Colossians 1: Preexistence or Preeminence?

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He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. (Colossians 1:15-20; ESV)​

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(Anthony Buzzard - Restoration Fellowship)

Preeminence

Anthony Buzzard, a Socinian, has an article on his website (written by William Wachtel) regarding the proper interpretation of Colossians 1:15-20. I believe that the trinitarians on this website may be surprised by similarities between the Socinian view of this passage and the triniatrian view.

v. 15 - He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
The Socinian will emphasize that the use of the term "image" in this verse negates the possibility of the Son being God. If something is an "image" of another thing, then that something cannot be the said thing. The article on Buzzard's website gives the following example:

When one looks in the mirror, he sees an "image" of himself. He does not consider himself to be the person who is "behind the glass" but the person who is "in front of the glass."​

Mr. Wachtel goes on to liken this verse to other verses found in the New Testament, which ultimately show the same thing (i.e., the Son is not God but rather an "image" of God):

When Jesus told his disciples, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father" (John 14:9), he was not claiming to be the Father (a claim that would prove too much, if Trinitarianism were correct), but rather that he is like the Father. The writer of Hebrews (1:3) says that he is the "express image" (KJV) — "exact representation" (NIV, NASB) — of God's being, or God's nature. Again, our two words "exact representation" and the single Greek word carakter, from which those two words are translated, imply that a copy is being set forth, based on an original. The writer of Hebrews is telling us that God has spoken to us by a Son who is just like God. But to say this Son is "just like" God is to recognize that he is not, in fact, himself God, i.e., the One to whom he is now being "likened." The writer goes on to say that this person who is like God, after purging our sins by his death, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, a further differentiation between the Man who is "just like" God, and the Being who is God, himself!
The second part of verse 15 declares that Jesus Christ is the "firstborn" of all creation. The Greek term translated as "firstborn" in English Bibles is prototokos. Mr. Wachtel notes that it is used several times throughout the Scriptures to denote a child that is born first in a family. He gives the example of Esau proclaiming to Isaac that he is his firstborn, or prototokos (Genesis 27:32; LXX). However, the author argues that "firstborn" does not have to be taken in the sense of chronological birth order. Rather, it can be in reference to the order of privileges or position. He gives the example of Exodus 4:22, which the Septuagint translates using prototokos. This designation of Israel as God's "firstborn" must be in relation to privilege or position and not chronology in creation (as other nations existed prior to Israel). Another example given by the author is Jeremiah 31:9, which is 38:9 in the Septuagint. The term "firstborn" is prototokos and it is used of Ephraim despite him not being the first one chronologically born. But most important is the highlight of Psalm 89:27:

The classic example of this usage is found in Psalm 89:27 (88:27 LXX), where God describes in glowing words the promised Davidic king, the Messiah: "I will also appoint him my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth." This foremost position as King of kings is a matter of appointment, not time of birth! These facts and this usage as to the word "firstborn" may well have much significance in helping us to understand how and why Christ can be called "the Firstborn of all creation" in Colossians 1:15. "If prototokos is selected in Col. 1:15 and then again in 1:18 to express this supremacy, this is because of the great importance which the term 'firstborn' took on as a word for rank in the OT and then retained in later Judaism."​

It should be noted at this point that the interpretation given for the use of prototokos is the same given by trinitarians. Continuing his examination of verse 15, Mr. Wachtel turns his attention to whether the verse should be rendered "over all creation" or "of all creation." In order to address this point, he starts by distinguishing between the original creation in Genesis 1 and the new creation:

It is necessary at this point to consider whether Paul uses the word "creation" here in reference to the original creation of Genesis 1, or whether he may have in mind what may be called the "new creation." Paul goes on to define this creation as comprising all things "in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him." Certainly, it was Christ himself who described the original creation as being God's work (Mark 13:19; cp. Heb. 4:4, where God not Jesus rested from the work of creation) — suggesting that Christ did not see himself as creator of the "all things" mentioned in Genesis 1:31. Paul, in fact, seems to give an exact description of what he means by the "all things" created — namely, "thrones, powers, rulers, authorities." If this is what he means, then we must ask in what sense Christ can be called the creator of such.​

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Christ (Matthew 28:18). Ephesians 1:21 states that Jesus, now at the right hand (v. 20) is "far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come." Verse 22 continues on this by stating that Jesus will have "all things under his feet." These are passage after passage speaking of Jesus' authority (given by God) along with the exaltation of his name. In light of all of this, Mr. Wachtel states:

These ascriptions of supreme authority to Christ, under God, suggest that when Christ came to be seated at the right hand of God, he — in turn — set up, or created, a new system of rulerships among the angelic beings as well as preparing a place of honor and service within his Father's household for all his faithful people, both in this age and in the age to come (John 14:2,3). All of this is then part of "the new creation." It is this new creation that the present writer understands to be the subject of Colossians 1:15-17. If this view is correct, the personal preexistence of Christ is not at all the subject of our text, contrary to popular interpretation!​

v. 17 - And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
The phrase "before all things" in this verse is pro panton. Commenting on this, Mr. Wachtel states:

This phrase has been seized upon as proof of his personal preexistence. But care must be taken to notice that the verb here is in the present tense — "is" — not "was"! Paul does not tell us that Christ "was" before all things, evidence for preexistence. But what does "before" mean? The Greek word used here — pro — has three common uses: before, in the sense of place = "in front of"; before, in the sense of time = "prior to"; and before, in the sense of preeminence, rank, advantage. The latter usage is seen in 1 Peter 4:8 — pro panton, "before all things" or "above all things" = "most important of all." Here, pro has nothing to do with time or place, but rather stresses how Christian love is preeminent above all other virtues. James 5:12 provides another example of the same usage and of the phrase pro panton.​

The author believes that his interpretation of preeminence is justified by verse 18, which ends with "that in everything he might be preeminent." He continues:

To emphasize this preeminence even more, Paul adds the personal pronoun autos to the verb proteuo, meaning that HE, Christ himself, is being given first place in all God's universe! This reminds the writer of Pharaoh's exalting Joseph to first place in Egypt. He told him, "You shall be in charge of my palace, and all my people are to submit to your orders. Only with respect to the throne will I be greater than you. [...] I hereby put you in charge of the whole land of Egypt. [...] I am Pharaoh, but without your word no one will lift hand or foot in all Egypt" (Gen. 41:40, 41, 44). This is the kind of preeminence and rulership that God has granted to his Son — to be over all other beings — typified only dimly by the history of Joseph's own exaltation!​

Paul piles on superlatives to declare that in Christ "all things hold together." The Greek verb translated "hold together" — sunistemi — is given various definitions by the lexicographers. One suggestive definition is "cohere." All things cohere in Christ and provide a coherent meaning to the universe. He is the reason for it all, because he is God's only-begotten Son, the perfect image of the Father himself! Another definition is "to have one's proper place." All things in the universe have their own proper place, designed by the Creator, YHWH, to be in perfect relationship and harmony with "the Son whom God loves" (v. 13).

Christ's headship over the church is a frequent theme in Paul's writings. Verse 18 declares that headship, and goes on to call him arche, "beginning" (KJV, NIV, NASB). This word also means "ruler, authority." It gives further emphasis to Paul's theme of Christ's preeminence and supreme authority under God. In that now conferred authority, all things begin and end in Christ. As the beginning of the New Creation, he is the "firstborn from among the dead," the first human being to rise immortal from the grave and to become thereby a "partaker of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). As prototokos he is also "chiefborn" from among the dead, because he in turn is the Lifegiver, the Prince of Life whose voice will awaken and call forth the sleeping dead from their graves (John 5:21-29; Acts 3:15). And it is by resurrection from the dead that he achieves his supreme position (v. 18: "in order that"). This means that he did not already have that position.​

v. 19 - For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell...
According to Mr. Wachtel, the use of the past tense is in reference to Christ's mortal life on earth. This understanding would be consistent with Ephesians 3:19, where we are told that we may also be filled with "the fullness of God."

Later, in Colossians 2:9, Paul speaks of God's "fullness" again, but describes it in a special way and in the present tense. "In Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." Since his resurrection to bodily immortality and his being granted "all authority in heaven and earth" Christ is exalted by his Father to the highest place in the universe, next to God himself, and is given the highest name (Phil. 2:9). He can be described, therefore, as possessing the fullness of the Deity. How could his preeminence be emphasized more powerfully than this? But all of this is short-circuited and spoiled by Trinitarian notions and the teaching of Christ's personal preexistence! If those ideas were true, he already possessed — in person — total preeminence long before he was born, before he had been obedient unto death. But, as Paul insists, it was this very obedience — and the humility from which it sprang — that was the reason for, and the cause of, that exaltation and that preeminence!​

Original article: Colossians 1: Preexistence or Preeminence?

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(Greg Stafford - Elihu Books)

Preexistence

**NOTE: I typed the quotes from Mr. Stafford's book, so any glaring mistakes in the text are mine and not original.**

Mr. Stafford, in his book Jehovah's Witnesses Defended: An Answer to Scholars and Critics (3rd Edition), takes some time to address this passage. He maintains that prototokos is used to not only show the prehuman existence of Christ but also that Christ is the first creation of Jehovah God. Mr. Stafford recognizes the case laid out by Mr. Wachtel and trinitarians regarding the preeminence of Christ. An argument not mentioned by Mr. Wachtel, but is mentioned by many trinitarians (including J.B. Lightfoot, which is who Mr. Stafford quotes in his book) is that Paul used prototokos ("firstborn") and not protoktistos ("firstcreated"). While this is true, Mr. Stafford notes that the word protoktistos was not popularized until the second and third centuries CE. His evidence for this was the utilization of the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae CD-ROM made available to him through the University of California at Irvine. The CD-ROM used by Mr. Stafford had Greek texts starting from Homer to 1453 CE. The first use of protoktistos found in the CD-ROM was recorded by Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 - 220 CE).

Mr. Stafford goes on to quote John Patrick regarding Clement's use of protoktistos:

Clement repeatedly identifies the Word with the Wisdom of God, and yet he refers to Wisdom as the first-created of God; while in one passage he attaches the epithet "First-created," and in another "First-begotten," to the Word. But this seems to be rather a question of language than a question of doctrine. At a later date a sharp distinction was drawn between "first-created" and "first-born" or "first-begotten," but no such distinction was drawn in the time of Clement, who with the Septuagint rendering of a passage in Proverbs before him could have had no misgiving as to the use of the terms. [...] Zahn [...] points to the fact that Clement makes a sharp distinction between the Son and the Word who was begotten or created before the rest of creation and the alone Unbegotten God and Father. (John Patrick, Clement of Alexandria, pp. 103-4, note 6)
With this in mind and the fact that God has other "sons" (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7), we must conclude that Jesus is not only a created son of God but is also the first of said sons. Mr. Stafford addresses the use of Psalm 89:27 in his book as well:

Lightfoot attempts to show that "sovereignty" is a predominant meaning for "firstborn." He first cites Psalm 89:27 (verse 28 in the LXX) where in the NWT [New World Translation] we read "I myself place him as firstborn, The most high of the kings of the earth." Here Jah [Jehovah] says he will "place," "make," (NASB), "appoint" (NIV), David as "firstborn." The text does not say that David was really Jah's firstborn. Rather, Jah is speaking of the preeminent position commonly associated with and typically reserved for the firstborn (compare Deuteronomy 21:17), a position that Jah gives David. In David's case, being firstborn of kings and of the earth" is figurative because he was not the first king! But the prehuman Jesus is not said to have been 'placed' or 'appointed' as the "firstborn of all creation," in the process taking the rightful position from some other being who was created first by God and who is, thus, God's true "firstborn."​

So, Mr. Stafford is aware that prototokos can be used figuratively when someone has been elevated in status without actually being the "firstborn," which is the interpretation of Socinians and trinitarians. Mr. Stafford notes the above example of Psalm 89:27, but he also notes Jeremiah 31:9 as an example. He notes Exodus 4:22 along with an example out of the apocryphal book Sirach 36:12. While he is aware of these examples, he rejects them as parallels to Colossians 1.

Colossians 1:15 is not the only scripture where Jesus is called "firstborn." In Luke 2:7 the baby Jesus is called Mary's "firstborn" in relation to her other children. In Colossians 1:18 and in Revelation 1:5 Jesus is called the "firstborn from the dead." The idea expressed here is connected with Jesus' resurrection from the dead in a speacial way in which others will follow.—Revelation 20:6.

Finally, in Hebrews 1:6 God is spoken of as 'bringing his firstborn into the world.' In the context of Hebrews Chapter 1, the prehuman Jesus has already been called God's "Son" in verse 2, and the "reflection" of God's glory and the "imprint" of his being in verse 3. All of these, as well as "firstborn," are in terms which denote a temporal distinction between the Son and 'his God' (Hebrews 1:9) in Hebrews Chapter 1. Jesus' sovereignty over the angels is also expressed "to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs" and because 'God is his throne' (or 'God enthroned' him) and 'anointed him with oil more than his partners' (Hebrews 1:4; 8-9). In all of these instances Jesus is literally the 'first one born' either from God, through Mary, or from dead. These are not figurative uses of "firstborn" in the sense we find it used in OT texts such as Jeremiah 31:9, Psalm 89:27, and Exodus 4:22.​
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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The Socinian will emphasize that the use of the term "image" in this verse negates the possibility of the Son being God.
So? They are obviously and totally wrong.

I guess according to the rules of this site it might be questions about that here though,
remembering:
from the "Statement of Faith" upper right link on this page
from CF Statement of Faith | Christian Forums
this
"Faith groups and individuals that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation whereby He, as God, took on human flesh (becoming fully God and fully man in one person), are considered non-Christians at CF. Posts that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation are considered non-Christian theology and are not allowed in "Christians Only" forums."

(I didn't know/realize at first this was in the non-Christian debate section with different rules.)
 
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withwonderingawe

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So? They are obviously and totally wrong.

I guess according to the rules of this site it might be questions about that here though,
remembering:
from the "Statement of Faith" upper right link on this page
from CF Statement of Faith | Christian Forums
this
"Faith groups and individuals that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation whereby He, as God, took on human flesh (becoming fully God and fully man in one person), are considered non-Christians at CF. Posts that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation are considered non-Christian theology and are not allowed in "Christians Only" forums."

(I didn't know/realize at first this was in the non-Christian debate section with different rules.)

I think he's trying to get a discussion going, I can't even tell which side he favors, is there something wrong with that?
 
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tstor

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yeshuaslavejeff

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I think and believe this is pretty clear and concise and truthful:

"Faith groups and individuals that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation whereby He, as God, took on human flesh (becoming fully God and fully man in one person), are considered non-Christians at CF. Posts that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation are considered non-Christian theology."
 
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tstor

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I think and believe this is pretty clear and concise and truthful:

"Faith groups and individuals that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation whereby He, as God, took on human flesh (becoming fully God and fully man in one person), are considered non-Christians at CF. Posts that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation are considered non-Christian theology."
While I disagree with the statement, I respect the rule. This is why I posted it under "non-christian."
 
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withwonderingawe

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He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

The word invisible there does not mean un-see-able but unseen, he is in the image of the unseen God. Mormons would say he's the firstborn of the spirit.
 
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tstor

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The word invisible there does not mean un-see-able but unseen, he is in the image of the unseen God. Mormons would say he's the firstborn of the spirit.
Would you agree that no one has ever seen God (and lived)?
 
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withwonderingawe

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Would you agree that no one has ever seen God (and lived)?

Everyone dies at some point,

No one can look upon the full glory of God and live. Moses spoke to Yahweh face to face as a man speaks to a friend but when he asked to see his full glory the Lord said no man can see his face and live. But Jesus did promise the pure in heart that they would see God so God has to be see able.
 
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tstor

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Everyone dies at some point,

No one can look upon the full glory of God and live. Moses spoke to Yahweh face to face as a man speaks to a friend but when he asked to see his full glory the Lord said no man can see his face and live. But Jesus did promise the pure in heart that they would see God so God has to be see able.
Jesus also said that those who have seen him have seen the Father (John 14:9). I am not sure if Mormons conflate the Father and Son, but (if not) would you say this was not necessarily literal?
 
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withwonderingawe

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Jesus also said that those who have seen him have seen the Father (John 14:9). I am not sure if Mormons conflate the Father and Son, but (if not) would you say this was not necessarily literal?

Reading through the whole chapter Jesus separate himself from the Father several times.

"....because I go unto my Father.

".....And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter,

".....and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father,

"...I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

He goes to the Father, he prays to the Father and you shall be loved of the Father, the Father is greater than himself. And then in verse 23 he says "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." if they are one and the same their would be no "we".

I'm going to bring this up when I finally get around to posting my view on the Creeds but I'll add it here;

You have to understand the Jewish concept of agent. When you go into an insurance agent he speaks for the company, in fact he is the company they are ‘one and they same’ because he is their legal agent. He has the legal right to make contracts with you, he does their work.

The Encyclopedia of the Jewish Religion:
Agent (Heb. Shaliah): The main point of the Jewish law of agency is expressed in the dictum, “a person’s agent is regarded as the person himself” (Ned. 72b; Kidd. 41b). Therefore any act committed by a duly appointed agent is regarded as having been committed by the principal, who therefore bears full responsibility for it with consequent complete absence of liability on the part of the agent.

In Jewish culture the son was often the legal agent of the Father and it was part of their idioms. To say I’m doing the work my father sent me to do, is to say I am my father, my word is as good as the my father’s word.

When Philip said "Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us." Jesus knew he could not do this, they were not spiritually ready, they were not pure in heart, they had not yet received the Holy Ghost. But he was trying to explain to them you don't need to see the Father because you have me, "..the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father ...." I am the Father's agent so if you see me you have seen the Father.

he says Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me:

But look at this;
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father....If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.....At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."

What he did was to make the Apostles his agents, their testimonies would be as good as hearing it direct from himself.
 
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tstor

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Reading through the whole chapter Jesus separate himself from the Father several times.

"....because I go unto my Father.

".....And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter,

".....and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father,

"...I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

He goes to the Father, he prays to the Father and you shall be loved of the Father, the Father is greater than himself. And then in verse 23 he says "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." if they are one and the same their would be no "we".
Yes, I agree. I believe this might would be an issue for Oneness Christians (I am not terribly familiar with their position), but it is not in opposition to the trinitarian or unitarian position.

You have to understand the Jewish concept of agent. When you go into an insurance agent he speaks for the company, in fact he is the company they are ‘one and they same’ because he is their legal agent. He has the legal right to make contracts with you, he does their work.

The Encyclopedia of the Jewish Religion:
Agent (Heb. Shaliah): The main point of the Jewish law of agency is expressed in the dictum, “a person’s agent is regarded as the person himself” (Ned. 72b; Kidd. 41b). Therefore any act committed by a duly appointed agent is regarded as having been committed by the principal, who therefore bears full responsibility for it with consequent complete absence of liability on the part of the agent.

In Jewish culture the son was often the legal agent of the Father and it was part of their idioms. To say I’m doing the work my father sent me to do, is to say I am my father, my word is as good as the my father’s word.

When Philip said "Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us." Jesus knew he could not do this, they were not spiritually ready, they were not pure in heart, they had not yet received the Holy Ghost. But he was trying to explain to them you don't need to see the Father because you have me, "..the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father ...." I am the Father's agent so if you see me you have seen the Father.

he says Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me:

But look at this;
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father....If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.....At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."

What he did was to make the Apostles his agents, their testimonies would be as good as hearing it direct from himself.
I am familiar with agency, as it is critical to the unitarian position. I would be willing to agree that the Apostles were agents to some limited degree, as their words were God-breathed.
 
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tstor

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As per the OP, I agree with Buzzard and Wachtel that the passage refers to preeminence, not preexistence.
Do you limit that interpretation to just this passage? As in do you believe that Jesus was begotten in the womb and not preexistent at all (other than in the foreknowledge and foreordination of the Father)?
 
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gadar perets

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Do you limit that interpretation to just this passage? As in do you believe that Jesus was begotten in the womb and not preexistent at all (other than in the foreknowledge and foreordination of the Father)?
Correct, not preexistent at all ...
 
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withwonderingawe

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Correct, not preexistent at all ...

So what do you do with John 1

"Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel."

by King of Israel Nathanael was referring to Isa 44 " Thus saith the Lord/Yahweh the King of Israel...", he's saying that Jesus is Yahweh of the OT
 
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gadar perets

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So what do you do with John 1

"Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel."

by King of Israel Nathanael was referring to Isa 44 " Thus saith the Lord/Yahweh the King of Israel...", he's saying that Jesus is Yahweh of the OT
Nathanael was not referring to YHWH or Isaiah 44. He was referring to Yeshua. YHWH is the ultimate King of the universe and of Israel. He anointed Yeshua to be King of Israel just as He anointed Saul as their first king.

Psalm 2:6-7 make it perfectly clear that not only is Yeshua YHWH's chosen anointed King, but that Yeshua is NOT YHWH. He is YHWH's Son. When Nathanael said, "Rabbi, thou art the Son of God", his meaning was, "Thou art the Son of YHWH."
 
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withwonderingawe

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Nathanael was not referring to YHWH or Isaiah 44. He was referring to Yeshua. YHWH is the ultimate King of the universe and of Israel. He anointed Yeshua to be King of Israel just as He anointed Saul as their first king.

Psalm 2:6-7 make it perfectly clear that not only is Yeshua YHWH's chosen anointed King, but that Yeshua is NOT YHWH. He is YHWH's Son. When Nathanael said, "Rabbi, thou art the Son of God", his meaning was, "Thou art the Son of YHWH."



I'm sorry but useing the technical name Yeshua is confusing me. You're saying Jesus is what ....?
 
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tstor

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I'm sorry but useing the technical name Yeshua is confusing me. You're saying Jesus is what ....?
He is saying that Jesus is the Son of God (i.e., the Son of Yahweh/Jehovah). The text you quoted from John 1:49 is not to be paralleled with Isaiah 44. Rather, it is to be paralleled with Psalm 2. To quote Anthony Buzzard in regard to John 1:49:

This gives us the essentially Messianic meaning of Son of God, a highly politically-charged term, since the Messiah as Son of God will rule the world at his return to the earth. Ps. 2 is key in this respect. Matt. 16:16 as the key to Christian confession is repeated in 1 John 5:1, 5.​
 
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