COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

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Marco70

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You are dodging what I specifically asked.
Not at all. I have responded and am happy to further. But firstly, why are you dodging producing the post where I stated Christ did away with the law. And if you cannot produce it, why have you not apologised for bearing false witness against me?
I hope you are not someone who preaches one thing and practices another yourself. As you know, Jesus reserved his harshest words for such people
 
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Marco70

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Then yes or no please:

The Ten Commandments are to be obeyed by the Christian, yes or no?​

Simple.
I am close to placing you back on ignore, then respond generally to the question.
It appears you are not in the slightest concerned at obeying the TC. For you have not apologised for bearing false witness against me.
I will give you one last chance to apologise, if you do not I will immediately place you on ignore.
BTW
The first thing you should do when you sin against another is to apologise, before you want to continue debating
 
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The7thColporteur

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I am close to placing you back on ignore, then respond generally to the question
Easy to ignore the Truth. Your prerogative. The Pharisees also stuffed the ears with their fingers. Didn't help them any.

It appears you are not in the slightest concerned at obeying the TC. ...
You refuse to answer my question with a simple yes or no, which proves what I stated. You are dodging, to appear innocent.

...For you have not apologised for bearing false witness against me. ...
If you would say "Yes" to my question, I can apologize, but presently you say nothing.

...I will give you one last chance to apologise, if you do not I will immediately place you on ignore.
BTW
Your prerogative, easy to do.

You stated:

"... And Paul certainly did tell Christians they are released from the law and die to the law. As you appear unwilling-or unable to explain the verses, I see no value in continuing this conversation ..." - Marco70

"... Those verses state the Christian dies to the law and is released from the law. It isnt my interpretation, it is what Paul plainly stated. ..." - Marco70

The first thing you should do when you sin against another is to apologise, before you want to continue debating
Answer "yes" to my specific question, and I can apologize.
 
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Marco70

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Easy to ignore the Truth. Your prerogative. The Pharisees also stuffed the ears with their fingers. Didn't help them any.

You refuse to answer my question with a simple yes or no, which proves what I stated. You are dodging, to appear innocent.

If you would say "Yes" to my question, I can apologize, but presently you say nothing.

Your prerogative, easy to do.

You stated:

"... And Paul certainly did tell Christians they are released from the law and die to the law. As you appear unwilling-or unable to explain the verses, I see no value in continuing this conversation ..." - Marco70

"... Those verses state the Christian dies to the law and is released from the law. It isnt my interpretation, it is what Paul plainly stated. ..." - Marco70

Answer "yes" to my specific question, and I can apologize.
I'm afraid it shows your ignorance of the NC. I did indeed quote Pauls words where he stated the Christian dies to the law and is released from the law. Sadly, you either do not understand the message, or you are seeking to justify bearing false witness against me. As you believe you understand much you must therefore be seeking to excuse sin, so I will place you on ignore, again. Bye
 
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Marco70

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The Ten Commandments are to be obeyed by the Christian, yes or no?

Before I respond to the above, I have to say, we yet again see those who most earnestly insist you must obey the TC, have no conscience whatsoever it seems at breaking them. I have many times stated this, and people appear only too willing to endorse my view. It is, utter hypocrisy.
When Paul states we die to the ;law, are released from the law, he means the following:
Christ is the end of the law, unto righteousness for everyone who believeth Rom 10:4

It appears, many who preach law find it hard to grasp the rudiments of Paul's message. Which is no suprise, for as Paul said. You either follow after the Holy Spirit or the written code/law. You cannot do both, and only the Holy Spirit can lead into truth.
I will address the question in a second post
 
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Marco70

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The Ten Commandments are to be obeyed by the Christian, yes or no?


Even to ask such a question is a complete failure to understand the NC I am afraid. And of course, it is being stated with the intention that if you do not obey the law Paul referred to as the ministry of death and condemnation/the letter that kills you cannot be in a saved state, which is preaching righteousness of observing the law.
The law God desires you to follow is within you. It is written in your mind and placed on your heart. You in your mind must know what has been placed there, and you MUST have heartfelt conviction of sin if you wilfully transgress that law, for: Sin is the transgression of the law. and through the law we become conscious of sin. There is no hiding from that law, and every true Christian in their heart wants to obey it, for that is where the law has been placed. I can testify, it is in my heart that I should love God with all my heart. body soul, mind and strength, not have any God's apart from my Father in heaven. It is in my heart that I should have no graven images in my mind, I should not take the Lords name in vain, I should honour my parents, not murder, steal, commit adultery, bear false witness or covet. That is part of my life, my dna if you like, for the law is in my most inward parts. However, I have no consciousness of sin whatsoever by failing to observe a set saturday Sabbath.
Do I concentrate on law then? No! I must look to Christ, not the law or I will sink, for I know what those who preach law prove, you will always fail to obey the letter of it, for the letter kills. By the law being placed within you, it simply means you in your heart want to live as God desires you to live. The law has no power to condemn the born again Christian, for their righteousness is faith in Christ, not observing the law. And when the true Christian wilfully commits sin against the law within them, their conscience is seered for they are going against how they in their heart know they should live and want to live. And they will have no rest, and no peace until they come before their father in heaven and say sorry for their folly.
Because, and only because the law has been placed within you, you have a saviour from sin, your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more.
So what is written in nine of the TC is within me, but I never think of the 'TC' as such, not at all, I don't need to, I in my heart simply desire to live as God wants me to live.

Those who relentlessly preach: You must obey the TC sadly have little if any understanding of the NC, or the core terms of it, but as Jesus said:

Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say the old is better
Luke5:39

And in nearly fifty years of going to various churches I have found it always to be the same. Those who most insist you must obey the law to enter heaven, least reflect in their lives what Christ terms the higher points of the law. And as we have seen in this thread, they appear not to care a less if they themselves break the TC. It was that way 2000 years ago, and it is that way today, nothing has changed-sadly
 
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The7thColporteur

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... You either follow after the Holy Spirit or the written code/law. You cannot do both, and only the Holy Spirit can lead into truth. ...
Holy Spirit is given only to those who obey God:

Acts 5:32 KJB - And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.​

The Holy Spirit leads one into all [not part of] Truth:

John 16:13 KJB - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.​

What is Truth?:

Psalms 119:142 KJB - Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Psalms 119:151 KJB - Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.​

Marco70 says that he was alive once, but the law came and sin revived and he died:

"... I had felt alive once before the law came to me, for there was no condemnation then, but once it did come, sin(consciousness) sprang to life in me and I died/felt condemned. The commandments I believe would give me life/were ordained to life if I obeyed them, instead brought death/condemnation for I could not keep them. ..." - Marco70

Romans 7:9 KJB - For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
He then says he becomes a Christian, which we accept.

But, once we show him the 4th Commandment [the Law, one of the commandments; see James 2:10 KJB], what does he choose to do instead?

James 2:10 KJB - For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Therefore, what does Marco70 do with the 4th Commandment? Tell us.
 
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The7thColporteur

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The Ten Commandments are to be obeyed by the Christian, yes or no?

Even to ask such a question is a complete failure to understand the NC I am afraid. ...
Dodging. Carnal old man of sin is alive again and active:

Romans 8:7 KJB - Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Stop wrestling against God, and let his "ministers" apply the crucifixion.
 
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Marco70

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Many quote Jesus words:

If you love me obey my commandments

Do the people who quote this verse themselves even try and obey each and every literal command of Christ in the Gospels? I've never met anyone who has.

It is worth remembering that Christ referred to the religious who did not practice what they preached/demanded of others as: Sons of vipers, sons of their father the devil, liars, hypocrites and he said they did not know his Father. Jesus harshest words were reserved for such people. For there is no love for God, or your fellow man in demanding of them what you do not even try to attain to in your own life
 
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The7thColporteur

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Many quote Jesus words:

If you love me obey my commandments

...
Jesus quoted Himself at Mt. Sinai at the giving of the Ten Commandments:

Exodus 20:6 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14:15 KJB - If ye love me, keep my commandments.​

It is love to tell you about your transgression of one of God's commandments:

Leviticus 19:17 KJB - Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Leviticus 19:18 KJB - Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.​

It's based in LOVE for you brother!

It ain't because we hate you. It is because all trangression is sin, and sin leads unto death, and we don't want that to happen to you. It is a warning sent in Love, even the Love of God for you that burns within us. You cannot point to others and say what about them, past present or future. You have been shown. Light has come to you. You must choose.

John 3:19 KJB - And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Proverbs 6:23 KJB - For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:​

The Whole Law, all of the Ten Commandments, or none of them [there is no discount] ... choose.
 
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Marco70

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Beware of those who just reel off the letter. The letter kills, they cannot, nor do not practice what they preach/demand others, and in my view, they simply reel off huge swathes of the letter to cover up their inability to do any depth of exegesis concerning it.
As the pharisees of Jesus day proved. You can quote the letter of scripture inside and out, without understanding the message contained in it
 
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The7thColporteur

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...Do I concentrate on law then? No! I must look to Christ...
What Christ are you looking at? The Jesus of the scripture, the Living example of how to obey God's Law, obeys the Commandments of God and transgresses none, by/through the Holy Spirit.

Luke 4:16 KJB - And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luke 4:18 KJB - The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

John 15:10 KJB - If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 Peter 2:21 KJB - For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:​

Therefore, look, Behold this Lamb!:

John 1:29 KJB - The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.​

In beholding that Life, that Example, it will take away sin [which is transgression of the Law; 1 John 3:4 KJB]

There is no example, then, now or ever, of Christ Jesus transgressing the 4th Commandment, the Holy 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God.
 
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Marco70

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  1. How can sda accept anyone as a Christian who has no consciousness of sin if they fail to observe a set Saturday Sabbath:

  2. ‘This is the covenant I will make with them
    after that time, says the Lord.
    I will put my laws in their hearts,
    and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

    17 Then he adds:

    ‘Their sins and lawless acts
    I will remember no more
    Heb10:16&17

    The law God desires you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart. What is in your mind you in your mind must know, and the law in your heart MUST bring heartfelt conviction of sin if you wilfully transgress it, for: through the law we become conscioius of sin(rom 3:20). Therefore, if a person has no conviction of sin concerning not following a set Saturday Sabbath, only two things are possible. Either God did not write in their mind and place on their heart a law that states they must observe a set Saturday Sabbath, or they cannot be a Christian.
    People will never have a closer walk with God if they listen to people who do not understand the core foundation upon which the Christian faith stands.



May as well put this up here also. People who will demand of you what they do not demand of themselves, and then tell you they are speaking to you out of love to convince you of the truth, may be able to reel the letter off at will from their heads, but they will never understand the truth.
Trying to convince anyone you accept as a Christian they must have conviction they sin by failing to observe a set saturday Sabbath, simply shows your inability to understand the core foundation upon which the Christian faith stands
 
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The7thColporteur

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...
  1. ‘This is the covenant I will make with them
    after that time, says the Lord.
    I will put my laws in their hearts,
    and I will write them on their minds.’...
"My laws":

Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no. Exodus 16:4

Now therefore, O LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit upon the throne of Israel; yet so that thy children take heed to their way to walk in my law, as thou hast walked before me. 2 Chronicles 6:16

[[Maschil of Asaph.]] Give ear, O my people, [to] my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. Psalms 78:1

If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; Psalms 89:30

My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments: Proverbs 3:1

For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law. Proverbs 4:2

Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye. Proverbs 7:2

Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart [is] my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings. Isaiah 51:7

Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, [even] the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it. Jeremiah 6:19

And the LORD saith, Because they have forsaken my law which I set before them, and have not obeyed my voice, neither walked therein; Jeremiah 9:13

Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law; Jeremiah 16:11

And thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; If ye will not hearken to me, to walk in my law, which I have set before you, Jeremiah 26:4

But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:33

They are not humbled [even] unto this day, neither have they feared, nor walked in my law, nor in my statutes, that I set before you and before your fathers. Jeremiah 44:10

Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed [difference] between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Ezekiel 22:26

[Set] the trumpet to thy mouth. [He shall come] as an eagle against the house of the LORD, because they have transgressed my covenant, and trespassed against my law. Hosea 8:1​

I have written to him the great things of my law, [but] they were counted as a strange thing. Hosea 8:12

Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Genesis 26:5

And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? Exodus 16:28

And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; [and] they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths. Exekiel 44:24

For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hebrews 8:10

This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Hebrews 10:16​

...even as it is cited in the book of Hebrews:

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Hebrews 8:8

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. Hebrews 8:9

For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hebrews 8:10

And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. Hebrews 8:11​

For the other parts of Hebrews 8, see also Psalms 25:7; Isaiah 43:25; Hebrews 10:16-17.

This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Hebrews 10:16​

Who is the "them"? It is "the house of Israel" and "the house of Judah".

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Hebrews 10:17​

Who is the "their"? See above...

Those who disregard the 7th Day the Sabbath as one of God's "my laws" to be written upon the heart, don't claim to be of Israel [Hebrews 2:9-13; Isaiah 8:8-20 KJB], and they don't claim that Jesus Himself is Israel [Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; Romans 9:6-11; 1 Corinthians 15:44-46 KJB, and so how could a covenant [Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7; Acts 4:24, 14:15; Exodus 31:12-18; Revelation 14:6-7; Isaiah 66:23 KJB] ever be made with them?

Don't know what "law" they are talking about when they say Jesus died for their transgression of a "law". ... They have a 'new law' that Jesus never died for, shed no blood for, and have no High priest for, since their 'new law' is not in the Actual Ark in the true Temple in Heaven ...
 
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Marco70

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Our sda brethren believe(correctly) sin is the transgression of the law. They also believe(correctly) through the law we become conscious of sin. The law God desires you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart, under the core terms of the NC. (as ourt sda brethren accept)Therefore, according to what the sda say they believe, you MUST be conscious you sin when you transgress that law.
And yet, they spend much time trying to convince those they accept as Christians they must be conscious they sin by failing to observe a set Saturday Sabbath


Wisdom is always proved right by its inconsistencies
 
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Marco70

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We can easily prove the law God desires you to follow, that was written on tablets of stone is now in your heart. Paul writing to Gentiles:

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts
2Cor3:3
 
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