Coincidence of Womans Sufferage and Inflation

[LinkH]

Any political system, no matter how rich it makes a country, if the only way to keep that system going is to deny basic human rights to a proportion of the population, in this case, over half the population, then that political system needs to die.

For the sake of argument, your proposition shall be accepted, that democracy is dying because of women's suffrage. Well so what. Who cares? It's obviously some third rate system and we need to think of something better, something that can exist and be successful without needing to deny any group their human rights.

It's success was dependent upon suffering. Women are people too and women suffer when they are denied their basic human rights.

From scripture, I can't see where the right to vote, regardless of gender, is some kind of God-given inalienable right. If a nation has a benevolent and just monarch, then the subjects do not have to live under oppression or suffering. Eventually, we will all be under a monarchy, with Christ as King. Every knee show bow and every tongue shall confess.

Be that as it may, I believe God can work with a variety of political systems. He did in the Bible. I see no reason to think that a system where men vote, representing the interests of their families, is inherently unjust. I don't think it is wrong to have every adult vote either. The problem with democracy is that when you have a wicked or foolish populace, wicked and foolish things will be voted into law, and in a Republic, wicked and foolish leaders will be elected. Kings can be wicked and foolish as well. We await our wise King.

Modern Western European, North American, and Australian political philosophy emphasizes the important of treating all people equally, or at least all adults, and giving all equal political power. From reading the Bible, I don't see any reason to think that this objective ranks highly, if at all, on God's list of priorities.

 

[I Art Laughing]

Yes, a kingdom to rest in. I don't think this will be something to bristle against when you are able to submit yourself to Christ's just authority, there won't be any suffering and we won't have to worry, politic, or vote to make this happen.

 

[SearchingStudent]

Because you are the arbiter of historic truth? What social policies have set the course of our democracy? What social policy set up the housing collapse? Separating cause and effect does not impress. FDR, Truman, LBJ, and Carter? Certainly defense spending has been a perennial drag (so the Iron Triangle shares much of the burden) but it's going to be the social safety net that finishes us off, especially as the wars abroad wrap up. "Universal" health care? QE3 anyone?

Also, any thoughts on what drives consumer debt and basically always has? Domesticity. Let me turn on my T.V. and see which ad's are messaged to which gender....

Mysogynist much? I find your assumption that because I am a woman I am programmed to run out and spend my family into massive amounts of debt to buy the latest and greatest whatever quite insulting to me personally and to women in general. Here's the FACTS. I am college educated, capable of making a good living, have absolutely no debt, own 2 8 year old vehicles and one 14 year old vehicle, refuse to pay full price for anything (in cash), have a very healthy savings account and have lived for my entire 48 years without owning a designer bag, shoes, or clothes. The renovations we have done to our home were paid for IN CASH (close to 60K). I'm currently working part time to finish a master's degree (that was paid for in cash).

So...you tell me where I'm "contributing to inflation". You tell me where my mind is so soft that I have to run out and buy the latest idiocy advertised on TV.

Oh, and 90% of our food is made from scratch. Most of my clothes are made by me. I still have sweaters and jackets that I wore 30+ years ago in high school. The last thing I spent money on was a set of tires for my SUV. Got them on sale with a rebate. Can't remember the last time I was in the mall. Can remember the last time I was in the fabric shop. Gotta finish that skirt some time this week before finals hit.

I know many, many women like me. Evidently you need to meet some of us.

 

[LinkH]

On a personal level, from my experience, I don't see any reason to think that women are more debt-prone than women. I haven't read any academic research on the subject, so I don't know.

I've heard the theory put forth that women are more prone to vote for candidates who want to increase the budget for certain social programs. I haven't read any academic research on that idea, either.

There has been a trend toward larger and larger government in the US started in the 1900's. Maybe it has more to do with the 16th amendment, ratified in 1916, which allowed a federal income tax, than with women's suffrage.

I've heard it argued that women voting brought in some foolish legislation in the US, an amendment to the constitution actually-- prohibition--while men were away at war. But my impression is that what we might now call 'right wing conservative' women, not liberal feminists were very much behind that movement.

 

[I Art Laughing]

Mysogynist much? I find your assumption that because I am a woman I am programmed to run out and spend my family into massive amounts of debt to buy the latest and greatest whatever quite insulting to me personally and to women in general. Here's the FACTS. I am college educated, capable of making a good living, have absolutely no debt, own 2 8 year old vehicles and one 14 year old vehicle, refuse to pay full price for anything (in cash), have a very healthy savings account and have lived for my entire 48 years without owning a designer bag, shoes, or clothes. The renovations we have done to our home were paid for IN CASH (close to 60K). I'm currently working part time to finish a master's degree (that was paid for in cash).

So...you tell me where I'm "contributing to inflation". You tell me where my mind is so soft that I have to run out and buy the latest idiocy advertised on TV.

Oh, and 90% of our food is made from scratch. Most of my clothes are made by me. I still have sweaters and jackets that I wore 30+ years ago in high school. The last thing I spent money on was a set of tires for my SUV. Got them on sale with a rebate. Can't remember the last time I was in the mall. Can remember the last time I was in the fabric shop. Gotta finish that skirt some time this week before finals hit.

I know many, many women like me. Evidently you need to meet some of us.

I base my opinion on seeing 20 years of advertisement, programming and marketing. Did I miss something? Are the marketers missing something?

Why not check out "Target Women" from Current TV by Sarah Haskins? (It can be found on Youtube and she can be crude).

I suppose that advertisers aren't targeting either you or me, does that mean I should ignore the trend so I can appear to be politically correct? Can I get a lobotomy with that?

 

[dallasapple]

I wouldn't be so generous. I would point to any expansion of the franchise to an expansion of potential dole recipients coinciding with the dilution of tax payers leading to fiscal frivolity. The larger the expansion the greater the frivolity. This is very well laid out in de Tocqueville's "Democracy in America", the thought is not original to me, he predicted all of this in 1835. So these calls of "bogus" are falling on deaf ears as far as a general theory.

I dont think the solution is to opress an entire GENDER or race to prevent so called "frivolous" spendign by the government..Lets put it ths way..Im not givign up MY RIGHTS in order for the government to get their act in shape period..

LOGIC..any system that needs to OPRRES and restrict an entire gender ..50% of the population in order to have a "succesful" economy isnt a SUCCESS...... thats a DISMAL FAILURE..at least not when IM IN THE 1/2 of the people opressed...so lets GO bankrupt as far as Im concerned..everyone can die..not just me..Im not sacrificing MY life and MY freedoms and shouldnt be expected too...in order for YOU to have YOUR freedoms..Im NO LESS than you are FACT..so we can go down together as far as Im concerned..Having said that it will NOT happen..you are an alarmist ...its not happening..

Dallas

 

[dallasapple]

On a personal level, from my experience, I don't see any reason to think that women are more debt-prone than women. I haven't read any academic research on the subject, so I don't know.

I've heard the theory put forth that women are more prone to vote for candidates who want to increase the budget for certain social programs. I haven't read any academic research on that idea, either.

There has been a trend toward larger and larger government in the US started in the 1900's. Maybe it has more to do with the 16th amendment, ratified in 1916, which allowed a federal income tax, than with women's suffrage.

I've heard it argued that women voting brought in some foolish legislation in the US, an amendment to the constitution actually-- prohibition--while men were away at war. But my impression is that what we might now call 'right wing conservative' women, not liberal feminists were very much behind that movement.

Well Im not foolish enough to outlaw alcohol..In fact Im for making pot legal..

Dallas

 

[I Art Laughing]

you are an alarmist ...its not happening..

Dallas

If I'm right does that make you a denialist? Any thoughts on the decrepitude and senescence of past civilizations? What makes people think that something about this civilization will keep it from following suit besides naked hubris?

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace. What profit hath he that worketh in that wherein he laboureth? I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it.
(Ecc 3:1-10)

Recommended reading on the subject Solomon is discussing here:

The Fourth Turning by William Strauss and Neil Howe

http://www.amazon.com/The-Fourth-Tu...0464/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336021379&sr=8-1

 

[SearchingStudent]

I base my opinion on seeing 20 years of advertisement, programming and marketing. Did I miss something? Are the marketers missing something?

Why not check out "Target Women" from Current TV by Sarah Haskins? (It can be found on Youtube and she can be crude).

I suppose that advertisers aren't targeting either you or me, does that mean I should ignore the trend so I can appear to be politically correct? Can I get a lobotomy with that?

That's assuming I would watch something like that. Assuming that I am easily led around by some idiot who is trying to manipulate me. Sorry buddy, i am not a weak minded woman who feels the need to buy all that rubbish. Oh wait...then I must not be a "real" woman because I have both intelligence AND self-control...

Advertisers do what they do, marketing to BOTH genders (have you seen the commercials for trucks, beer, certain foods and clothing?). It's not just women they're marketing to. Honestly, do you really think I'm dumb enough to swallow your rhetoric whole because you have a Y chromosome and a bible? Umm...nope...not here!

 

[I Art Laughing]

That's assuming I would watch something like that. Assuming that I am easily led around by some idiot who is trying to manipulate me. Sorry buddy, i am not a weak minded woman who feels the need to buy all that rubbish. Oh wait...then I must not be a "real" woman because I have both intelligence AND self-control...

Advertisers do what they do, marketing to BOTH genders (have you seen the commercials for trucks, beer, certain foods and clothing?). It's not just women they're marketing to. Honestly, do you really think I'm dumb enough to swallow your rhetoric whole because you have a Y chromosome and a bible? Umm...nope...not here!

I never suggested you were weak minded, that is a pretty limp attempt at a deflection.

Marketing to Women :: Advertising to Female Baby Boomers and Women Over 50

The women of the boomer generation (those born between 1946 and 1964) wield a huge amount of buying power! Baby boomer women, the authors of Boom: Marketing to the Ultimate Power Consumer, the Baby Boomer Woman note, influence as much as 80% of the trillions of dollars that baby boomers spend on consumer products and services. And those trillions can add up: according to USA Today, consumers age 50 and older spent $2.9 trillion in 2009, even during the throes of the recession—up 45% in the past ten years.

So are you going to stand by your argument that all things are ultimately equal or should I never believe my lying eyes because the marketing doesn't impress YOU in particular. That is pretty subjective.

She-conomy » MARKETING TO WOMEN QUICK FACTS

• Senior women age 50 and older control net worth of $19 trillion and own more than three-fourths of the nation’s financial wealth. – MassMutual Financial Group–2007


• Over the next decade, women will control two thirds of consumer wealth in the United States and be the beneficiaries of the largest transference of wealth in our country’s history. Estimates range from $12 to $40 trillion. Many Boomer women will experience a double inheritance windfall, from both parents and husband. The Boomer woman is a consumer that luxury brands want to resonate with. – Claire Behar, Senior Partner and Director, New Business Development, Fleishman-Hillard New York


I can think of at least a few more ways of wealth transference to women in our society besides the ones Claire Behar came up with: welfare programs, divorce, Medicare payments deeper into old age, educational and business subsidies, and affirmative action.

 

[SearchingStudent]

So, women have a lot of money and buying power. How does that feed into inflation? This still sounds like a whole lot of sour grapes to me.

Yes, most of us make most of the major buying decisions for our families. Some of us choose to be very frugal. Some of us don't.

You obviously have missed the advertising aimed at men. There's a lot of it, especially on certain networks that would be watched more by men than women. You're telling me that NO advertising has an effect on men, at all?


Once again, your argument is spurious at best. There is no solid correlation between your assertions. In order to have the world as you wish, you would disenfranchise 50% of the population, ban all advertising, have men control all the wealth and slash wages and prices to 1900 levels, correct? Oh and disband the Federal Reserve (in actuality not a really bad idea) too.

I cannot believe that this sort of thinking is still around in the 21st century.

 

[I Art Laughing]

So, women have a lot of money and buying power. How does that feed into inflation? This still sounds like a whole lot of sour grapes to me.

Yes, most of us make most of the major buying decisions for our families. Some of us choose to be very frugal. Some of us don't.

You obviously have missed the advertising aimed at men. There's a lot of it, especially on certain networks that would be watched more by men than women. You're telling me that NO advertising has an effect on men, at all?


Once again, your argument is spurious at best. There is no solid correlation between your assertions. In order to have the world as you wish, you would disenfranchise 50% of the population, ban all advertising, have men control all the wealth and slash wages and prices to 1900 levels, correct? Oh and disband the Federal Reserve (in actuality not a really bad idea) too.

I cannot believe that this sort of thinking is still around in the 21st century.

You're funny. So I go from being an oppressive misogynist keeping the poor woman down to sour grape eating envy in three easy posts?

Who is going to get most of the advertising dollars? The demographic with 75% of the money or the demographic with 25%? Don't strain anything.

So who is spending the money? Who is predominantly being tempted to spend money?

Another statistic from the "She-conomy" site:

Women account for 85% of all consumer purchases including everything from autos to health care:
91% of New Homes
66% PCs
92% Vacations
80% Healthcare
65% New Cars
89% Bank Accounts
93% Food
93 % OTC PharmaceuticalsAmerican women spend about $5 trillion annually…
Over half the U.S. GDP

So who is going to be responsible for this?

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

$870 Billion in student loan debt (considering women outnumber men at a rate of around 1.6 to 1)?

$13.4 Trillion in mortgage debt?

To the tune of $51,000 dollars of personal debt per US citizen. I suppose we should ignore this woman's 85% of purchases figure (she's probably a misogynist too.)

Maybe we should just pretend that we can wrack up debt forever and that hiding our head in the sand is an actual strategy. Maybe this is the only option since it seems this society is completely averse to looking at the problem as it truly exists.

I think disenfranchising women is a complete non-starter (obviously) but I would hope it isn't too much to ask for fiscal responsibility and applying the brakes to the dole that incentivizes decadence and dependence.

 

[I Art Laughing]

And for anyone insisting that I'm an alarmist please consider the red number at the lower left titled "Liability Per Taxpayer" and note the $1,045,616 per taxpayer amount. QE-infinity anyone? That is money that someone living now is expecting to be paid within their lifetime! If we don't think that is going to cause a great deal of suffering then we are hubris filled denialists.

 

[JaneFW]

Does it really matter? I mean, women have their freedom and nobody can remove it - much as they would love to, all the while saying that they have no intention of doing so - so it's a moot point.

Viva la freedom.

 

[tannicv2]

Does it really matter? I mean, women have their freedom and nobody can remove it - much as they would love to, all the while saying that they have no intention of doing so - so it's a moot point.

Viva la freedom.

You can have your freedom... Always had it in my book.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

And who ran up the deficit? Who was in office when the housing market tanked?

This one's easy! B.O. for the first one, and GWB who had to concede to a Democratic controlled Congress for the second (thanks Barney Frank!).

Here's a little history lesson:

Barney Frank in 2005: What Housing Bubble? - YouTube

 

[ImaginaryDay]

I base my opinion on seeing 20 years of advertisement, programming and marketing. Did I miss something? Are the marketers missing something?

Why not check out "Target Women" from Current TV by Sarah Haskins? (It can be found on Youtube and she can be crude).

I suppose that advertisers aren't targeting either you or me, does that mean I should ignore the trend so I can appear to be politically correct? Can I get a lobotomy with that?

You base your opinion on "advertisement, programming, and marketing"????? What is THAT????!
I would suggest that you turn off the T.V. and Wikipedia for your information and get some actual experience before you speak. It helps.

 

[I Art Laughing]

I find it interesting that anything less than a full throated shout for the support of feminism is seen as misogynist, any mention of culpability or correlation must be ignored. Yeah, I don't see this problem being fixed when people who should have a clear view of what is going on bascically hop between "not there, not there" and:

The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars. Therefore the LORD shall set up the adversaries of Rezin against him, and join his enemies together; The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still. For the people turneth not unto him that smiteth them, neither do they seek the LORD of hosts. Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.
(Isa 9:10-14)

The harbinger - Isaiah 9:10 The Harbinger September 11 2001 Endtime prophecy

and:

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(2Pe 3:3-10)

The point of which is clearly to ignore any consequences of disobedience, to pretend that God isn't a Holy and just God. Ignoring the highlighted text and denying the following scriptures:

He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
(Mat 16:2-3)


Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
(Mat 24:32-33)

As if judgement could never come, or that predicting disobedience will lead to judgement is alarmist. The U.S. is in big trouble and it's trying to buy its way out, but at least we have "equality".

"Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom." Alexis de Tocqueville

​

 

[LinkH]

How is this thread about marriage?

 

[I Art Laughing]

You base your opinion on "advertisement, programming, and marketing"????? What is THAT????!
I would suggest that you turn off the T.V. and Wikipedia for your information and get some actual experience before you speak. It helps.

I would suggest you read the links I posted to back up my position and quit casting barbs at the depths of my sources and intellect.

She-conomy » MARKETING TO WOMEN QUICK FACTS

Marketing to Women :: Advertising to Female Baby Boomers and Women Over 50

Marketing to Women :: Aio Design's Recommended Marketing to Women Books

Your hyperbole is more telling than my opinion.