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COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Aug 10, 2017.

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  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    The answer to your question is no, I love Jesus, so I follow Him. There is no striving when you love someone to do anything it is a delight. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law. It is God that works in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure as we have faith in His Word (Phil 2:13).
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  2. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    It is noted you are reluctant to answer a very simple question.
    Incidentally, seventh day Adventist do officially accept as Christians people who are not conscious they sin by failing to observe a specific seventh day sabbath, so I can assume you do not belong to that church
     
  3. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    Once again, you are avoiding answering the question.
    Do you obey each and every literal command of Christ?
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Friend you assume to much. Please read all my posts and all the scriptures very carefully. In times of ignorance God does indeed wink at but when a knowledge of the truth comes calls all men to repentance (Acts 17:30). All of my posts have stated this "if we willfully and knowingly sin" I believe God has his people in every Church but he is calling His true followers out to worship him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24)
     
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Your question hs been answered in post 21 maybe you just do not like the answer?
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  6. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Where does one find each and every literal command of Christ?
     
  7. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    Well as you believe the law God desires the believer to keep is written in their mind and placed on their heart, if you understand spiritual truth you must believe anyone who fails to observe a specific seventh day sabbath commits wilfull sin without conscience. Therefore, according to your beliefs you must believe they cannot be saved.
    I have to assume much for you fail to answer directly many questions put to you
     
  8. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    In the gospels, so everyone I have chatted to accepts
     
  9. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    You have not directly answered my questions.
    Well you must believe I am an unsaved heathen, so why even ask me if I love Jesus?
     
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Friend I answered all of your questions directly with scripture and personally in my own personal experience. Only God's Word is true and we should beleive and follow it. Our opinions do not mean anything. If you read what I have shared in the posts above you will see what you have said above is not true at all. It is up to you if you accept God's Word or not. This is between you and God. I do not judge you.

    In Christ always.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  11. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    I will repeat, you have not directly answered my questions based in your understanding of scripture
    IE
    Do you believe, based on your understanding of scripture anyone can be a Christian if they are not conscious they sin by failing to observe a specific seventh day sabbath?
    Do you obey, or strive to obey each and every literal command of Christ in the gospels?
     
  12. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    Welcome. :)


    Crosses were never used as a means of disposing of laws and there was never a need to legislate new laws to replace the old ones any time someone was crucified. Rather, what was written on crosses were the violations of the law or charges against the person being crucified in order to explain why they were being crucified (Matthew 27:37). This fits perfectly with our sin or violations of the Mosaic Law being nailed to his cross and with him dying to pay the penalty for our sins in our place, but does not fit at all with God doing away with His holy, righteous, and good Law (Romans 7:12).

    Furthermore in Titus 2:11-14, it says that our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly and sinful, which is an accurate description of what God's Law was given to instruct how to do. In addition, Titus 2:14 does not say that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from the Law, but to redeem us from all Lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, and God's Law is again His instructions for how to do good works (2 Timothy 3:16-17, Acts 21:20).

    In regard to Colossians 2:16, if you take that verse by itself, then it is ambiguous as to whether Paul was saying not to let anyone judge them for observing those days or for not observing them, but if we keep in mind the theme that we must obey God rather than man and examine the views of the people judging them, then it becomes clear:

    Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

    Paul would not have described those teaching obedience to the holy, righteous, and good commands of God as taking people captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition. Jesus was sinless, so he at least taught obedience to the Mosaic Law by example, which means that it wouldn't make any sense to say that those who are teaching people to follow Christ's example are teaching what is not according to Christ. That would also pit the Son against the Father and Jesus said that he came only to do the Father's will (John 6:38) and that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father (John 14:23-24). Paul went into more details about what these elemental spirits of the world are later in the chapter:

    Colossians 2:20-23 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

    So the Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to God's commands, they were being judged by those teaching human precepts and traditions, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, and Paul was writing to encourage them not to let any man keep them from obeying God. God's holy days are important foreshadows of what is to come, which are extremely rich with teachings about Messiah, God's plan of redemption, and are what we will be doing during Messiah's reign.

    In 1 Peter 1:13-16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a reference to Leviticus where God was given instructions for how to act in accordance with His holiness. It should be relatively straightforward that the way to have a holy conduct involves observing God's holy days. God's eternal holiness most assuredly was not done away with at the cross, so neither were His instructions for how to act in accordance with His holiness.

    The Ten Commandments were given by themselves because they were what the Mosaic Covenant was originally intended to be. That covenant was based upon the condition that Israel would hear and obey God's voice (Exodus 19:5), but upon hearing God's voice, Israel got cold feet and wanted God to speak to Moses and for them to listen to Moses instead (Exodus 20:19). The Mosaic Covenant is often described as a marriage covenant between God and Israel, so this was exactly like a man proposing to his girlfriend, her agreeing, but on the wedding day deciding that she only wanted to interact with her husband though a mediator. This was less than ideal for the intimacy that God desires to have with His people, and quickly led to problems which would not have occurred if Israel had been listening to God's voice, but God nevertheless agreed to this different covenant, so it became necessary for Moses to write down all of God's other instructions for how to walk in His ways in lieu of the people being instructed by God's voice (Deuteronomy 5:22-33). All of God's laws reveal how to walk in God's ways in accordance with His character, not just ten of them, and it is a sin to disobey any of God's commands, not just ten of them. The purpose of pointing out our sin is to lead us to repent and turn back to obedience to God's Law.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
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  13. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    So Christ hasn't issued any commands since his death? (Excepting Paul's experience on the road to Damascus and the things he heard directly from the Lord after that.) Our Lord has been silent for 2000+ years?
     
  14. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    When Jesus stated:
    If you love me obey my commandments

    In your view, what was he referring to?
     
  15. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    Hello,

    In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, God said that what He commanded was not too difficult and in Romans 10:5-10, our faith also says that what God commanded was not too difficult, so anyone can do what the Law commands. God had many purpose for commanding the Law, one of which was to point out our sin, but as I just mentioned, the purpose of pointing out our sin it to lead us to repentance and to turn back to obedience to what the Law instructs. The Law primarily instructs us how to live according to God's character: His holiness, righteousness, goodness (Romans 7:12), justice, mercy, faithfulness (Matthew 23:23), and other fruits of the Spirit (Exodus 34:6-7). God does not command His people throughout the Bible to do what is righteous in accordance His righteousness and then disdain our obedience to His commands, but rather the righteous deeds of the saints are like fine white linen (Revelation 19:8). In Isaiah 64:6, it was not God speaking, but rather it was the people speaking about how they thought God was perceiving their actions. In James 1:22-25, he was encouraging us to be doers of God's Law, so I am not sure why you think that supports our righteousness being filthy rags. God's Law brings us to Christ because its goal is to teach us about Messiah and how to have a relationship with him based on faith (Romans 10:4).

    Pleroo: to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

    In Matthew 5:17, Jesus said he came to fulfill the Law and then proceeded to fulfill it six times by causing God's will (as made known in the Law) to be obeyed as it should be. In Galatians 5:14, it says that loving our neighbor fulfills the entire Law, so this is something everyone who has ever loved their neighbor has done and does not refer to something unique that Christ did. Love fulfills the entire Law because it is obeying it in the way that it should be obeyed. Likewise, in Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ because it is obeying it in the way that it should be obeyed. In Romans 15:18-19, Paul fulfilled the Gospel by causing the Gentiles to obey it in word and in deed as it should be obeyed.

    None of the verses that you quoted specify that they are speaking only about the Ten Commandments, but rather God's Law refers to all of the laws that God has commanded. In John 14:23-24, Jesus said that his teachings were not His own, but that of the Father, and the Father again taught more than just the Ten Commandments.

    I agree, but it is man's teaching that deprives you of the joy and the privilege of obeying all but ten of God's commands. Jesus was born under the Law and was sinless, so he walked in perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law, and we are told to walk in the same way as he walked (1 John 2:3-6) and to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). We should let no man keep us from obeying all that God has commanded.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  16. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    If it is not too difficult to obey what the law commands, if anyone can obey the law, why did Paul term the TC the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation?
     
  17. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    When God has revealed something to be sin and someone feels no heartfelt conviction that they sin by doing so, then it become decision of whether they are going to be a follower of God or of their heart. Which do they trust more? The most obvious possibility for the law not being written on their heart is that their heart has become hardened and they need to repent.
     
  18. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    The moment you accept Christ as your saviour, the law God desires you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart. That is one of the two main clauses of the NC. No time for your heart to have become hardened!
    Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    The LAW that Jeremiah knew about - in Jeremiah 31:31-33 where we find the New Covenant - includes "do not take God's name in vain" ... in fact it includes all the TEN Commandments.
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    The Law that Jeremiah knew about in Jeremiah 31:31-33 as even the pro-sunday scholars admit... includes God's Ten Commandments.

    The Baptist Confession of Faith,
    the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
    D.L. Moody,
    R.C Sproul,
    Matthew Henry,
    Thomas Watson
    Eastern Orthodox Catechism
    The Catholic Catechism.
     
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