Colossians 1:15-18
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BrightCandle
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In Genesis 1:2, where it says that ". . . the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." (KJV). One would have to conclude that all three members of the Godhead were involved in the creation of the world. This does not downgrade Jesus' divinity or His creative power. It seems that the NT writers stressed the divine creative power of Christ to convince skeptics, and to encourage the new believers, that it was indeed the great I AM that created them and died for their sins. Since the Holy Spirit doesn't have physical body, and Christ does now, and he will always have a human manlike appearance for ever, that He we can relate to him better as our God. Although, Jesus said that "he that has seen me, has seen the Father".
Brooks
Brooks
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Symes said:
This particular passage does not say that. It means God's Word, Jesus, was the means by which God did his creating.
When you see translations that say "by him" it can be rather misleading. The Greek word is dia meaning "through" or "by means of"
It means "by means of " or "through" him.
It does not mean "by the cause of" him.
JMW
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2 Peter 1:9
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
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Symes said:
This does not grant you a license to read that idea into the Bible wherever you like.
Judas went out and hung himself. Let us read that truth into the following Scripture:
"Go and do likewise."
Doesn't work to do that type of thing. It is a bad practice called "eisegesis."
John 1:3 and Col 1:15-18 do not indicate Jesus created. Those two particular passages indicate God created through the Word Jesus. If you want to demonstrate Jesus created you will have to look elsewhere in the Bible. Our theolgical beliefs do not give us the right to color Scripture however we like. God does not find it honorable to proclaim "Jesus created" by using Scriptures which do not say he did.
JMW
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Your anaology is very poor. In John 1:3 and Col 1:15-18 it say very strongly that Jesus is the Creator.
To say otherwise is to deny Scripture.
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To make a long story short, the only reason Symes posted that question is to make you guys agree that Jesus was the creator, then once that is established Symes will try to convince you using some pretty distorted arguments that Jesus was the one who wrote the Ten Comandments and therefore we must keep the Sabbath just like Seventh Day Adventists do.
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Symes said:
What you really mean is "To say other than me is to deny scripture." Big difference.
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No, I do not not mean ME. To say otherwise is to deny Scripture. It is not denying me but denying God.
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I often go and have a look around for Christian Forums and came across this very interesting Looking one. It seems only new but looks like it is Christ centred.
http://www.abibleanswer.org/phpbb/index.php
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Symes said:
Yes, but when you are the one determining what is and what is not "against God's word," it is against your interpretation of scripture, not against the scripture itself.
I hope you can see this.
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Think upon this, Satan was jealous when Jesus and the Father went off to create earth and did not consult him after all he was on left side of God should he not be consulted. Jesus and God decided to create man in the image of God not an angel. Jesus then came to redeem man by taking on the body prepared for him. Satan has wanted to destroy man ever since they were created.
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. This is the creative power of the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Jesus is the creator they are talking about here.
Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. The Holy Spirit created the new man in righteousness and true holiness.
Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Jesus is the creator that they are talking about here.
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. This is the creative power of the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Jesus is the creator they are talking about here.
Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. The Holy Spirit created the new man in righteousness and true holiness.
Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Jesus is the creator that they are talking about here.
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Andre said:
That the God on Mount Sinai is the same God who created man, redeemed man, and will return to Mount Zion for His people and be the King over them. He will be their God. What is so bad to have Jesus as God who had done it all for us from creation to redemption?
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Funny, all the healthy recipes are vegetarian, and there's a link to some info on mad cow disease, and there's a familiar similarity between Symes (here) and Joe (there), huh, interesting...Symes said:
Starting up a Forum Symes?
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