COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[stuart lawrence]

Ok friend lets agree to disagree and remain friend. God's Word will be the judge (John 12:47-48). Ok have a great day bye for now

Yes it will:
Rom1:17, rom 3:20, rom3:21&22, rom 6:14, rom3:28, rom 7:4-6, rom10:4, gal2:21, gal2:19, phil3:9, gal4:21, heb10:14, heb 9:26, heb 10:12, heb10:14, gal2:14-17, John 16:8-11, heb14:5, heb14:14, heb14:20, 2cor5:21, heb10:16&17, 1cor:15:56, gal3:10&11, rom4:14, james2:10, 2cor3:6, 2cor3:7, phil3:3, rom5:20
Etc

Bye, have a great day

 

[stuart lawrence]

Ifs not hard to write long posts but have error in your understanding. I imagine the Pharisees of Jesus day wrote much at length.
But, they wouldn't have come to a conclusion, by reading the then scriptures that David and Abraham didn't know God

For they both committed wilfull, knowing sin. And according to the op, if you do that you do not know God

 

[stuart lawrence]

Ok friend lets agree to disagree and remain friend. God's Word will be the judge (John 12:47-48). Ok have a great day bye for now

BTW
Carry each others burdens( love them) and so FULFILL the law of Christ
Gal6:2

 

[bugkiller]

Now you are not going to be able to answer my question regarding King David are you, and I doubt you will be able to define what is and what is not wilfull sin.
I sincerely wish you could get away from just quoting the literal letter and having this view the letter must be faultlessly obeyed to be in a saved state/ righteous before God. However, only an act of God can open your eyes, no one on this website can. Indeed, only an act of God could have opened my eyes for i used to be as you are now in this regard.
Let me make absolutely clear. Neither you, nor anyone else who goes to church on a Saturday or Sunday can obey the letter of the law. Paul states that letter kills, and those with their eyes opened understand that.
You can follow after the Spirit of the law, but NOT obey the letter of the law.
Hence, when I repeatedly asked you if you ever commit any sin you allways refused to answer the question.
BTW
Your repeated quotes from Elias about hypocrisy of not obeying are non applicable, unless you can show a NT/ covenant command that states Christians MUST observe a set Saturday sabbath.
And your excuse for only mentioning the TC in your basis for judgement, excluding the second greatest commandment, is an attempt to reason anything in order to justify what you wrote( you are not alone here in that regard) For the TC DO NOT cover every aspect of loving your neighbour, as frankly you should know. If they did, love thy neighbour as thyself would not have been an OT law, it would not have been needed. Jesus told us what loving others entailed. The TC do not encompass all of that. However, the real issue, is by you stating the basis of the christians judgement is obeying the law, that in itself shows you don't understand the NC. You just try and desperately reason you are not trying to seek justification of observing the law, when in truth you are. You are far from Alone in that. Many who go to church on Sunday do the same, but not to the extent sda do
This is good advice. If you are not willing to change your outlook. Rigidly stick to quoting the partial letter, and stick resolutely to only discusing Saturday sabbath. Don't venture beyond that.

In my view, you are missing out on so much, but no one can help you unless you are willing to see

Who sins against their will?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Yes he is. Let me write it out for you again maybe you did not see it. I will underline the sections for you to look at. Hope it helps.

Jam 2:8-12,
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons <G4380 means Show partiality>, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James is not the law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

1Pe 1:14, As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15, But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16, Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord
Mat 5, 17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5, 18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5, 19, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19, 17, And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
John 14, 15, If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 15, 10, If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1 John 2, 3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1 John 2, 4, He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
James 2:10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
James 2:11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Matt 5:27, Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Matt 5:28, But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
James 2:12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James 2:13, For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Romans 2:6, Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Romans 2:7, To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Romans 2:8, But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath.
Heb 10:26, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Ecc 12:13, Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Which one or ones of these passages calls one to religious duty? First we can eliminate all the passages not quoting Jesus, especially those presented to condemn.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Yes you indeed do not understand.

Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.

No connection for me about the regulation of the flesh or carnal mind. The soul that is born again does not sin.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Firstly you have not given any verse endorsing your belief. You have quoted Romans 14:5-6 which is talking about the Jewish annual feast days. God's 7th Day Sabbath commandment is not even mentioned. Now if the scripture you used does not even mention the 7th Day Sabbath what makes you think it is talking about it? Now you would think if that is what Paul was talking about he would be very clear what he is talking about considering God's people, had been keeping the commandment since is was given 490 years earlier and Jesus and all his follows kept it as a Holy day according to God's Law? So no Romans 14:5-6 does not even mention the Sabbath but it is consistent with what Paul is talking about in Col 2:14-17 about the Jewish annual feast days and holy convocations as discussed in the OP. Go read the OP Parts 1 to 4. You will get a blessing.

Ok tell you what. You show me one verse in the bible (Old or New Testament) that says God's 4th commandment (7th Day Sabbath) is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day and I will show you not one bible verse but MANY MANY MANY bible verses showing what Jesus taught about the Sabbath, how Jesus and all his followers kept the Sabbath only using the New Testament? Ok I am waiting for your single bible verse.

Now if you cannot show me one bible verse telling us that God's 4th commandment (the 7th Day Sabbath) is now abolished and we are commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day, why do you break God's commandments to follow man made traditions over the Word of God?

The statement you demand does not exist. Now you can say thank-you very much. Jesus says to His commandments, not His Father's. Where does Jesus say keep the sabbath?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Yes Jesus does teaches about hypocrisy. He says it is those that pretend to be Christian while knowingly and willfully breaking His commandments.

Mat 15:3-9,
But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou might be profited by me; And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draws nigh unto me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Jesus is not addressing Christians in your passage.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I hope everyone notes, the op refuses to address the question asked, which was asked due to his statement that if you knowingly and wilfully sin you do not know God.
All of a sudden he doesn't want to respond.
For in truth he cannot respond.
David wilfully and knowingly broke three of the TC one after the other.
According to the ops understanding of scripture therefore, king David did not know God.
No wonder he doesn't want to respond
So the excuse is:
I'm going to stop answering your random questions.
A question I repeat In response to what the op wrote

To top it off King David is called righteous.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Interesting so according to your understanding of God's Word you believe the Gentiles can sin and be in a saved state?

What are you really asking? I think you are asking under cover if the Christian is obligated to the covenant given to Israel at Mt Sinai. For me the answer is no because we are subject to a new and different covenant.

Where is your scripture you have given none that says that God's people no longer need to keep God's 4th commandment as a Holy day and that it is abolished. You have given no scripture that says we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. God's Word clearly tells us if we break one of God's 10 commandments we are guilty of breaking all of his law and are in danger of the Judgement.

You were given Rom 14. I will send back one you quoted JN 15:10. John 10 is great on this subject.

Jam 2:8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jam 2:9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jam 2:10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jam 2:11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jam 2:12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Show me the scripture that says God's 4th commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

If the statement you demand were to be found, it would be of no value to you.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Hi disciple1,

So nice to meet you. Also so nice to meet someone that wants to talk about the OP. Thanks for your comments I believe Gal 3:17 is a great verse

God bless

What does the quoted post in your response have to do with the OP?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

If your asking did King David sin when he organized a murder of Bathsheba's husband and took Bathsheba to wife. Absolutely he did. Did King David repent of His sin? Absolutely he did (2Sam 12:13) Did David receive consequences for His sin? Absolutely (2Sam 12:10-14) 1 John 3:6 is in reference to someone in unrepentant sin and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). When using the term willful it is referring to unrepentant sin.

Heb 10:26-27,
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Now tell me, if David did not repent from his sin was he in a saved state or an unsaved state?

Any time an individual sins it is a choice and therefore willful. BTW David sinned to cover up a sin.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Do you know what these scriptures mean?

Mat 6:22-23,
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness.

John 1:5,
And the light shined in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 12:35-36,
Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light.

John 12:46
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Heb 10:26-27,
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

We sure do. Why are you presenting them? They have nothing to do with the OP or the post yuo responded to. Why I see is condemnation of another because of course they do not apply to you.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

No one is trying to obey the letter of the Law, especially not me and not one is telling you to. So what is your argument?

Yeah only because you are not presenting the sabbath as given in the 10 Cs. You are presenting an amended sabbath and not the real thing.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

They are the Words of Jesus not mine my friend. They are applicable because you cannot show one scripture in the all of God’s Word that say that the 4th Commandment (the 7th Day Sabbath) is abolished and we no longer are required to keep it and there is no commandment to keep Sunday as a Holy day. You break God’s commandments by keeping man-made traditions. Now if you break God’s commandments by following man made traditions over the Word of God, how are these scriptures not applicable?

Matthew 15:3-9,
3, But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4, For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5, But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6, And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7, Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.9, But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Now these are the Words of Jesus and they are a warning to us to help us to return to him before it is too late. Do you believe Jesus or not? Remember Jesus also says; If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. (John 12:47-48). God’s Word that we have the opportunity today to believe or not will judge us in the last days. Today God’ asks us to receive His Word because none of us know if there will be a tomorrow.

Do you believe God’s Words Stuart?

I wonder why you are asking this question. Perhaps a trap. My wager is he believes more of it than you.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

No these are God's Words you can read them here

When using the term willful it is referring to unrepentant sin.

Hebrews 10:26-27,
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

1 John 3:6,
Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins <unrepentant>hath not seen him, neither known him.

Who do we abide in? What has that got to do with the law, since you seem to think sin is only and always transgressing the law issued at Mt Sinai.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Ok friend lets agree to disagree and remain friends. Let God's Word be the judge.
John 12:47-48,
If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Excellent passage. Now which passage quotes Jesus requiring the sabbath be kept?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Tell me Stuart what does the NC mean to you?

Here you depart from the op.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Do you not think Jesus has already sent us the Holy Spirit? This is also part of the NC promise. All of the writers of God's Word had the Holy Spirit and we are to live by all of God's Word not just the scriptures that suit us

What you are requiring is to abide by opposing covenants at the same time. This is impossible.

bugkiller