiven from the point of being "born again" or being made "alive in Christ" or just passed sins? Or is it even a relavant question?

At the time of Paul writing this epistle, those in Colosse had been baptized (in the past) (Colossians 2:11-12) which is the beginning point of Christ's blood washing away all the sins they had committed in the past. Since Christians do sin (1 John 1:8) then Christians must conditionally continue to walk in the light for current and future sins to be continued to be all cleansed away by the blood of Christ (1 John 1:7). No sin, past present or future, is ever unconditionally forgiven hence no unconditional OSAS.

In the context of Col 2, Paul is warning them of Judaizing teachers who would try to lead them astray from the the NT gospel back to the OT law of Moses and they were not allow this to happen Colossians 2:16ff.

Col 2:13 "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"

1) Paul reminds them of their former condition (dead in sins) before they had been baptized and had the body of sin cut away by God.

2) "your sins" shows they were spiritual dead for their own sins and not Adam's sin or anyone else's sin but their own sins they committed.

3) yet they were made alive (spiritually) with Christ when they had been baptized (linked to baptism in Col 2:11-12) having had all their past sins they were dead in now forgiven.

4) they must continue to walk in the light to continue to have all sins continually cleansed away but if they fell to these false teacher they could become lost Col 2:18 by leaving the gospel and going to the law of Moses that cannot justify.