• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Aug 10, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Marco70

    Marco70 Well-Known Member

    +260
    Zimbabwe
    Christian
    Single
    Of course, biblically speaking, those who most earnestly preached you must obey the law to a very high standard to be in a saved state, were, as we know the most guilty of sin.
     
  2. Marco70

    Marco70 Well-Known Member

    +260
    Zimbabwe
    Christian
    Single
    For example, I asked one of the main sda protaginists here if they refused to invite friends and family home for a meal, but rather the lame, poor blind and beggars so they may receive their reward in heaven.

    I got no response
     
  3. Marco70

    Marco70 Well-Known Member

    +260
    Zimbabwe
    Christian
    Single
    It was this way 2000 years ago, and assuredly it is today also. Those in Jesus day who relentlessly quoted the letter of the law and demanded the people fully obey it, cleaned the outside of the cup but not the inside. They did not practice what they preached/demanded of others.
    The two commandments on which the entire law hung were ignored
     
  4. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +265
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    ... edited [you had been shown, and it was enough] ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
  5. Marco70

    Marco70 Well-Known Member

    +260
    Zimbabwe
    Christian
    Single
    Of course, the Pharisees of Jesus day did good works, that everyone could see, but it made no difference. They would not have gotten drunk, used foul language, had affairs/commit adultery, they went to the synagogue every Saturday, knew the literal words of the then scriptures inside and out, tithed down to their last mint dil and cumin. Invited people home for a meal. They even laid flowers on the graves of the prophets murdered by their forefathers and said: We would never have acted as they did.
    But it was not enough, Jesus told them they did not even know his Father.
    For they did not practice what they preached/demanded of others. No love in that is there
     
  6. Marco70

    Marco70 Well-Known Member

    +260
    Zimbabwe
    Christian
    Single
    Biblically speaking, according to Paul's core message, the more you try and justify your Christianity/being in a saved state according to, or hinging on observing the law, the more corrupted you must become. If you tell someone they can only be in a saved state if they observe the law, what results? Do they look to Christ or the law, in the real world? They must look to what their continual salvation/being saved hinges on, that is irrefutable. They can only then be righteous before God in their walk if they observer the law, the core message of the person who wrote half the books of the NT is being ignored.
    If you in your heart have no conviction of sin you cannot be a Christian. No born again Christian can happily sin as much as they want without conscience for the law is in their heart. And in their heart they want to obey it, and they are acutely aware/grieved of their shortcomings. It does absolutely no good at all to preach law to such people, it is pointless, and can only harm them, for you simply make them feel worse than they already do for their shortcomings. That, is the spiritual reality of the NC.

    And as one brother commented, well I thought:

    If the moral law is within you, in your heart and mind, how on earth can you convince yourself you fully obey it?
     
  7. Marco70

    Marco70 Well-Known Member

    +260
    Zimbabwe
    Christian
    Single
    4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,a]'>[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
    Rom 7:4-6

    When you quote the above to those who preach law, and do not understand the message they accuse you of putting your own words over and above Gaod's word, they accuse you of saying Christ got rid of the law. It is all lies, based on their inability to understasnd the message, and their stubborn refusal to accept it. Why did Paul write the above to Christians? Because he knew Christians had to die to the law, be released from the law, if this was not the case he obviously would not have written to his ''brothers'' and told them they must die to the law and be released from the law.
    But Paul is referring in those words to dying to a law of righteousness and following after the Holy Spirit, not the written code/law.
    1)Why was Paul so insistent Christians must die to a law of righteousness?
    Well in the next five verses he tells you:

    What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

    8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

    9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

    10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

    11 For sin, taking occasion of the commandment deceived me, and by it slew me


    Paul knew, if believers did not die to a righteousness of observing the law, what happened to him as a Pharisee would happen to them as Christians. Christian counsellors can endorse this truth, for many of them try and help people who became Christians and ended up consumed by all manner of concupiscence.

    So why do you follow after the Holy Spirit, not the written code? The more you look to Christ(by following after the Holy Spirit) and trust him to do in you through the Spirit what you are incapable of doing for yourself, the more the fruit of the spirit grows in you. That fruit is:
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    Gal5:22&23

    That is the way to live a Godly life, for the fruit of the Spirit encompasses the heart of how God wants you to live, and it does not bring you into conflict with any good and Holy law of God he wants you to follow. Hence: Against such things there is no law.
    Look to the law and tell yourself if you don't obey it you are placed in an unsaved state, and sins power remains firmly in place in your life, for: The power of sin is the law(of righteousness)) 1Cor 15:56

    Follow after the Spirit into the fruits of the Spirit and the power of sin is removed from your life. And this is the beauty of the NC. There is no licence to sin by not focusing on the law itself, for you in your heart want to live as God desires you to live for that is where the law has been placed, and it will NEVER be removed as long as you live.
     
  8. Marco70

    Marco70 Well-Known Member

    +260
    Zimbabwe
    Christian
    Single
    The power of sin is the law(righteousness of observing the law) 1Cor15:56

    Therefore, God did an amazing thing. He transferred the law he desires you to follow from an external law written on tablets of stone to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts(2cor3:3) Because the law is in your heart, you in your heart want to live as God desires you to live. Because, and only because this has happened: Your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more. Righteousness of observing the law has ended(Rom10:4) And with it being ended the true power of sin has been removed from the believers life.
    The born again believers heartfelt desire to obey(for that is where the law has been placed) can now come to fruition, for what opposes obedience(sin) was dealt a crushing blow by Christ dying to remove its true power from the believers life(righteousness of observing the law.
    And so Paul states:
    For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law(righteousness of observing the law) but under grace(righteousness of faith in Christ) Rom 6:14


    However, it is utterly impossible to have true grace, and the victory over sin Paul earnestly preached, if, you insist you must look to the law and strive to obey it to remain in a saved state. Your righteousness is then undoubtedly, observing the law
     
  9. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +265
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    Back to Colossians 2 KJB, we read:

    Colossians 2:1 KJB - For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
    Further we read in Colossians:

    Colossians 4:13 KJB - For I bear him record, that he hath a great zeal for you, and them that are in Laodicea, and them in Hierapolis.

    Colossians 4:15 KJB - Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.

    Colossians 4:16 KJB - And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

    And if there is any help in the notations:

    1 Timothy 6:20 KJB - O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

    1 Timothy 6:21 KJB - Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

    [The first to Timothy was written from Laodicea, which is the chiefest city of Phrygia Pacatiana.]

    Therefore, there is a connection to "Laodicea" of Revelation 3:14-22 KJB:

    Revelation 3:14 KJB - And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

    [because they did not head the warning to Timothy to avoid the "oppositions of science falsely so called" [they love "Sci-Fi" rather than the True JEHOVAH Elohiym, and because they loved to believe a lie, they will receive the strong delusion [2 Thessalonians 2:11 KJB], they believe in 'evolution', in the physical and spiritual - Creation or Evolution, Which? ]
    Revelation 3:15 KJB - I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

    Revelation 3:16 KJB - So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

    Revelation 3:17 KJB - Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

    Many church members are even now in this condition that Paul describes, before their surrender:

    Romans 7:24 KJB - O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
    Their old man of sin still clings to them, a rotting stinking unclean corpse, and they hold "conversation" [Ephesians 4:22 KJB] with their old man of sin, which is spiritual necromancy, see here - [Link, beware its a "Congregational Zone, SDA members"]
    Revelation 3:18 KJB - I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

    Revelation 3:19 KJB - As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

    Revelation 3:20 KJB - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

    Revelation 3:21 KJB - To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

    Revelation 3:22 KJB - He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.​
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +2,564
    Australia
    SDA
    Married

    Interesting study about Revelation and the church of Laodecea. These thought they were rich and increased with good and had need of nothing and did not know their standing with God. They lost their mirror and felt no need of the true physician. This is a message for us all.
     
  11. FredVB

    FredVB Regular Member

    +563
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Colossians 2:14-17,
    14,
    Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath(s): 17, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    Key phrases in this group of scripture passages are the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, and Let no man therefore judge you. This applies to those who are in Christ, specifically. Yahweh will not have them in judgment, Christ who we come to be in bore all that, so we should not hold each other in any judgment. And justice demanded by the law is what Christ bore, so we in him are not subject to that justice. Our freedom from that is for freely turning from life of sin, to not go on sinning as we had, but seek to live according to God's will for us, more and more, with God's help, with God's Spirit. Yahweh's perfect will for us will matter in that.
     
  12. Marco70

    Marco70 Well-Known Member

    +260
    Zimbabwe
    Christian
    Single
    You are obviously someone who follows after the Holy Spirit rather than the written code(rom 7:6) But not all do, as I imagine you will soon see.
    God bless
     
  13. Marco70

    Marco70 Well-Known Member

    +260
    Zimbabwe
    Christian
    Single
    1. The Pharisees

      Growing up, I imagined the Pharisees as people with horns coming out of their heads, don't know why. Maybe I just thought they would be easy to spot a mile off. But in real life of course, things are not that simple. They fooled the people after all. They, and the teachers of the law dedicated their lives to teaching the people what they must do to attain heaven, and I am sure they endlessly quoted scripture to do it. The Pharisees would have known the letter of the then scriptures inside and out. They were highly intelligent/very learned people, who would have dressed immaculately. And they were sticklers for obeying the law, and insisting the people must if they wanted to attain heaven(or remain in a saved state we could say) They attended all the synagogue meetings, and would have strictly observed a seventh day Sabbath, they did good deeds that everyone could see, they tithed down to their last mint, dil and cumin. They would not have gotten drunk, used foul language, had affairs, nor smoked I imagine if smoking had then been invented. They even laid flowers on the graves of the prophets murdered by their forefathers and said: We would never have acted as they did. All this and they would endlessly have quoted scripture to the people. So why was Jesus so appalled at the Pharisees?

    2. How can you say, ‘We are wise,
      for we have the law of the Lord,’
      when actually the lying pen of the scribes
      has handled it falsely? Jeremiah 8:8
      The Pharisees turned the law into what heaven hinged on at its core, they used it falsely. What did King David ultimately rely on?

      I trust in God's unfailing love forever and ever

      Entirely different from trusting in obeying the law to attain Heaven. For David knew, no one could be truly righteous before God under the law:
      Do not bring your servant into judgement, for NO ONE LIVING is righteous before you Psalms143:2
      David loved God, and knew he was secure in God's love for him, because of that, he obeyed out of love for God, not because he thought he could have a truer righteousness by doing so.
      Contrast that with the Pharisees. Heaven hinged on observing the law.

    By their attitude they neglected what mattered most:
    Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God Luke11:42

    It was all about fully obeying the law to enter heaven, that was the bottom line, not God's unfailing love. And so they neglected the love of God, and ignored the greatest commandment of all. They probably told the people they taught what they did out of love for them, so they may have eternal life. Wolves in sheeps clothing. But what was the reality? As the Pharisees focused on the law, that was the bottom line, the people became crushed, downtrodden, oppressed and blind to the truth. They would have imagined the Pharisees had attained on the inside, what they showed on the outside. That would crush the people don't you think? for they, in humility and honesty would know they were not perfect on the inside. They would have been crushed by the teaching of the Pharisees, and become guilt ridden I imagine. But Jesus of course was not fooled. These people, who dedicated their lives to teaching others to fully obey the law to enter heaven, did not practice what they preached:
    The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practise what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. Matt23:2-4

    Paul tells us Christ's law is fulfilled by carrying each others burdens(Gal2:6) The Pharisees failed abysmally to obey Christ's law. They did not carry peoples burdens, they crushed them with burdens they themselves did not even try to bear. So what were these people, who insisted you must fully obey the law to enter heaven/be in a saved state like on the inside?

    Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. Matt23:27&28
    Were the Pharisees of Jesus day the only ones like this? Paul goes into detail about his life as a Pharisee in Rom ch7. He was just like the other Pharisees, full of everything unclean on the inside. He told Timothy he was the worst of sinners. Though outwardly, he would have faultlessly obeyed the law.
    And so the people who dedicated their lives to teaching the law to the people and insisted they must fully obey it to attain heaven, did not practice what they preached, and were full of everything unclean on the inside. Would it be any different today?
    So why did they like to portray themselves as such Holy people who fully obeyed the law(didn't commit sin) when they did not? Why be hypocrites? Why crush the people and show them no love at all by doing so? Why trample on them that way, and ignore the most important thing of all, love? Because They loved, and sought the praise of men more than the praise of God(John 12:43&John5:44)
    It was like: Look at me, I live such a holy life, you need to attain to where I am at. Awful isn't it.
    Do pharisees exist today? I would think so, you can find them in churches I imagine, possibly even on the internet
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +2,564
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Hi FredVB, AMEN, nice to meet you and thanks for sharing. :oldthumbsup:

    SIN is indeed breaking God's Commandments and Salvation is from SIN not in SIN like some believe.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  15. Marco70

    Marco70 Well-Known Member

    +260
    Zimbabwe
    Christian
    Single
    But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions – it is by grace you have been saved

    Eph2:5

    Like Paul you mean
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +2,564
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Absolutely. Those who continue in SIN are still dead in SIN.

    ROMANS 6:1-2 [2], What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?[2], God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer in it?

    Many do not know what GRACE is for..

    ROMANS 1:5 [5], By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for OBEDIENCE to the faith among all nations, for his name:

    ROAMNS 16:26[26], But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

    ROMANS 6:17-18 [17], But God be thanked, that you were the servants of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. [18], Being then made free from sin, you became the servants of righteousness.

    ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    Grace without obedience is not God's GRACE (James 2:18-20; 26).

    It seems God's WORD disagrees with you.

    ................

    SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

    Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    ................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
     
  17. Marco70

    Marco70 Well-Known Member

    +260
    Zimbabwe
    Christian
    Single
    Well we have already irrefutably established you do not understand the message in the letter you quote,
    God's word plainly states the believer is made alive with Christ/saved, even when they are dead in transgression/sin

    Of course, if you want to refuse to accept what God's word plainly states you are entitled to do so I guess-for now
     
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +2,564
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    No you didn't you have only provided your own words over God's WORD. It is your understanding of the scripture that God's WORD shows your error.

    Disagree? Prove the posts and scriptures posted to you are not correct? If you cannot maybe you can pray about it more at home.
     
  19. Marco70

    Marco70 Well-Known Member

    +260
    Zimbabwe
    Christian
    Single
    But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions – it is by grace you have been saved

    Eph2:5

    It reminds me of you constantly telling me I put my own words over and above God's word when I copy/pasted rom 7:4-6 from bible gateway.

    You really have no qualms at all about breaking the TC do you
     
  20. Marco70

    Marco70 Well-Known Member

    +260
    Zimbabwe
    Christian
    Single
    I quoted God's word to you. The believer is made alive with Christ even when they are dead in transgression. If you want to try and make scripture contradict scripture, find someone else to aid you
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...