COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

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Marco70

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I can only repeat again. Scripturally speaking, those who most earnestly insisted you must fully obey the law to attain heaven/be in a saved state, were the most guilty of breaking the moral law. Same today, as we can clearly see on the internet
 
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Marco70

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The bible plainly states you are made alive with Christ EVEN WHEN you are dead in transgression. As the bible also plainly states, the believer dies to the law and is re;leased from the law. Those who follow after the written code do not understand what is written, so they argue against it, and accuse you of putting your own words over and above God's word, and/or they accuse you of saying Christ got rid of the law.
Tragic in truth, truly tragic. And of course, breaking the TC, without it seems a care in the world.
If they understood the truth, and followed it they would not so casually break God's moral law
 
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1stcenturylady

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1 JOHN 3:6-10 [6], Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins has not seen him, neither known him. [7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. [8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9], Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his nature remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

What does it mean to you that a Christian cannot sin? (v9)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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What does it mean to you that a Christian cannot sin? (v9)

Good question...

Abiding by FAITH in the WORD of GOD v6 (see also, Matthew 15:3-8) allowing God's SPIRIT to live and work within you to save you from the power of sin and death (Romans 8:1-4)

JOHN 6:63 [63], It is the spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

JOHN 17:17 [17], Sanctify them through your truth: your word is truth.

1 JOHN 3:9 [9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

LUKE 8:11 [11], Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

ANSWER: RIGHTEOUNESS BY FAITH brings the power of God's SPIRIT to love and love is the fulfilling of God's LAW (and WORD) in those who believe.
 
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Marco70

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It is indeed a tragic place to be, when all you can do is quote the letter that has no bearing on the reality of your own life. Just reel off pat statements from your head, that have no bearing on the reality of ones own life.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin 1John3:9

Yet the church of God in Corinth did commit sin.

This is the problem with only being able to quote randomly the letter, without understanding of the message the letter contains. You have to read the bible as a cohesive whole, and allow the Holy Spirit to teach you, otherwise all you can do is have a superfluous understanding of the partial letter itself. Spiritual truth can never be understood/discerned that way
You then end up reeling off the letter from your head that bears no reality in your own personal life, or anyone elses
 
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The7thColporteur

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"Covered" sins, vs "Blotted Out" sins ...

In the Sanctuary, the type/"pattern" [Exodus 25:1,8,9,40; Numbers 8:4; Joshua 22:28; 1 Chronicles 28:10-12,19; Ezekiel 43:10-12; Ephesians 1:20; Hebrews 8:1-6,, 9:23, 13:10; Daniel 8:11-14,26, 9:24, 11:31; Revelation 1:12,13, 3:7,8, 4:1,5, 11:1,19, 15:5 KJB] of the Plan of Redemption [Psalms 77:13 KJB], reveals that there are multiple stages of the eradication of sin, not just any single act of Jesus. The Cross was not the end, but the beginning, the laying of the Foundation Stone [it was that which was "finished" there, the perfect Character was laid, a sinless life, for it is impossible to have the Anti-typical Day of Atonement at the Cross for numerous scriptural reasons]:

Psalms 32:1 KJB - [[[A Psalm] of David, Maschil.]] Blessed [is he whose] transgression [is] forgiven, [whose] sin [is] covered.

Psalms 85:2 KJB - Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.​

It is clear that "forgiveness" is to "cover", not to "blot out", for to have ones "sins" "covered" "by the blood", which is "forgiveness", "remission", is "justification", and is not the same as having them "blotted out".

Even a dictionary will reveal the same as that which scripture [KJB] shows.

If Christ Jesus "blotted out" sins at the Cross, there was no need to "cover" anything, as there would be nothing to "cover". Since the shed blood of Christ Jesus did "cover" the sins, there is yet the need to blot them out.

Just a simple Biblical examination of the words "cover" and "blot out" will reveal that they are not equal, for example on the word "cover[ed]" as found in Psalms 32:1, 85:2:

Genesis 7:19 KJB - And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that [were] under the whole heaven, were covered.

Genesis 7:20 KJB - Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Psalms 104:6 KJB - Thou coveredst it with the deep as [with] a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

Psalms 104:9 KJB - Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

Exodus 33:22 KJB - And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

Genesis 38:15 KJB - When Judah saw her, he thought her [to be] an harlot; because she had covered her face.

Psalms 91:4 KJB - He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth [shall be thy] shield and buckler.

Deuteronomy 33:12 KJB - And of Benjamin he said, The beloved of the LORD shall dwell in safety by him; and the LORD shall cover him all the day long, and he shall dwell between his shoulders.​

etc.

Did the "covering" of waters in the days of Noah [Noe] erase the Mountains, or was Moses blotted out of existence by the hand of God, or those covered by the "Feathers" of God wiped out completely, or the Harlots face gone from behind a veil? Or rather did the "covering" simply place one thing over/on top of another thing, and both continued to exist, even protectively; like a dangerous hazmat container.

Consider that the two things, [1] "cover" and [2] "blot out" are separate and distinct things, not equal to one another, for if one sins are not "covered" by the blood, then they cannot be later "blotted out":

Nehemiah 4:5 KJB - And cover not their iniquity, and let not their sin be blotted out from before thee: for they have provoked thee to anger before the builders.

Jeremiah 18:23 KJB - Yet, LORD, thou knowest all their counsel against me to slay me: forgive not their iniquity, neither blot out their sin from thy sight, but let them be overthrown before thee; deal thus with them in the time of thine anger.​

Notice the words "and" and "neither", which are words of 'in addition, added to, conjunction, moreover, besides, also' - the definition of and

Furthermore we can re-examine the term "blot[ted] out", and see that it cannot mean of itself to "cover", as already shown:

Psalms 69:28 KJB - Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Psalms 109:13 KJB - Let his posterity be cut off; [and] in the generation following let their name be blotted out.

Psalms 109:14 KJB - Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.​
 
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The7thColporteur

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What then of the passages referred to in Psalms 51:1,9 and Isaiah 44:22? Look at the context, and modifiers especially of Isaiah 44:22:

Isaiah 44:22 KJB - I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.​

Notice in this instance, there are word modifiers to "blot out", being "as a thick cloud" and "as a cloud", which alters this particular definition, from destroy completely to cover/conceal completely, as in blot out from sight, but not blot out from existence. This is how "clouds" in scripture are spoken as "covering" something, concealing it from view, but not causing it to cease from existence.

For instance:

Exodus 24:15 KJB - And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.

Exodus 24:16 KJB - And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.

Exodus 40:34 KJB - Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.​

We can see that when a "cloud" "covers" something, even as the "waters cover the sea", or thick clouds the Sun, or the "blood of the Lamb" "covers" sin/s, it is not gone, but concealed behind something, as clothing covers, as Christ's righteousness:

Job 36:32 KJB - With clouds he covereth the light; and commandeth it [not to shine] by [the cloud] that cometh betwixt.​

Job 38:9 KJB - When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,

Psalm 105:39 KJB - He spread a cloud for a covering; and fire to give light in the night.

Lamentations 3:44 KJB - Thou hast covered thyself with a cloud, that [our] prayer should not pass through.

Ezekiel 32:7 KJB - And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.​

Is the Sea gone being covered by waters? Is the Sun removed from existence being covered by the thick clouds? Is then the sins blotted out from existence from being covered as a thick cloud covers, or are they still in existence but out of present sight?

This is the same as it is written here:

Micah 7:19 KJB - He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.​

Notice, that the sins are still in existence at the bottom of the "depths of the sea", even "covered by the waters", yet still needing to be dealt with which is exactly what Psalms 51 speaks of when it refers to the sins of David being blotted out [vs 1,9], since he knew of the Day of Atonement, in regards the Sanctuary:

Psalm 51:4 KJB - Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.​

Notice the two step process, which do not happen at the same time:

[1] Mercy/hide face = forgiveness, and

[2] Blot out the sins:

Psalm 51:1 KJB - [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.]] Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

Psalm 51:9 KJB - [1] Hide thy face from my sins, and [2] blot out all mine iniquities.​

It is clear that God would not have to "hide [cover] his face" from David's or our sins if doing so is to actually "blot" them out of existence. When the sins are truly "blotted out" God no longer has to "hide [cover] his face" from us, then we can see him face to face.

This is why David could say, himself knowing, that there was no other "pattern" of way, and required the High Priest, the Sanctuary, Ark, Blood, confessed and forsaken sin, and the Day of Atonement [Leviticus 16, 23] etc:

Psalms 77:33 KJB - Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

Exodus 28:15 KJB - And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; [of] gold, [of] blue, and [of] purple, and [of] scarlet, and [of] fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.

Exodus 28:29 KJB - And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy [place], for a memorial before the LORD continually.

Exodus 28:30 KJB - And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the LORD: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually.​

For if in the Day of Atonement the confessed sin was not actually forsaken, or other sins picked up in its place and not confessed and also forsaken, that person could be "cut off" forever, no matter how many times they had come throughout the year with Sacrifice:

Leviticus 23:29 KJB - For whatsoever soul [it be] that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.​

This is made clear through the very "pattern", in which in Leviticus 4, "an atonement" [Leviticus 4:20,26,31,35 KJB] could be made on any day throughout the Year, by a person bringing the required sacrifice, etc, and so that persons sins could be confessed over the sacrifice, transferred to the flesh and blood, and then the blood would be taken into the Sanctuary, where it was 'stored'.

While the person was "free", "justified", "forgiven", "covered", that person then had to go forth from the gate of the Sanctuary with the realization of the cost of sin to the Son of God and walk no more in sin [transgression of the Law, the Ten Commandments], and the Priest, and later High Priest had further work to do. This is the difference between atonements made in Leviticus 4 throughout the year, and the very specific and necessary Atonement in Leviticus 16, 23, in the Once a Year, the Day of Atonement.

Now, what has the "forgiven" sinner need of the Day of Atonement and that which is therein, if any such sinner had already throughout the year, already brought their sacrifice and was "covered" by the "blood" and "forgiven"? Much everything.

Differing Atonements. The first is for forgiveness, the latter for blotting out of the record of sin therein stored in the Sanctuary and its "cleansing" [Leviticus 16:19 KJB, etc]. It has been shown you many times about the Books of Heaven, and the sins therein recorded, yet it is connected with God's own people here, since the sinning must be eliminated totally from their lives, iow the actual committing of sin must be put to death through Christ Jesus.
 
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The7thColporteur

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Look again at the difference of the two things, [1] forgiveness and [2] blotting out:

This is even seen in several other places, in various ways:

1 John 1:9 KJB - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.​

[1] Forgiveness

[2] Cleansing

Two distinct things.​

Thus turning again to Acts 3:19-21, is already shown to be in the context of moments after the Cross, even after Pentecost and leading up to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ:

Acts 3:19 KJB - Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 3:20 KJB - And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:21 KJB - Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.​

The saints do not get to escape judgment, though they have an Advocate, Jesus Christ the Righteous:

Psalms 7:11 KJB - God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry [with the wicked] every day.

Psalms 37:33 KJB - The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.

Ecclesiastes 3:17 KJB - I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for [there is] a time there for every purpose and for every work.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 KJB - For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.​

As stated, there are the record Books of Heaven:

Jeremiah 2:22 KJB - For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, [yet] thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD.

Isaiah 56:6 KJB - Behold, [it is] written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,​

Isaiah 65:7 KJB - Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.​

The "blotting out" in Colossians 2:14 is another matter entirely, since it deals with "handwriting" [Leviticus 8:36, 10:11; 2 Chronicles 35:6 KJB, etc] by Moses of "ordinances", speaking to the specific matters of "ordinances" [Numbers 9:12; Ezekiel 43:18, etc], hand written by Moses, in regards the Old Covenant ritual [see also Ephesians 2:15, "the law of commandments contained in ordinances" and Hebrews 9:1, "... the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary." and Hebrews 9:10 "Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation."]:

Colossians 2:14 KJB - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;​

Q. Where is the word sin/s used here in regards to the "blotting out" in vs 14? It is not found at all in vs 14 and the "blotting out" does not reference the sins of vs 13, but is specifically identified in vs 14.

Furthermore in vs 20, we see the word "ordinances" again used in connection with "worldly" human things, "the rudiments of the world" and "subject to ordinances", which are listed in vs 21-23, -- 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

The word "sins" is found in vs 13, but it speaks only of forgiven sins, which as demonstrated is not the same thing as sins "blotted out".

What then of Hebrews 1:3 KJB?

Hebrews 1:3 KJB - Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;​

Hebrews 9:14 KJB - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?​

Hebrews 1:3 KJB is speaking of the 'purging' or the "washing away" of our past sins from us by the one time all sufficient propitiative sacrifice of Jesus, for the word [καθαρισμός] utilized is also found in 2 Peter 1:9, "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from 2512 his old sins."; and also used in Mark 1:44; Luke 2:22, 5:14; John 2:6, 3:25, besides Hebrews 1:3; 2 Peter 1:9. This is related to the word καθαρίζω, which means to cleanse, purify, or to free from the guilt of sin. Notice, it does not blot out any of the record of sin recorded in Heaven, but frees us from the guilt of past sins, by the forgiveness of past sins. Notice, none of the texts which uses the word καθαρισμός say anything about blotting out of the record of the sins in Heaven. This is why in Acts 22:16, and elsewhere, we may arise and "wash away [our] sins" [and a person washed can return to being unwashed, 2 Peter 2:22 KJB].

Romans 3:25 KJB - Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;​

Revelation 1:5 KJB - And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Psalms 85:2 KJB - Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.​

But sin that is covered, is not blotted out, but remains to be dealt with still, therefore it is a period of probationary time granted, a time of testing, though we are free in Grace to live in obedience to His will [Psalms 40:8 KJB], we do not have to continue in abiding in Him, for our free choice is still ours, even throughout eternity, but if in spite of that Grace we live in sin still, Matthew 18 KJB, reveals, as did the type, there is the "Day of Atonement" to come to reckoning, and the payment could be reinstituted, and the person cut off of life forever.
 
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The7thColporteur

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Though we, which are Christians, are washed of past sins, the blotting out of sins was/is still yet future, for there was yet more to be dealt with still, even as the type revealed, given unto us by God in the earthly sanctuary service. A person which sinned [1 John 3:4 KJB], could come throughout the year and make "an atonement", but that person's sin while removed from them in faith, from themselves, went unto/transfered unto another, and further work was to be done even from the gate - in both directions. Justification is worthless without sanctification. Forgiveness of sins, worthless without victory over sins. This is the Everlasting Gospel, and Christ Jesus proved that sinful flesh, by the power of the divine, could live righteously and without sin - thus sin was condemned in the sinful flesh, and there is no excuse for sin - none. Satan is the liar. Mankind can obey God, even in His Ten Commandments by the indwelling of God in them, and every thought may be brought into subjection to Christ. Yes, we can have victory over every temptation and sin, here, now, in this life, even beginning this very moment - and we may do it even as Christ overcame.

Acts 3:19 KJB - Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;​

"may be", "shall come", and in the context of the very next verse "ὅπως" [so that; KJB 'and'],

Acts 3:20 KJB - And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:21 KJB - Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
James speaks about the same:

James 5:7 KJB - Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.​

Other texts to consider on the refreshing and latter rains, Deuteronomy 11:14; Job 29:23; Proverbs 16:15; Jeremiah 3:3 [especially that one], 5:24; Joel 2:23; Hosea 6:3; Zechariah 10:1 and Isaiah 28:12; Deuteronomy 32:2; Revelation 11:6; James 5:17; 1 Kings 17:1, 18:1,44-45; Matthew 7:25,27 [and that Latter Rain will come, and will ripen the Wheat Harvest, and also the Tare Harvest, the Rain comes to both, even as the Sun softens one, hardens another...]

Notice, that the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord, which Christ will have then blotted out the sins in the Heavenly Most Holy, and then the Father sends Jesus Christ the second time after ward, as it is written:

Hebrews 9:28 KJB - So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hosea 6:3 KJB - Then shall we know, [if] we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter [and] former rain unto the earth.​

God will be vindicated, Romans 3:4 KJB. Not only did God prove it in Christ Jesus the Head, He is going to fulfill His promise and prove it many times over in the "144,000", for He will have taken sinners, and brought them about to the uttermost, into being total overcomers in sinful flesh - never to sin again, beginning on this earth, ready to be translated.

Behold and marvel ye heavens, be humbled o earth, for what God is about to bring forth, never will be seen again throughout eternity!

As the Head [Christ] was victorious and bruised the head of the serpent, even so the foot [of His body, the last portion, the remnant of the body] by Christ Jesus will so completely crush the serpent [Romans 16:20].

Scripturally there are multiple "atonements", for instance:

an "atonement" that could be done throughout the year on any day, "daily":

Leviticus 4:20 KJB - And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

Leviticus 4:26 KJB - And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 4:31 KJB - And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn [it] upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 4:35 KJB - And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.​

but "forgiveness" of sins, and this "an atonement" does not blot anything out of the record of that sin. The sinner was forgiven at the very gate, but more was then needed from that point onward, and could not be finalized until the Day of Atonement - see also Matthew 18, etc. Forgiveness/remission is but the covering of sin, not the blotting out of sin. Another thing that these passages reveal is that sin is not merely being born, but something that is "committed" [see also 1 John 3:4], and also even something omitted.

Q. Yet if truly atoned and forgiven, why the need for the Day of Atonement services, which are a type? and ...

Q. If forgiveness blotted out sin, why the need to remove, in the type, that which was in type, stored daily, and throughout the year?

It is simple, forgiveness does not blot out sin. To blot out sin, another work is needed.

and so there is the final "atonement" that could only be made once in the year, the Day of Atonement, that every single person must go through, or be cut off [Yom Kippur]:

Leviticus 23:28 KJB - And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it [is] a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
Right back to Daniel 8:13-14,26, and the matter of the 7th Day, the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, a work of God that is coming to a close, soon it will again be said "It is finished".

But we can look at places like Matthew 18, to see that sins can be unforgiven, uncovered and placed back upon the transgressor while the probation time is open.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Look again at the difference of the two things, [1] forgiveness and [2] blotting out:

AWSOME!!!!!!! I love this covering and blotting out study! It ties very nicely into my SHADOW study and links very nicely into the YEARLY DAY OF ATONEMENT from Leviticus 23:27-30 and will also link right into the Prophecies Daniel and the GREAT DAY of atonements 2300 day/year prophecy in the Heavenly Sanctuary and Hebrews!

I might use some of the study you have provided above. Linking the SHADOWS to the HEVENLY!

Many thanks for your time in sharing this. :D
 
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1stcenturylady

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Good question...

Abiding by FAITH in the WORD of GOD v6 (see also, Matthew 15:3-8) allowing God's SPIRIT to live and work within you to save you from the power of sin and death (Romans 8:1-4)

JOHN 6:63 [63], It is the spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

JOHN 17:17 [17], Sanctify them through your truth: your word is truth.

1 JOHN 3:9 [9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

LUKE 8:11 [11], Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

ANSWER: RIGHTEOUNESS BY FAITH brings the power of God's SPIRIT to love and love is the fulfilling of God's LAW (and WORD) in those who believe.

No, dear, not in this verse. The seed is the Holy Spirit Christ gives us to empower us. The seed produces the fruit of the Spirit. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that makes us dead to sin, and thus, "cannot sin."

It certainly wouldn't be the 10C which shows us our sin, but does nothing to prevent us from sin. In this case it is solely the Holy Spirit as clearly taught by the apostles.
 
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Marco70

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But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself Heb 9:26

If Jesus only died for past sins, the believer must live their life under a righteousness of observing the law, that is irrefutable

I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing Gal2:21

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth Rom 10:4

Not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law but that which is by faith in Christ. The righteousness that comes from God and is b y faith Phil3:9

The above are false statements, if Jesus only died for past sins.

I must say, one might consider the OC preferable to some peoples version of the new one. Which is, commit a sin and you are immediately placed in an unsaved state, for you are of the devil and never knew God. But then, the people preaching this nonsense commit sin themselves, so they condemn themselves, but appear oblivious to it
 
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The7thColporteur

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...If Jesus only died for past sins...
There is a sacrifice [Jesus] and there is also a Highpriest [Jesus], and both utilize the shed blood of Jesus and there are three phases of the plan of redemption as seen in the Sanctuary [Psalms 77:13 KJB], as seen here [Link] -

Justification [Courtyard] and Sanctification [Holy Place] are two things, yet linked, Glorification the third [Most Holy Place], again linked.

Romans 3:25 KJB - Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;​

1 John 1:7 KJB - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 John 1:9 KJB - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:1 KJB - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Each and every sin must be repented of, in their entirety, when coming to Christ for the first time [washed], and every time thereafter to obtain strength to overcome any sin fallen into, so that each and every single sin is no longer committed [thus the cleansing].

Grace is not to be confused with presumption, for Grace is given for repentance.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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No, dear, not in this verse. The seed is the Holy Spirit Christ gives us to empower us. The seed produces the fruit of the Spirit. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that makes us dead to sin, and thus, "cannot sin."

It certainly wouldn't be the 10C which shows us our sin, but does nothing to prevent us from sin. In this case it is solely the Holy Spirit as clearly taught by the apostles.

Your question was ...

1stcenturylady said: What does it mean to you that a Christian cannot sin? (1JOHN 3v9)

(full scripture reference added in red by me)

The scripture says...

1 JOHN 3:9 [9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

we can link this to...

JOHN 3:3-6 [3], Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [4], Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?[5], Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [6], That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [8] The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

to which I responded...
LoveGodsWord said: Good question...
Abiding by FAITH in the WORD of GOD v6 (see also, Matthew 15:3-8) allowing God's SPIRIT to live and work within you to save you from the power of sin and death (Romans 8:1-4)

JOHN 6:63 [63], It is the spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

JOHN 17:17 [17], Sanctify them through your truth: your word is truth.

1 JOHN 3:9 [9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

LUKE 8:11 [11], Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

ANSWER: RIGHTEOUNESS BY FAITH brings the power of God's SPIRIT to love and love is the fulfilling of God's LAW (and WORD) in those who believe

To which you agreed to and now you say you do not agree. So you have changed your mind. o_O?

I am not disagreeing God's true followers are born of God's SPIRIT. What I am saying further is that God's SPIRIT is the SPIRIT of TRUTH and only comes by FAITH in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW the WORD of truth.

You
cannot separate God's WORD from God's SPIRIT as the SPIRIT of TRUTH works through the WORD of truth.

Anyhow the answer provided above is correct. You cannot have God's Spirit without OBEDIENCE to God's WORD (ACTS 5:32).

God's Spirit is the SPIRIT of TRUTH (JOHN 16:13; 6:63; 14:17; 15:26) - God's WORD is TRUTH (JOHN 17:17; 1 JOHN 3:9; LUKE 8:11) - God's WORD says the SEED represents the WORD of GOD (LUKE 8:11) and that we are sanctifed by it through faith by God's Spirit (1 PETER 1:22; 2 THESSELONIANS 2:13; JOHN 17:17).


GOD'S SPIRIT is the POWER behind God's WORD as we BELIEVE (ROMANS 1:16; 15:13; 1 CORINTHIANS 1:18; 2 CORINTHIANS 6:7; 1 PETER 1:5)

Only those who through FAITH in GOD'S WORD, RECEIVE God's SPIRIT to WALK in his WORD in LOVE to FOLLOW him who forst LOVED US (ROMANS 1:17; 3:22; GALATIANS 5:5; PHILIPPIANS 3:9; 2 PETER 1:4)

Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. You cannot separate the SPIRIT of truth from the WORD of truth.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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Marco70

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Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect for ever those who are being(being) made holy.
Heb10:11-14

Those who only have the ability to quote the partial letter and make their demands concerning it, will never practice what they preach, for, the letter kills. They miss out on the underlying thing that saves us all. The great love, mercy passion of God for his children. No love at all in throwing a child out of the house if he infringes the parents rules, not allowing him back in until he earnestly repents
 
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The7thColporteur

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LoveGodsWord

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And God's people, along with all the unfallen intelligences said, "Amen and Amen."

Thank God that it is so.

INDEED T7C, The GOSPEL is the POWER OF GOD unto SALVATION from SIN in everyone who BELIEVES.

It is not hard like many make out and God's WORD is God's POWER unto SALVATION from SIN in everyone who BELIEVES...

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU KNOW GOD?

1 John 2
3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3
3,
And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5,
And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you:
he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

..................

WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE?

Revelation 12
17,
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

Revelation 14
12,
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

..................

WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

Revelation 22
14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life,
and may enter in through the gates into the city.

..................

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

ROMANS 1:5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

Romans 6:1-2, [1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. [2], How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

..................

DOES FAITH ABOLISH GOD'S LAW?

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

..................

WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THOSE WHO CONTINUE IN SIN ONCE THEY RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH?

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Indeed, those who CONTINUE IN SIN will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

..................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

..................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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Marco70

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I guess the internet is perfect for some(some) who have gained their 'knowledge' through private study and see themselves as guiding lights to others. On the plus side, people rarely, if ever change their mind on websites such as these, so little damage is done
 
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Marco70

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So why, do people quote the letter and demand of you what they do not demand of themselves? Why do they in truth condemn themselves by what they write? For assuredly they themselves commit sin. Have they no fear of God? Do they not know Jesus words?
The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you Matt7:2
How, or why can people seem not to care if they condemn themselves by reeling off the partial letter of scripture they themselves cannot and do not live up to?
Because something matters more to them, than anything else. And it matters more than caring even if they condemn themselves by what they write.
As the Pharisees were guilty of: They love the praise of men more than the praise of God. They are really saying: Look at me, I do not commit sin, you must attain to where I am at.


As Jesus said:
The measure you use to judge others, will be used to judge you Matt7:2
 
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