Colossians 1:15-18

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Symes

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Colossians 1:15-18


"He is the (36) image of the (37) invisible God, the (38) firstborn of all creation.
16 For (39) by Him all things were created, (40) both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether (41) thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--(42) all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He (43) is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also (44) head of (45) the body, the church; and He is (46) the beginning, (47) the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything" (NASB)

Who is the "He" in this passage of Scripture?

What is the overall meaning of the passage?
 

Jesus My Wisdom

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"He" is Jesus.

" He has delivered us from the dominion of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." (v 13-14).

The overall theme of the passage is that Jesus is the Word of God and God created by his word and all things were created by means of and in this Word of God.

Verse 18 refers to his risen capacity. He is pre-eminent because he is the firstborn, the first to be raised into glory from the dead. He is the pinnacle of the creation that is passing away just as he himself died on the cross and the firstfruit of the new heavens and earth. He died, so creation will die since he is the Word. He lives, so there will be a regeneration of all things and the whole cosmos will be filled with his glory.
 
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Biarien

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13 For He rescued us from the (33) domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of (34) His beloved Son,
14 (35) in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the (36) image of the (37) invisible God, the (38) firstborn of all creation.
16 For (39) by Him all things were created, (40) both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether (41) thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--(42) all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He (43) is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also (44) head of (45) the body, the church; and He is (46) the beginning, (47) the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

If you put the verses before it, 13 and 14 talk about God rescuing us and giving us to Christ's kingdom. Then in 15, it says that "He" is the image of the invisible God, so it can't be talking about God, because saying God is the image of God is just silly. The firstborn of all creation could either refer to Christ or to God (calling God the firstborn could be non-literal), but it makes more sense to refer to Christ, since God is uncreated, in my opinion. In 16, my interpretation is that Christ is the living Word (see John) and God created through His Word (that is, through Christ). Therefore, in 17, God's word (that is Christ) is before all things because before things were created by God's Word, the Word must have existed, and God's Word holds all creation together. God's word is also the head of the body (the individual) and the church. I'm a bit confused on the part that says "and He is (46) the beginning, (47) the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything." I'll try to give it more thought later.
 
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Jesus My Wisdom

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Symes said:
Are we in agreement that Jesus Christ was the Creator?

No, it does not say that. It says all things were created through him (by means of him) and in him and for him.

And of course this is true because he is the Word of God's creation. God created all things by means of his Word.

JMW
 
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Biarien

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Jesus My Wisdom said:
No, it does not say that. It says all things were created through him (by means of him) and in him and for him.

And of course this is true because he is the Word of God's creation. God created all things by means of his Word.

JMW

Yeah, that's what I said as well, only JMW said it better. :)
 
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Symes

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No, it does not say that. It says all things were created through him (by means of him) and in him and for him.

And of course this is true because he is the Word of God's creation. God created all things by means of his Word.

JMW
I need to get this straight.

Is Jesus the Creator or not?

Can you explain this please?

"God created all things by means of his Word."
 
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Jesus My Wisdom

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Symes said:

I need to get this straight.

Is Jesus the Creator or not?

Can you explain this please?

"God created all things by means of his Word."

God the Father is the Creator. Jesus is the means by which God created. He is the Word of God by which God created.

Just think of it this way to get your head around it. God created by his Word on the breath of his mouth and there was light. That Word became flesh in Bethlehem and lived among us.

These words on this page are not me but expressions of me. The Word of God, Jesus, is not the Creator but an expression of the Creator. These words are a means to mediate concepts. Jesus is God's means to mediate himself.

The Creator is one thing. The means by which God created is another thing - Jesus, His Word.

JMW
 
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Symes

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God the Father is the Creator. Jesus is the means by which God created. He is the Word of God by which God created.

Just think of it this way to get your head around it. God created by his Word on the breath of his mouth and there was light. That Word became flesh in Bethlehem and lived among us.

These words on this page are not me but expressions of me. The Word of God, Jesus, is not the Creator but an expression of the Creator. These words are a means to mediate concepts. Jesus is God's means to mediate himself.

The Creator is one thing. The means by which God created is another thing - Jesus, His Word.

JMW
We have this sure indication in John that Jesus was the Creator.

John 1:1-3
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."


The Word was the Creator and has been there since the beginning and then became flesh as in verse 14.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."


 
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Jesus My Wisdom

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Symes said:

We have this sure indication in John that Jesus was the Creator.

John 1:1-3
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."


The Word was the Creator and has been there since the beginning and then became flesh as in verse 14.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."



All references to Jesus and creation have God creating through/by means of (Grk: dia) his Word Jesus.

God's Word is not God but something of God just as the son of God is of God.

JMW
 
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Symes

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John 1:1-3;14


The Deity of Jesus Christ

1 (1) In the beginning was (2) the Word, and the Word was (3) with God, and (4) the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 (5) All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
14And (18) the Word (19) became flesh, and (20) dwelt among us, and (21) we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of (22) grace and (23) truth."

Those verses says it all to me. Jesus was the "Word".

"All things were made by him" (KJV)

The "him" is Jesus Christ as verse 14 shows us that the "And (18) the Word (19) became flesh, and (20) dwelt among us"

I do not know how one can say that Jesus was not the Creator!
 
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