COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[Marco70]

The true dividing line in Christianity, is not(not) according to denomination, but rather the Holy Spirit. Some are led of the Holy Spirit into understanding the truth, and some are not. Some rely on the little grey cells to learn, and some rely on the Holy Spirit.
Some rely on an understanding of the Greek to learn, I guess believing the Holy Spirit is not capable of giving them discernible understanding through reading English translations alone. Huge amounts of time and effort are given to reading concordances, and the greek translations. What is the result? For many They fail to understand the core message given to the person who wrote half the books of the NT. They do not know what Paul meant by dying to the law and being released from the law. Study all you wish, but only the Holy Spirit can lead you into truth.
It is easy to see those who do not allow the Holy Spirit to lead them into truth. They write long posts, woodenly quoting the letter, with little or no explanation of what they are quoting. Anyone can quote scripture, jws, Mormons, muslims do it to support their beliefs. But that isn't enough, as the Pharisees of Jesus day proved

 

[The7thColporteur]

...They do not know what Paul meant by dying to the law and being released from the law....

Released, through/in Christ, from the law's condemnation [Romans 3:19 KJB] for having transgressed it, not from the necessity of obeying it [Romans 6:14-15 KJB]. My old man of sins dies in condemnation [he never gets to leave the 2nd death], only Christ Jesus the eternally Law abiding citizen goes free. It is redeemed humanity.

Galatians 2:20 KJB - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
​

All Ten [Exodus 20:1-17 KJB], including the 4th Commandment, the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, are to be perfectly obeyed through the Holy Spirit, in the love of God and freedom from condemnation which the Father provided in Christ Jesus by his perfect life, death and shed blood, resurrection and atoning works.

 

[Marco70]

The core foundation upon which the NC stands is as follows:

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17

And it is here, we need to be able to understaqnd the outworking of what is written.
What is in your mind, you in your mind must know, irrefutable! And the law in your heart must bring heartfelt conviction of sin when you wilfully transgress it, for: Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom 3:20

Now if the law is in your heart, you in your heart want to obey it, simply put, you desire to live as God wants you to live. Irrefutable fact, for what is in your heart you in your heart want to follow. What happens when you go against what is in your heart to do? Your conscience MUST be seered, and you will have no rest and no peace until you come before your Father in heaven and tell him you are sorry for how you acted. So a TRULY born again Christian will always repent/say sorry for how they have acted. And they will do so as surely as night follows day.
But has everyone who goes to church truly been born again of the Holy Spirit? Is the law in their heart and mind? If it is not, they will not so readily repent, for they will not have the burden of grief at going against what is in their heart. They would be able to casually sin, and have no qualms about it. They may just flippantly excuse their sin, and make no apology when they sin against others. For them, being told they must repent is imperative, for those truly born again not so.
And of course, when the Apostles wrote to the early church, they were writing to many different people, some of their words were necessary for some, and some for others

 

[Marco70]

For instance, someone who obviously does not understand Paul's central message, quoted to me my words the Christian is released from the law and dies to the law, alongside that, because I had written that, they accused me of believing Christ did away with the law.
And yet, they have much read the Greek and concordances

 

[Marco70]

And of course, I got no apology as I have NEVER written Christ did away with the law. How can anyone not apologise for falsely accusing you of something/bearing false witness against you if the law is in their heart and mind? Tis a mystery to me for sure

 

[Marco70]

The core foundation upon which the NC stands is as follows:

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17
And yet, some say, you are only not under the law/saved, if you perfectly obey the law, do not commit sin. That is not what is stated in the above.
The belief you are not under law/condemned by it as long as you perfectly obey the law, is, rather fanciful to put it mildly

 

[The7thColporteur]

The core foundation upon which the NC stands is as follows:

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’

...

We've been here before Marco70 - [Link]

"my laws" are the Ten Commandments [all Ten of them in their specific words]:

"My laws":

Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no. Exodus 16:4

Now therefore, O LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit upon the throne of Israel; yet so that thy children take heed to their way to walk in my law, as thou hast walked before me. 2 Chronicles 6:16

[[Maschil of Asaph.]] Give ear, O my people, [to] my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. Psalms 78:1

If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; Psalms 89:30

My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments: Proverbs 3:1

For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law. Proverbs 4:2

Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye. Proverbs 7:2

Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart [is] my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings. Isaiah 51:7

Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, [even] the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it. Jeremiah 6:19

And the LORD saith, Because they have forsaken my law which I set before them, and have not obeyed my voice, neither walked therein; Jeremiah 9:13

Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law; Jeremiah 16:11

And thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; If ye will not hearken to me, to walk in my law, which I have set before you, Jeremiah 26:4

But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:33

They are not humbled [even] unto this day, neither have they feared, nor walked in my law, nor in my statutes, that I set before you and before your fathers. Jeremiah 44:10

Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed [difference] between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Ezekiel 22:26

[Set] the trumpet to thy mouth. [He shall come] as an eagle against the house of the LORD, because they have transgressed my covenant, and trespassed against my law. Hosea 8:1​

I have written to him the great things of my law, [but] they were counted as a strange thing. Hosea 8:12

Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Genesis 26:5

And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? Exodus 16:28

And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; [and] they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths. Exekiel 44:24

For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hebrews 8:10

This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Hebrews 10:16​

...even as it is cited in the book of Hebrews:

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Hebrews 8:8

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. Hebrews 8:9

For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hebrews 8:10

And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. Hebrews 8:11​

For the other parts of Hebrews 8, see also Psalms 25:7; Isaiah 43:25; Hebrews 10:16-17.

This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Hebrews 10:16​

Who is the "them"? It is "the house of Israel" and "the house of Judah".

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Hebrews 10:17​

Who is the "their"? See above...

Those who disregard the 7th Day the Sabbath as one of God's "my laws" to be written upon the heart, don't claim to be of Israel [Hebrews 2:9-13; Isaiah 8:8-20 KJB], and they don't claim that Jesus Himself is Israel [Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; Romans 9:6-11; 1 Corinthians 15:44-46 KJB, and so how could a covenant [Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7; Acts 4:24, 14:15; Exodus 31:12-18; Revelation 14:6-7; Isaiah 66:23 KJB] ever be made with them?

Don't know what "law" they are talking about when they say Jesus died for their transgression of a "law". ... They have a 'new law' that Jesus never died for, shed no blood for, and have no High priest for, since their 'new law' is not in the Actual Ark in the true Temple in Heaven ...

For instance, someone who obviously does not understand Paul's central message, quoted to me my words the Christian is released from the law and dies to the law, alongside that, because I had written that, they accused me of believing Christ did away with the law. ...

Where is the 4th Commandment Marco70? What did Christ Jesus do with this specific commandment and the specific words therein, Exodus 20:8-11 KJB regarding the specific day, the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD. What do Christians do in relation to/with that specific day? Please consider telling me.

 

[Marco70]

It is sadly, easy to see those who have no true understanding of the outworking of the NC in peoples lives.

SDA agree, sin is the transgression of the law.
They also agree. Through the law we become conscioius of sin. Both of these things they endlessly repeat. They also believe, the law is written in the mind and placed on the heart of the believer.

And yet, somehow, they rationalise the born again believer can commit, what they regard as wilfull sin, without being conscious they sin by doing so. What more needs to be added?


Wisdom is always proved right by its inconsistencies

 

[Marco70]

I'm afraid people who just reel off the letter and demand of you what they do not demand of themselves will never understand the truth. So all they are left with is woodenly quoting the letter without understanding the true message contained in it, a perfect description of the Pharisees of Jesus day

 

[The7thColporteur]

Marco70 is it sin [1 John 3:4 KJB] for the Christian to transgress Exodus 20:8-11 in its specific words, yes/no? Why or why not? And if no what happened to it? Where is it?

God's Ten Commandments - - - - Marco70's 'law' on the heart
[01] Exodus 20:1-3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [01]
[02] Exodus 20:4-6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [02]
[03] Exodus 20:7 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [03]
[04] Exodus 20:8-11 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [??]
[05] Exodus 20:12 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [05]
[06] Exodus 20:13 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [06]
[07] Exodus 20:14 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [07]
[08] Exodus 20:15 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [08]
[09] Exodus 20:16 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [09]
[10] Exodus 20:17 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [10]

James 2:10 KJB - For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[Marco70]

Sadly, people who can only quote the letter, will never appreciate, or be able to discern spiritual reality.
God told Moses, the Israelites were a stiff necked, heathen people who would soon desert him once they reached the promised land. Most of the time they only sought to mechanically obey, as it were the legalistic law. They in their hearts, obviously did not want to reflect, and contemplate on God and His goodness to them. And so, it is obvious such people were instructed to put aside a certain day to reflect on God, his goodness to them and thank and praise him for his goodness to them.
However, under the NC, it is a very different covenant, as Jeremiah prophesied. Christ dwells in you through the Spirit. He lives in you. Now if Christ is in you, you cannot fail to meditate on him each and every day of your life(including Saturday). You will naturally reflect on God's goodness to you every day of the week and praise him from your heart for what he has done for you through Christ. The spiritual intent of the fourth commandment, in those TRULY born again is upheld seven days a week. You don't have to be instructed to follow it, you daily want to follow it.
And of course, Paul reasoned something along these lines himself:

One man considers one day more sacred/Holy than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in their own mind
Rom14:5

Of course, those who can only see the partial letter, cannot understand, or accept this, so they will just keep going with contradictory beliefs. Stating they accept as Christians people who have no consciousness of sin they believe concerns law that is written in their mind and placed on their heart, while at the same time relentlessly quoting 1John3:4&rom3:20
Oh well

 

[Marco70]

How can people expect the Holy Spirit to teach them truth, when they do not practice what they preach/they demand of others what they do not demand of themselves. Christ reserved his harshest words for such people. They will get no insight from the Holy Spirit of the true message. All they are left with, sadly is quoting the letter

 

[Marco70]

I have a wry smile when people who insist you must obey the law to remain in a saved state quote James2:10

Do these people themselves stumble, at even just one point concerning the law? Absolutely they do. Therefore, to quote their verse, they are guilty of breaking the entire law.
Kinda makes it difficult if you believe your judgement will be based on observing the TC doesn't it

 

[The7thColporteur]

... Now if Christ is in you, you cannot fail to meditate on him each and every day of your life(including Saturday). ...

Marco70, the Sabbath Commandment in Exodus 20:8-11; speaks of the 6 working days and the 7th of Rest. Worship to God is of course for every day, and is never the contention, but the contention is in the specificity of the rest and keeping the 7th Day Holy. If this is not done, knowingly, it is not kept, and neither the other 6, and thus neither is true worship to God in spirit and in truth.

So again my questions to you remains:

Marco70 is it sin [1 John 3:4 KJB] for the Christian to transgress Exodus 20:8-11 in its specific words, yes/no? Why or why not? And if no what happened to it? Where is it?

God's Ten Commandments - - - - Marco70's 'law' on the heart
[01] Exodus 20:1-3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [01]
[02] Exodus 20:4-6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [02]
[03] Exodus 20:7 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [03]
[04] Exodus 20:8-11 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [??]
[05] Exodus 20:12 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [05]
[06] Exodus 20:13 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [06]
[07] Exodus 20:14 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [07]
[08] Exodus 20:15 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [08]
[09] Exodus 20:16 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [09]
[10] Exodus 20:17 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [10]

James 2:10 KJB - For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Romans 14 cannot assist you in answering, since it deals with what "man esteems" among men, and we have been other that before, for what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination unto God [Luke 16:15 KJB].

God esteems His Holy Day, and it is sin to transgress it:

Isaiah 56:1 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

Isaiah 56:2 KJB - Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Isaiah 56:3 KJB - Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

Isaiah 56:4 KJB - For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Isaiah 56:5 KJB - Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

Isaiah 56:6 KJB - Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Isaiah 56:7 KJB - Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Isaiah 56:8 KJB - The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Isaiah 58:13 KJB - If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:​

 

[Marco70]

Of course, when you give people the answer to their question, they have to try and argue against the spiritual reality shown them. Nothing else sadly they can do. I feel sorry for those who feel they have to follow a commandment in order to reflect and contemplate on God's goodness to them on a certain day a week, they should insitinctively be doing that every single day(including Saturday)
Every day, you are meditating on God in one way or another. But alas, some can see no further than the ;letter itself, and when they are shown the truth from God's word they have to refuse to accept it.
Once again. In the TRULY born again Christian the spiritual intent of the fourth commandment, is upheld in the TRUE believer seven days a week, NOT ONE DAY

 

[The7thColporteur]

I have a wry smile when people who insist you must obey the law to remain in a saved state quote James2:10

You are teaching that Christians do not have to obey God's Law, the Ten Commandments [Exodus 20:1-17 KJB]? yes/no please, so we know where Marco70 stands.

... Do these people themselves stumble, at even just one point concerning the law? Absolutely they do. Therefore, to quote their verse, they are guilty of breaking the entire law.
Kinda makes it difficult if you believe your judgement will be based on observing the TC doesn't it

Stumbling isn't disregarding/ignoring/etc completely and altogether, now is it?

 

[Marco70]

If the spiritual intent of the fourth commandment is upheld in the believers life severn days a week they are in compliance with that intent. Of course, not everyone who goes to church is truly born again, and some follow after the written code rather than the Holy Spirit. It can only be one or the other(Rom7:6) Those who follow after the written code will never understand or be able to discern the spiritual reality of the NC, for only the Holy Spirit can lead the believer into truth. And they have rejected his leading, preferring to follow after the written code instead

 

[Marco70]

No Christian can ignore the law written in their mind and placed on their heart, and have no consciousness of sin concerning it. That is impossible, however, our sda friends disagree, though they relentlessly quote, 1John 3:4%Rom3:20

Oh well
Wisdom is always proved right by its inconsistencies

 

[The7thColporteur]

Marco70, BobS writes "... Paul writes that indeed Jesus did put an end to the Law. ..." - [Link]. Is BobS right or wrong? yes he is right, no he is wrong, please give examples of scripture.

Marco70, 1stcenturylady writes, "... All who follow Jesus do not sin 1 John 3:9, so what laws would they be breaking? None! ..." - [Link]. Is 1stcenturylady right or wrong? yes she is right, no she is wrong, please give examples of scripture.

 

[Marco70]

People who relentlessly state:
You must obey the TC, have little understanding of the core truth on which the Christian faith stands. The law God desires you to follow is within you, it is part of your dna, it s part of who you are. Telling people they must observe law that is in their mind and heart is pointless. And that law, is the law you sin by transgressing.
I have had much consciousness of sin in my life, but never once have I been conscious Ia sin by failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath