Colossians 1: Preexistence or Preeminence?

gadar perets

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So do you believe that YHWH was incarnated into Jesus, so that it could be said that God is with us? If not, do you even believe in an incarnation of God so that He could save His people?
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If, by "incarnation", you mean God became a man, then no. The incarnation in that regard is a false doctrine. If, by "incarnation", you mean God dwelled in His Son, then yes. " ...God was in Messiah reconciling the world to Himself ..." (2 Corinthians 5:19). God was with us because He was in and with Messiah and Messiah was with us.

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Yeshua of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Yeshua was not God. He was a separate being anointed by the only true God. "God was with him" and "God was in Messiah".
 
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Peter1000

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If, by "incarnation", you mean God became a man, then no. The incarnation in that regard is a false doctrine. If, by "incarnation", you mean God dwelled in His Son, then yes. " ...God was in Messiah reconciling the world to Himself ..." (2 Corinthians 5:19). God was with us because He was in and with Messiah and Messiah was with us.

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Yeshua of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Yeshua was not God. He was a separate being anointed by the only true God. "God was with him" and "God was in Messiah".

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Incarnation means a diety that is spirit, is embodied into a flesh and bone mortal.

So Christians use the term incarnation because we believe the God of Israel (Yahweh), who was a spirit diety, was incarnated into a mortal body and that mortal person was given the name of Jesus by the angel Gabriel.

The incarnation was necessary because only a God can infinitely atone for our sins, not just a mortal man who God is with. There have been many, many men that have been so close to God, that the scriptures say that 'God was with them'. But only 1 man can claim that he was a diety before he came into his mortal body and will be a diety after he is resurrected. Jesus is that man.
John 17:5
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus was a deity before the world (see above scripture). He was the God of Israel or the God of the OT. But he was not God the Father, who only has 1 name, and that name is Elohim (1st chapter of Genesis). Jesus was God the Son.

Jesus's name when he was a deity before the world (see above scripture) was Yahweh Elohim (2nd chapter of Genesis), the Son of Elohim, who created all the physical universe and everything in it. He recieved glory from God the Father before the world and he recieved glory from God the Father after his resurrection.

So how you view the incarnation is very important. Was Jesus a deity before the world was created, and was then incarnated into the mortal body of Jesus, or was Jesus a mortal man who had God with him?
 
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gadar perets

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Incarnation means a diety that is spirit, is embodied into a flesh and bone mortal.

So Christians use the term incarnation because we believe the God of Israel (Yahweh), who was a spirit diety, was incarnated into a mortal body and that mortal person was given the name of Jesus by the angel Gabriel.
That is not clear. Did YHWH become the Son or did YHWH live in the Son (a totally separate being) through His indwelling Holy Spirit?

The incarnation was necessary because only a God can infinitely atone for our sins, not just a mortal man who God is with. There have been many, many men that have been so close to God, that the scriptures say that 'God was with them'. But only 1 man can claim that he was a diety before he came into his mortal body and will be a diety after he is resurrected. Jesus is that man.
The Scriptures teach that God cannot die. He has inherent immortality which He gave to His Son. Therefore, He could not make the Atonement. The Atonement was a sacrifice MADE TO GOD, not made BY God.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Leviticus 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before YHWH.

Leviticus 23:27-28 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto YHWH. And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before YHWH your God.
John 17:5
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus was a deity before the world (see above scripture). He was the God of Israel or the God of the OT. But he was not God the Father, who only has 1 name, and that name is Elohim (1st chapter of Genesis). Jesus was God the Son.
John 17:5 does NOT say Yeshua was a "deity". You are reading that into the text as usual. The glory Yeshua had before the world was is as the "Lamb slain" before the foundation of the world. He was asking the Father to glorify him with that glory; in other words, to bring to pass its fulfillment through his death.

Jesus's name when he was a deity before the world (see above scripture) was Yahweh Elohim (2nd chapter of Genesis), the Son of Elohim, who created all the physical universe and everything in it.
More assumptions read into the same text.

So how you view the incarnation is very important. Was Jesus a deity before the world was created, and was then incarnated into the mortal body of Jesus, or was Jesus a mortal man who had God with him?
If he was a deity, was he miniaturized into an embryo? Did the mortal body exist first and then this supposed deity entered it? Yeshua was a mortal man who was filled with the Holy Spirit of the Living Elohim, YHWH. However, Yeshua was not like other mortal men since he was conceived miraculously without the aid of man.
 
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Peter1000

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That is not clear. Did YHWH become the Son or did YHWH live in the Son (a totally separate being) through His indwelling Holy Spirit?
Yahweh Elohim was a spirit entity. He was the firstborn spirit Son of Elohim (Colossians 1:15 and Revelation 3:14).
Yahweh Elohim from the beginning loved righteousness and hated iniquity (Psalms 45:7).
Therefore Elohim elevated Yahewh Elohim to Godhead and anointed his head with the oil of gladness above his fellows (fellow or brother spirits). Only Yahweh, the firstborn fellow remained sinless from the beginning.
Elohim also invited Yahweh to sit on his right hand
(Psalms 110:1) and gave him power and authority to make the physical heavens and earth and all that are in them (John 1:1-3)
Yahweh was also the Word of God.
He was with God from the beginning, being His firstborn spirit Son.
He was eventually given power and authority to make all things.

Yahweh Elohim through all this history was in a spirit form. When it came time for Yahweh to save mankind, he was sent by Elohim to the earth and his own personal spirit took on flesh and bone, and he became a mortal man.

So the incarnation is not the HS coming to dwell with Jesus. There truly was an incarnation, his own personal spirit (now a deity) was housed in a body of flesh and bone, and he became a living mortal soul.

Elohim was still with him as He sent the HS to abide with Yahweh (now Jesus) also, and he was able to accomplish his mission and atoned for the sins of all mankind (being deity and able to do that). Was resurrected with a body of flesh, bone, and spirit, and now sits again at the right hand of Elohim, and has been rewarded with the same glory that he had before the world was created (John 17:5).

It all fits logically. It all fits biblically. It is the truth.

The Scriptures teach that God cannot die. He has inherent immortality which He gave to His Son. Therefore, He could not make the Atonement. The Atonement was a sacrifice MADE TO GOD, not made BY God.

Elohim cannot die, but the scriptures say that His Son Yahweh/Jesus did die and was sacrificed to God (the last great sacrifice) so that mankind could be reconciled to Elohim, if they believe on the Son.

John 17:5 does NOT say Yeshua was a "deity". You are reading that into the text as usual. The glory Yeshua had before the world was is as the "Lamb slain" before the foundation of the world.

So you think the glory that Jesus was asking for was the glory of the 'Lamb slain' before the foundation of the world? Well, I guess that is a glory Jesus had. But I think you are reading as much into scripture as you say I am, trying hard to get around John 17:5. Good try, but I like the glory that I believe in, that Jesus was the creator of all the physical heavens and earth and sat next to Elohim, and was also the 'Lamb slain' before the foundations of the world. He was a God before his earthly ministry, during his earthly ministry and asked and received that same glory after his earthly ministry.

If he was a deity, was he miniaturized into an embryo?

Good question. One that we cannot answer, not knowing the science of the spirit entering the body and all.
But we do know that the HS miniaturized himself and abode in the body of John the Baptist from his mothers womb (Luke 1:13-15). So the miniaturization process is not an unknown to Elohim and so Yahweh's spirit entered into the body of Jesus while he was in his mothers womb, just like the HS entered into the body of John the Baptist while he was still in his mothers womb.
Very interesting science.
 
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gadar perets

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Yahweh Elohim was a spirit entity. He was the firstborn spirit Son of Elohim (Colossians 1:15 and Revelation 3:14).
Those verses refer to the physical human man, Messiah Yeshua. They do NOT refer to a "spirit Son of Elohim."

1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Yeshua Messiah is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Yeshua Messiah is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.​

Yahweh Elohim from the beginning loved righteousness and hated iniquity (Psalms 45:7).
Therefore Elohim elevated Yahewh Elohim to Godhead and anointed his head with the oil of gladness above his fellows (fellow or brother spirits).
It grieves my spirit to see how you so carelessly handle the Word of YHWH. "Yahweh Elohim" isn't even mentioned in Psalm 45. You just blatantly make the text say whatever you want.

Elohim also invited Yahweh to sit on his right hand
(Psalms 110:1)
The text says YHWH invited David's Lord (Yeshua) to sit on His right hand. I have just about reached my limit of enduring your foolish and ignorant way of treating texts.
 
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