COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

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LoveGodsWord

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Prove my error, or you have proven yours.

I think you may be waiting a long time. I have asked him the same thing after sending walls of scripture that disagree with his teachings and all I get is the same responses he is sending you. o_O

I suggested that if he is not able to respond to the posts and scriptures that disagree with him then maybe he can pray about it at home.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they are still in BONDAGE to SIN and are SERVANTS of SIN and have not been BORN again to be FREE of the SINS they KNOW about.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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Bob S

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The Law is Holy, Just and Good and this includes the 4th Commandment, which is the only Commandment of the Ten [symbolizing all, the wholeness of God's Law] with the word Holy in it, see 2 Peter 2:21 KJB. Therefore to teach that it is irrelevant shows your heart.
The Law, Sinai covenant, WAS Israel's guide as how God wanted the Israelite nation to live under. It was never meant to be a salvational covenant. I the prelude to the giving of the Law God had this to say to Moses: 5 Now obey me completely. Keep my covenant. If you do, then out of all the nations you will be my special treasure. The whole earth is mine. 6 But you will be a kingdom of priests to serve me. You will be my holy nation.’ That is what you must tell the Israelites.”

Moses knew all about salvation. He is that one that wrote how Abraham was saved. There is nothing in there old covenant to indicate that the covenant was about salvation. Question: how could a ritual command given to Israel commanding Israel, and Israel only, to observe the weekly Sabbath because of their flight out of Egypt morph into a worldwide all nation obligation? Well, it didn't and those who thump that we must keep it or lose our eternal inheritance are plain lying to those they are teaching.
It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4} Ellen White
The new covenant is the covenant of salvation for all mankind. Israel’s Promised Land is defunct as is the covenant that governed the people. The new covenant does not demand that mankind observe ritual days given only to Israel. In fact the new covenant is partially about only two rituals, communion and marriage. There is nothing about observing days. Another fact is that in 2Cor 3:7-11 Paul wrote that the 10 commandments WERE the commandments of death and that they WERE done away.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is
done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
GAl 3:
3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:

No matter how you cut it trying to keep the Sabbath is works of the defunct, for Israel only, Law.

The covenant was broken by Israel. A broken covenant has no power. The Sinai covenant is history. The new covenant is an everlasting covenant not like the one it replaced. It is a better covenant with better promises. You can choose to live under the defunct ministry of death and die or live under the eternal covenant of life and live. Jesus died so that Israel would not die according to the ministry of death. In so doing He has offered all mankind the opportunity to receive Him and live under the new covenant. The choice is yours. Choose wisely.
 
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1stcenturylady

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If I may ask, since when is the Ten Commandments of God ever "shadow"? The scripture says:

Proverbs 6:23 KJB - For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Psalms 119:105 KJB - NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Isaiah 8:20 KJB - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.​

Will you tell me Colossians 2:16-17? See the context, and compare to Ephesians 2 and Hebrews 9-10 KJB. Those are carnal and shadowy things.

God's Ten Commandments are Light and Spiritual things:

Romans 7:14 KJB - For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.​

See for yourself:

Show me the word "sabbath", "law", "commandment/s", "the 7th day" in the passages of Romans 14 KJB.

Romans 14 KJB, deals with the days that "man esteemeth" among men, see Luke 16:15 KJB. God esteems His Holy day [Job 23:12; Psalms 119:126-128 KJB].

The "day" in Romans 14 is associated with eating and not eating, among "men", which are days set apart for men for fasting/feasting, etc. The Jews had constantly fought with one another over which days were better to do this or that [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]. Some Jews decide that any day was fine to do any of those things, while others had specific days picked out for those things [see also the historical source the "Didache"]. Paul stated it didn't matter, and each was fine, so long as either side did it unto the LORD, to the glory of God, not for personal gain/prestige/notice [as the Pharisees had done], but that what mattered was brotherly love within the body, preferring one another.

Connect Romans 14, to 1 Corinthians 8-10 KJB. There were issues with the Gentile believers purchasing food in the shambles [marketplaces] which may have been blessed or offered before idols, and some Jews, and possibly Gentiles believers which took offence at anyone partaking of those things. Paul stated that an Idol is nothing, but the persons for whom Christ Jesus died were of value, and therefore, regard the conscience of another, and cause no one to sin, even if what was eaten was immediately lawful to a person, but such freedom within God's law, not everything is always expedient, or best to do at all times. There were also Jewish beleivers in Christ who still under their vows, even Nazarite vows, and thus things of the vine in matters of eating and drinking would come into play as well. Just because Christ Jesus died on the Cross, doesn't negate their vow - they still had to carry out what they said they would do.

If you Read Romans 1-13, the Law, the Ten Comamndments of God are spoken of and cited throughout, as eternal, as the judge of sin [Romans 7:7 KJB; in fact how did you know you needed as Saviour? What Law was transgressed by yourself? Exodus 20:1-17 KJB], and Romans 15-16 continue and complete this picture. God's Ten Commandments are Eternal [Psalms 89:34 KJB], His Sabbath from Genesis to Revelation, even into the New Heavens and New Earth [Isaiah 66:22-23 KJB].

Colossians 2 KJB, parallels Ephesians 2 KJB, and Hebrews 9-10 KJB. The language is the same. The "ordinances" in Colossians 2 deals with "shadows", such as the daily "meat and drink" offerings of a worldly sanctuary and carnal ordinances, the seasonal "feast days", the monthly "new moons", and the year based "sabbaths", in the singular, every 7 and 50th years, as Paul is citing Psalms 98:1-3; and Ezekiel 45:17 KJB with other texts.

The Sabbath of the LORD thy God is always called "my [as in God's] sabbaths", and the others in Leviticus 23:4 onward are called "your [the peoples] sabbaths" [Leviticus 26:35 KJB] which are "beside [given in addition to] the sabbaths of the LORD" [Leviticus 23:38 KJB]. The Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment, are "light" [Proverbs 6:23, Isaiah 8:20, 51:4 KJB], never a "shadow", are "spiritual" [Romans 7:14 KJB], never "carnal" [Hebrews 9:10 KJB].

Colossians 2:14 - "ordinances"
Ephesians 2:15 - "law of commandments contained in ordinances"
Hebrews 9:1 - "ordinances of divine service"
Hebrews 9:10 - "carnal ordinances"

Colossians 2:16 - "in meat, or in drink" [offerings]
Hebrews 9:10 - "meats and drinks" [offerings]

Colossians 2:12 - "also ye are risen with him"
Ephesians 2:6 - "raised us up together"

Colossians 2:16 - "a shadow of things to come"
Ephesians 2:7 - "in the ages to come"
Hebrews 9:11 - "of good things to come"
Hebrews 10:1 - "the law having a shadow of good things to come", "those sacrifices", "offered year by year"

[ps. none of the Ten Commandments deal with carnal sacrifices]
etc.

It's easy to turn a willingly blind eye to evidence when it doesn't suit our own sins and rebellion to God, even to Jesus commandment to repent [John 14:15; Exodus 20:6 KJB].​

Are you SDA?
 
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1stcenturylady

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Where does it say in God's WORD that Jesus is a Sabbath? God's WORD only says the Sabbath is the Seventh day of the week and Jesus is the creator of it and it is the "Lords Day" and the 4th Commandment in the 10 Commandments. (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:8).

There is NO scripture anywhere in God's WORD that says Jesus is a Sabbath. This is an invention of those who seek to follow the teachings and traditions of men that changed the day in order to break the commandments of God (Matthew 15:3-9)

................

You know 1stcenturylady, all of the scripture shared here with you and to everyone for that matter is only ever written in LOVE... :wave:

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they are still in BONDAGE to SIN and are SERVANTS of SIN and have not been BORN again to be FREE of the SINS they KNOW about.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Jesus is concealed in the Old Testament, and revealed in the New Testament. Leviticus 23 is one place Jesus is concealed. Everything in it looks forward to Jesus, thus are His shadows.
 
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Marco70

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You missed it, it was here:

Matthew 5:19-20 please.
You missed it, it was here:

Matthew 5:19-20 please.
When you answer the question, we can continue, not until.

Is honesty and truth important to you?

Do you strive to obey each and every literal command of Christ in the Gospels?

You either do or you don't, so, the answer is either yes or no
 
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Marco70

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You are free to BELIEVE God's WORD of not BELIEVE God's WORD. I do not judge you. Did you have any scripture to share Marco? So far you have mainly provided your word over God's WORD that disagrees with you.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they are still in BONDAGE to SIN and are SERVANTS of SIN and have not been BORN again to be FREE of the SINS they KNOW about.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
In your view, did the Corinthian church, which Paul called the church of God commit sin?
 
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Marco70

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God's WORD disagrees with you. Do you have any scripture to share for your teaching? It seems not.

.
Christ is the end of the law, unto righteousness for everyone who believeth
Rom 10:4

In this respect the believer is not under law
 
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listed

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Listed, I love SDAs. They cover all the bases. 10C and believe in the name of Jesus and love their neighbor.
I'm sorry if you don't think I love the SDA. The SDA don't cover all the bases if any at all. Personally I think the first 4 commandments cover all the bases if that is what you mean when it comes to commandments I don;t hate the ten commandments. My relationship is with God through Jesus, not the law.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The Law, Sinai covenant, WAS Israel's guide as how God wanted the Israelite nation to live under. It was never meant to be a salvational covenant.

Well that has no truth in it Bob. That is like saying everyone before the NEW COVENANT is lost and has no salvation. God's people in the OLD COVENANT and before were saved in the same way that we are in the NEW COVENANT and that is by FAITH. (HEBREWS 11:4-40)

In the OLD COVEANT they looked forward to the promised Messaiah and God's plan of salvation. In the NEW COVENANT we look back to the promised Messaiah (Jesus) and God's plan of salivation.

All HEBREWS Chapter 11 shows God's WORD disagrees with you here Bob.

Question: how could a ritual command given to Israel commanding Israel, and Israel only, to observe the weekly Sabbath because of their flight out of Egypt morph into a worldwide all nation obligation? Well, it didn't and those who thump that we must keep it or lose our eternal inheritance are plain lying to those they are teaching.

Good question Bob, this is what the OP is about that you have not read. Your question is answered in the OP. I suggest you read it. There are two parts to the OLD COVENANT which incluide 1. God's LAW (10 Commandments) and 2. The MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT. God's LAW is God's LAW it does not have ritual commands. It is ONLY the MOSIAC BOOK of the COVENANT that has the ritual laws for remission of SIN. These are the SHADOW laws you mix up with GOD'S ETERNAL LAWS that give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL (SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS) in both the OLD AND NEW COVENANTS and is the standard of the JUDGEMENT to come.

5 X PART SCRIPTURE SUPPORT THAT DISAGREES WITH YOU LINKED HERE CLICK ME.

Seems God's WORD disagrees with you again Bob.


Another fact is that in 2Cor 3:7-11 Paul wrote that the 10 commandments WERE the commandments of death and that they WERE done away. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:.....

LETS LOOK AT 2COR 3?

v6, Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament (Covenant); not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit giveth life.
v7
, But if the ministration of death, written and graven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away.
v8, How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
v9, For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
v10, For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
v11, For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
v12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
v13, And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
v14, But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
v15, But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16, Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17, Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Lets’ put it all together….

v6-7 What is the ministration of death graven in stone? It is God’s Law (10 commandments; Exodus 20:1-17; 31:18; 32:16). Why were they called the ministration of death? Because God’s Law (10 commandments) give the knowledge of sin and righteousness but makes nothing perfect (James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 7:7; Hebrews 7:19 ).

God’s Law only shows what sin is and if broken, the penalty for sin is death (Romans 6:23). v8-10 It was to teach us that we are all sinners in need of a saviour and that all the world may become guilty before God (Romans 3:10; 19; Isaiah 64:6).

It leads us to Christ that we might be justified by faith (Galatians 3:24; Romans 3:28). v10-17 The glory of the one passes to the glory of the other (Law to Christ). They both work together to bring the sinner to salvation. It is the glory of the one (God’s Law) that points to the Glory of the other because God’s Law leads the sinner to the Saviour (Galatian 3:24-25).

The glory has been done away not God’s Law. God’s Law is perfect and is forever but makes nothing perfect it is the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness (Ecclesiastes 3:14) but makes nothing perfect. Faith that works by love through walking in the Spirit is the new ministration when someone is born again. This is the new covenant of the one written on stone (Old Covenant) to the promise of God's Law being written in the heart by LOVE (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:9-12).

This is the difference between the true Gospel and the counterfeit. The counterfeit Gospel is one that tries to separate God’s Law from the cross but without God’s Law no one has the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness (James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 7:7; Hebrews 7:19). The first lie told in the garden of Eden by the farther of lies to Eve was that you can break God's Commandments and you will not surely die.

These scriptures do not support your teaching Bob that God's LAW is done away.

GAl 3:3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, ......

Lovely scriptures Bob, and your point is?
We are ONLY saved by GRACE through FAITH and NOT of ourselves it is a GIFT of GOD and NOT of WORKS lest any man should boast.

If your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE then you are still in your SINS because you have rejected God's he GIFT of God's dear son (James 2:18; 20; 26; James 2:8-12). If your tree has no FRUIT then it will be cast down and thrown into the fire (Matt 7:12-23; Hebrews 10:26-27). Many do not know why God has given us GRACE and FAITH...

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

ROMANS 1:5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

ROMANS 6:1-2, [1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. [2], How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

DOES FAITH ABOLISH GOD'S LAW?

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

Seems like God's WORD disagrees with you Bob.


No matter how you cut it trying to keep the Sabbath is works of the defunct, for Israel only, Law. The covenant was broken by Israel. A broken covenant has no power. The Sinai covenant is history. The new covenant is an everlasting covenant not like the one it replaced. It is a better covenant with better promises. You can choose to live under the defunct ministry of death and die or live under the eternal covenant of life and live. Jesus died so that Israel would not die according to the ministry of death. In so doing He has offered all mankind the opportunity to receive Him and live under the new covenant. The choice is yours. Choose wisely.

Not really Bob, If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT. Gentiles are now grafted in (Romans 11:16:27) as it is written...

WHO ARE GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?


THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (Galatians 3:28).

FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (Romans 9:6).

FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28-29)

Colossians 3:11,
WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK
circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

Hebrews 8:10-12,

BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Gentiles are now grafted into God's ISRAEL (Romans 11:13-24)

God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are ALL those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. God's Sabbath is an EVERLASTING and PERPETUAL Covenant that will be continued in the NEW EARTH (Isaiah 66:22-23)

Yep looks like the gentiles are now grafted into God's ISRAEL.

If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL then you are NOT a part of the NEW COVENANT.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN .

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)[/quote]
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Is the discussion about the law or sin? I attempted to show a very good reason the law is a failure when it comes to righteous behavior.

Hello listed, nice to see you. Long time no chat :wave:

Why do you think that the purpose of God's LAW is for righteous behaviour or who is saying that it is for righteouss behaviour?
 
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Marco70

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When you ask istcenturylady or LGW whether they believe the Corinthian church, which Paul called the church of God committed sin, you get no response. Why?
Because they can only see the partial letter of scripture, not the true message contained in the letter. Very sad in truth
 
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Ridiculous? No, he was right.

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

You are not only misjudging LGW, but me too, and unlovingly which is a lack of fruit, love.
No because 2 different things are being focused on and discussed. Our relationship with God isn't through the body being regulated to by a set of rules. Paul explains this in Romans very well over the course of several chapters. It isn't our body that is redeemed (born again).
 
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Yes, John is. Is 1 John 1:6 a Christian? 1 John 1:8 is the same as Paul saying "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Who do they need? Jesus
Maybe Peter should have included John when he said hard to understand.
 
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