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Col 2:16 is about not judging others

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by BobRyan, Jun 13, 2016.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    Here is why we like "reading" so much when it comes to "details"

    When he edited the Baptist Confession of Faith in the 1800's

    The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

    Spurgeon's version:

    The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)
    With slight revisions by C. H. Spurgeon

    19. The Law of God


    1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.


    2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.


    3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.


    4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.


    5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.


    6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.


    7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.
    =====================

    Here is the 1689 version of section 19

    The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith
    Of the Law of God — The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith
    Chapter 19


    Paragraph 1
    God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart, and a particular precept of not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil;1 by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience;2 promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.3

    1 Gen. 1:27; Eccles. 7:29
    2 Rom. 10:5
    3 Gal. 3:10,12


    Paragraph 2
    The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall,4 and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables, the four first containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.5

    4 Rom. 2:14–15
    5 Deut. 10:4


    Paragraph 3
    Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;6 and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties,7 all which ceremonial laws being appointed only to the time of reformation, are, by Jesus Christ the true Messiah and only law-giver, who was furnished with power from the Father for that end abrogated and taken away.8

    6 Heb. 10:1; Col. 2:17
    7 1 Cor. 5:7
    8 Col. 2:14,16–17; Eph. 2:14,16


    Paragraph 4
    To them also he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people, not obliging any now by virtue of that institution; their general equity only being of modern use.9

    9 1 Cor. 9:8–10


    Paragraph 5
    The moral law does for ever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof,10 and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it;11 neither does Christ in the Gospel any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.12

    10 Rom. 13:8–10; James 2:8,10–12
    11 James 2:10–11
    12 Matt. 5:17–19; Rom. 3:31


    Paragraph 6
    Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned,13 yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, in that as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts, and lives, so as examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against, sin;14 together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ and the perfection of his obedience; it is likewise of use to the regenerate to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin; and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse and unallayed rigour thereof. The promises of it likewise show them God's approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof, though not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works; so as man's doing good and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law and not under grace.15
    13 Rom. 6:14; Gal. 2:16; Rom. 8:1, 10:4
    14 Rom. 3:20, 7:7, etc.
    15 Rom. 6:12–14; 1 Pet. 3:8–13


    Paragraph 7
    Neither are the aforementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it,16 the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely and cheerfully which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.17
    16 Gal. 3:21
    17 Ezek. 36:27

    Are you thinking the SDA paid Spurgeon to edit BCOF?? Or just "off topic"?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    hmmm - that is "not section 19" is it!

    Section 19 affirms ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments.

    the section you add a "Snip" from points to an EDIT of the Sabbath commandment right where you and many others that oppose the Bible Sabbath argue that all TEN are deleted or at least the 4th deleted.

    Details matter.

    Which lane are you picking??

    1. The TEN Deleted?
    2. The 4th commandment deleted?
    3. The 4th commandment edited?? re-pointed from the 7th day to week-day-1?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    1. I never ask anyone to make any decision "based on my witness" but rather the texts of scripture and the facts of history
    2. All my arguments are from source texts that everyone has access to
    3. There is no "take my word for it" in my posts and here are no "here is my testimony" in my posts.

    You are casting about you for something - but trust me , this one is a dead end. (You would be well served to check out my profile more carefully - might help you with this dead-end you are pursuing)
     
  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    This is the message I received.

    "Christian Forums - Error
    This member limits who may view their full profile."



    A simple "yes" or "no" answer would have been sufficient.

    Why not?

    .
     
  5. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Hello Bob.

    I was wondering how you interpret the following?

    What is the meaning of the phrase, 'change of law', appearing in the sentence below?

    Hebrews 7:12
    For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    Hebrews 7 refers to the Law of the priesthood where earthly priesthood is replaced by the Priesthood of Christ - where in Heb 8 we are told that this priesthood of Christ "is the main point in what has been said" Heb 8:1.

    The OT systems that required earthly priests - ended. Christ is our High Priest now in the sanctuary in heaven.

    Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord set up, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things by the pattern which was shown to you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, to the extent that He is also the mediator of a better covenant

    Then comes the verbatim quote in Heb 8 of the Jer 31:31-34 NEW Covenant - where more Law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers is "written on heart and mind". - under that "ONE GOSPEL" Gal 1:6-9 called the "NEW Covenant" in Jer 31.

    So then the LAW regarding the priesthood changed - so also laws requiring an earthly priest and animal sacrifice for ceremonies.
    ================

    None of that means it is now ok to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7

    Scripture says about that change from Earthly OT priesthood to Christ's priesthood in heaven "Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle..."

    And your response to what God's Word calls "the main point" in that change of law is -- "Whatever that means" ?? Seriously?
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    Hey I forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder.
     
  8. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I can see you read that as a change in the ceremonial law. Whatever that means.

    How about the next sentence.

    What commandment is the following sentence referring too?

    Hebrews 7:18
    For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness.
     
  9. Studyman

    Studyman Well-Known Member

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    Actually, if you were to consider the next 3 verses, the Hebrews Author explains in perfect detail what Law changed and why it changed. Here, let me show you these verses for you consideration.

    Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?


    12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

    13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

    14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

    So according to the "ADDED" Levitical Priesthood, that is, a Law which included Sacrificial "Works" for justification/atonement of Transgressions, that Abraham didn't have, only a Levite could partake of this Priesthood. Jesus was not a Levite, but from the Tribe of Judah. According to this "ADDED" Priesthood Law, only a Levite could partake of the Priesthood. No other tribe, by Law, could partake.

    So when God changed His Covenant with Levi, or as Hebrews says "for the Priesthood being changed" it made of necessity, also a change in the Priesthood Law, to allow for a Non-Levite to hold a Priest's office.

    It's right there in your own Bible.

    The Levitical Priesthood was temporary from it's beginning. God knew full well that Jesus would become our New High Priest when HE Separated Levi from the rest of the Children of Israel to hold the Priesthood office. In fact, this temporary Priesthood Law was to "lead them to Christ", their True High Priest, as it did for Zacharias, Simeon and Anna in Luke 1&2. The Holy Scriptures also prophesied of this New Priesthood in the Psalms and in Jer. 31, "After those days".

    So the answer to your questions regarding the sentence "Change also of the Law", is explained in perfect detail in the following verses.

    Now the question remains "Do you believe them"?
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    I appreciate that you are only allowing yourself to read one verse at a time. Try more than one.

    Heb 7
    11 So if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one about whom these things are said belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses said nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become a priest not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of Him,

    “You are a priest forever
    According to the order of Melchizedek.”

    18 For, on the one hand, there is the nullification of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness

    Clearly the commands that dictated that priests be according to the "order of Aaron" and "law of physical requirement" as a descendant of Aaron - were set aside for the new Priesthood of Christ of the Tribe of Judah and not of Levi.

    It has nothing to do with the idea of deleting the Ex 20:7 command against taking God's name in vain.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  11. Studyman

    Studyman Well-Known Member

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    You would do better in understanding what is written if you wouldn't isolate the scriptures so much. I say this in God's Love.

    Heb. 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

    16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

    How were Levite Priest's appointed? If you were to look into the Law and Prophets, you would find the Levite Priest appointed their own replacements, as they all died of old age.. Over time these Priests "Departed out of the way" and became partial in God's Law. They Led many astray as it is written. But they still appointed other Priests. (See Malachi 2)

    17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

    18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment (Which called for the appointing of Priests) going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

    Corrupt Priests, appointing corrupt Priests.

    19 For the (Priesthood) law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

    22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

    23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

    24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

    No more Priests "Departing out of the way". No more humans appointing other humans to the Priesthood. This Temporary, Carnal Commandment of the Levitical Priesthood has grown old, and was ready to vanish, replaced by an unchanging Priesthood, with the Christ Jesus as the High Priest.

    There is no mention of the taking away of any other Covenant, or Law. Only the Priesthood, from Heb. 7 thru 10 the subject is all about this Priesthood with it's Sacrificial "Works of the Law" for justification.

    Modern religions try to make this about God's Commandments, statutes, Judgments and Laws, but they are deceivers. Don't listen to them, read the Bible for yourself.
     
  12. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Good advice. I read more than one verse and it looks like the entire old covenant was abolished.

    Hebrews 8:13
    13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

    Obviously the old covenant was abolished in it's entirety.

    That means that all the things listed below have been abolished.

    Hebrews 9:1-4
    Now even the first covenant had regulations of divine worship and the earthly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle prepared, the outer one, in which were the lampstand and the table and the sacred bread; this is called the holy place. Behind the second veil there was a tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies, having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant.

    The tables of the covenant are the ten commandments.

    Surely the tables of the covenant contained in the ark of the first covenant, are no longer valid.

    Given that everything else in the sanctuary is obsolete, given that, all the above was included in the old covenant.
     
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  13. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    I hate to tell you but the old covenant has been replaced. Everything listed in the first five books of the Old Testament have been annulled. Not just a Levitical priesthood has become obsolete. Sacrifices and offerings also are obsolete. Food laws and health laws are annulled. Agricultural laws and civil law, all are obsolete. Throw in circumcision and holy days, festivals, and Sabbaths.

    They are all works of the law.

    We are under grace now, freedom from that yoke of the law.
     
  14. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Would someone please step up and answer the following simple question? The Sabbath law was given to only one nation on Earth. When did God give it to all the other nations?
     
  15. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Why is it, if the ten commandments are written on our ❤, people do not seek to find Sabbath keeping churches. Why is it that the Sabbath keeping churches in the United States and Europe spend millions trying to get converts only to attract very few?
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    Is 56:6 specifically singles out gentiles for Sabbath keeping

    Is 66:23 specifically associates Sabbath for "all mankind" - for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

    Mark 2:27 Christ himself reminds us of this "again" -- "made FOR Mankind"

    These have been pointed out to you a few dozen times.
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    Hmmm - fastest growing, 5th largest Christian denomination in the World according to Christianity Today Jan/Feb 2015 article. Have you thought that one through?

    Your question is like asking -- why is it if the command against making graven images and not bowing down to them or promising to serve those they represent -- "is written on the heart" - we do not find the Catholic churches to be empty?

    It is like asking "if the Holy Spirit is convicting the World of sin and righteousness and judgment as Christ said in John 16 - why did the Jewish nation reject Christ"?

    Have you thought that one through?
     
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