Co-dependency?

[ke1985]

I saw this and I wanted to ask: What is the difference between an unhealthy co-dependence and the unity of marriage?

"They come to know that the reason things are bad is because of them: Co-Dependent Characteristics

a. My good feelings about who I am stem from being liked by you.

b. My good feelings about who I am stem from receiving approval by you.

c. Your struggle affects my serenity. My mental attention focuses on solving your problems or relieving your pain.

d. My mental attention is focused on pleasing and protecting you.

e. My mental attention is focused on manipulating you (to do it my way)

f. My self-esteem is bolstered by solving your problems and relieving your pain.

g. My own hobbies and interests are put aside. My time is spent sharing your interests and hobbies.

h. Our clothing and personal appearance are dictated by my desires as I feel you are a reflection of me.

i. Your behaviour is dictated by my desires as I feel you are a reflection of me.

j. I am not aware of how I feel. I am aware of how you feel.

k. I am not aware of what I want. I ask what you want. I am not aware - I assume.

l. The dreams I have for the future are linked to you.

m. My fear of rejection determines what I say or do.

n. I use giving as a way of feeling safe in our relationship.

o. My social circle diminishes as I involve myself with you.

p. I put my values aside in order to connect with you.

q. I value your opinion and way of doing things more than my own.

r. The quality of my life is in relation to the quality of yours. "

 

[FaithPrevails]

What you shared above is unhealthy codependency. I have posted what I believe to be a healthy approach to unity below each one.

I saw this and I wanted to ask: What is the difference between an unhealthy co-dependence and the unity of marriage?

"They come to know that the reason things are bad is because of them: Co-Dependent Characteristics

a. My good feelings about who I am stem from being liked by you.
My good feelings come from liking myself.

b. My good feelings about who I am stem from receiving approval by you.
I do not need your approval in order to feel good about myself, but I do like affirmation.

c. Your struggle affects my serenity. My mental attention focuses on solving your problems or relieving your pain.
I am part of your support system, but you do not rely on me to "fix" you.

d. My mental attention is focused on pleasing and protecting you.
I do not feel like I have to walk on pins and needles around you. I want you to feel safe, but you don't rely on me to feel safe 100% of the time.

e. My mental attention is focused on manipulating you (to do it my way)
We have open and honest communication about what we both want and we find an approach that is satisfying for both of us.

f. My self-esteem is bolstered by solving your problems and relieving your pain.
I don't have to focus on "fixing" you in order to feel good about myself.

g. My own hobbies and interests are put aside. My time is spent sharing your interests and hobbies.
We both enjoy our own hobbies and interests, as well as mutual ones.

h. Our clothing and personal appearance are dictated by my desires as I feel you are a reflection of me.
I dress for myself and what makes me feel good.

i. Your behaviour is dictated by my desires as I feel you are a reflection of me.
I don't manipulate you or make you feel guilty for your behavior. Any concerns I have are genuine and are out of honest interest in your personal growth.

j. I am not aware of how I feel. I am aware of how you feel.
I am aware of my feelings and communicate them effectively.

k. I am not aware of what I want. I ask what you want. I am not aware - I assume.
I know what I want. If I don't know what you want, I ask. I expect an honest answer.

l. The dreams I have for the future are linked to you.
I have dreams for the future and I want you to be a part of them.

m. My fear of rejection determines what I say or do.
I am not afraid to say/do something. Rejection is not a healthy response to displeasure with what I say/do.

n. I use giving as a way of feeling safe in our relationship.
I give to make you feel appreciated and like you are a priority.

o. My social circle diminishes as I involve myself with you.
My social circle may change when I involve myself with you, but I should never feel isolated.

p. I put my values aside in order to connect with you.
My values are important and you respect/agree with them.

q. I value your opinion and way of doing things more than my own.
I value your opinion and ask for your feedback for consideration when making a decision.

r. The quality of my life is in relation to the quality of yours. "
The quality of our lives is enhanced by our relationship with one another.

 

[dallasapple]

All I can say is ..anyone who feels like that list about their spouse and thinks its 'healthy unity of marriage" is lost..

I guess I dont understand how someone can read that list and says 'how is that different than the unity of marraige" unless they have lost thier idenitity in their spouse.

Dallas

 

[FaithPrevails]

Consider yourself blessed then. There are countless women - and men, for that matter, who do struggle with co-dependency.

 

[hijklmnop]

Yeah, I once got totally lost somewhere in that list. Thankfully I've gotten a lot of help for my codependency and now see the glaring difference between codependency and healthy unity. In codependency, one feels they need the other's happiness/health/approval in order to feel happy, at peace and have a sense of self-worth. You lose yourself because you're so desperate to get what you think you need from someone else that all your attention and priorities are fixated on fixing/improving that person/relationship. In healthy unity, each person's individuality is accepted and celebrated...it is a partnership of two equals...neither is more or less important than the other. Each can be a whole, happy and healthy person no matter where the other is at. Each is responsible for their own journey.Each finds their identity in Christ, not in another person. You love each other but don't NEED each other in the sense that you are lost without the other's love, approval and well-being.

 

[FaithPrevails]

Yeah, I once got totally lost somewhere in that list. Thankfully I've gotten a lot of help for my codependency and now see the glaring difference between codependency and healthy unity. In codependency, one feels they need the other's happiness/health/approval in order to feel happy, at peace and have a sense of self-worth. You lose yourself because you're so desperate to get what you think you need from someone else that all your attention and priorities are fixated on fixing/improving that person/relationship. In healthy unity, each person's individuality is accepted and celebrated...it is a partnership of two equals...neither is more or less important than the other. Each can be a whole, happy and healthy person no matter where the other is at. Each is responsible for their own journey.Each finds their identity in Christ, not in another person. You love each other but don't NEED each other in the sense that you are lost without the other's love, approval and well-being.

Exactly. Well said.

In my previous marriage, I was actually in a position of constantly being manipulated into a co-dependent role and constantly fighting back to try and keep a healthy balance. The more I resisted being made co-dependent, the more aggressive the attempts to manipulate me became.

Most people who are co-dependent are so entrenched in their behaviors that it takes nothing short than an act of God to reverse things. Even then, they still have the ability to reject healing and finding a healthier approach to the relationship.

 

[JanniGirl]

Yeah, I once got totally lost somewhere in that list. Thankfully I've gotten a lot of help for my codependency and now see the glaring difference between codependency and healthy unity. In codependency, one feels they need the other's happiness/health/approval in order to feel happy, at peace and have a sense of self-worth. You lose yourself because you're so desperate to get what you think you need from someone else that all your attention and priorities are fixated on fixing/improving that person/relationship. In healthy unity, each person's individuality is accepted and celebrated...it is a partnership of two equals...neither is more or less important than the other. Each can be a whole, happy and healthy person no matter where the other is at. Each is responsible for their own journey.Each finds their identity in Christ, not in another person. You love each other but don't NEED each other in the sense that you are lost without the other's love, approval and well-being.

I tend to take exception to the bolded, above. I'm not sur how "two become one" lends itself to be being whole, happy, and healthy no matter where the other is at .... If your spouse is seriously ill or cheating or loses a job -- You're honestly whole, happy, and healthy despite these things?

 

[FaithPrevails]

My only point was that you are blessed that you are able to see the difference so clearly, b/c so many people don't.[911 edit] Next time, just ask me for clarity if you think I'm saying something other than what I'm really saying, [911 edit].

 

[FaithPrevails]

LOL whatever.

 

[JRSut1000]

[911 edit]

Co-dependency can be unhealthy, but on the flip side total independence isn't exactly what we're called to in marriage either. Like someone said, there has to be a balance.

I might get a lot of heat for this, but I consider myself a co-dependent with my husband. He works and provides for his family so that I don't have to. So financially I am dependent on my husband and I am completely happy with this. He is the leader in our home but he leads with a lot of what I've said in mind. We're partners, but I've chosen him to be the 'executive'.

I think co-dependency can get really bad when emotional neediness is involved. This can happen on either the part of man or woman, but usually the woman.

I think the difference is my own marriage is that I used to feel slighted if I didn't get enough attention or my man didn't 'want me' that night or didn't cuddle enough or call or talk long enough while away on business. While I'm very very happy with my spouse, happiness becomes a problem when that happiness is dependent on how my husband treated me that day. When my mood goes up and down based on how much attention or praise I receive from my spouse, then *I* have a problem - a major codependency problem.

 

[hijklmnop]

911 edit

Co-dependency can be unhealthy, but on the flip side total independence isn't exactly what we're called to in marriage either. Like someone said, there has to be a balance.

I might get a lot of heat for this, but I consider myself a co-dependent with my husband. He works and provides for his family so that I don't have to. So financially I am dependent on my husband and I am completely happy with this. He is the leader in our home but he leads with a lot of what I've said in mind. We're partners, but I've chosen him to be the 'executive'.

I think co-dependency can get really bad when emotional neediness is involved. This can happen on either the part of man or woman, but usually the woman.

I think the difference is my own marriage is that I used to feel slighted if I didn't get enough attention or my man didn't 'want me' that night or didn't cuddle enough or call or talk long enough while away on business. While I'm very very happy with my spouse, happiness becomes a problem when that happiness is dependent on how my husband treated me that day. When my mood goes up and down based on how much attention or praise I receive from my spouse, then *I* have a problem - a major codependency problem.

Based on how you've described your relationship, I wouldn't say you're codependent...I'd say you're interdependent. You guys depend on and lean on each other to a certain, healthy degree....you CARE for each other...but because you are not emotionally needy towards him I wouldn't say you are codependent. Btw IME it happens just as much with men as with women...sometimes it manifests in different ways. It can be emotional neediness, it can also be controlling and manipulative behaviour, constantly trying to "fix" someone, etc. Just basically being overly involved in someone's "stuff" because you need them to be okay in order to be okay yourself. I don't think you fit that profile.

 

[hijklmnop]

I tend to take exception to the bolded, above. I'm not sur how "two become one" lends itself to be being whole, happy, and healthy no matter where the other is at .... If your spouse is seriously ill or cheating or loses a job -- You're honestly whole, happy, and healthy despite these things?

There comes a point where you can rejoice while your partner is rejoicing and weep while they are weeping, but still be emotionally and spiritually "well" and whole in the big picture even if your spouse is struggling or going through something themselves. There's a way of being supportive and empathetic without being completely overly involved in desperately trying to fix them and their problems FOR them. If my spouse is seriously ill or has lost his job, I will certainly be upset with/for him and do my best to support him, but I will not be destroyed by any "weight" he might bring to my life at certain times. I put my trust, hope and ultimate wellbeing in God's hands, not in how my spouse/marriage is doing. If my spouse is behaving towards me in a way that has no respect for my boundaries and my wellbeing ie. cheating or being abusive, I would have the self-respect to remove myself from his presence unless and until he is respectful towards my wellbeing again. I'm not saying this is easy, in fact, it's taken me lots of help and counseling to get to this point, because I used to take "being one" with him to the point where I was completely swallowed up and spit out by "us." I don't know how else to describe it. It's a bit of a delicate balance...finding a way to be intimate, involved and supportive without becoming too disconnected.

 

[JRSut1000]

There comes a point where you can rejoice while your partner is rejoicing and weep while they are weeping, but still be emotionally and spiritually "well" and whole in the big picture even if your spouse is struggling or going through something themselves.

This is right on! You described it so perfectly!

 

[JRSut1000]

Btw IME it happens just as much with men as with women...sometimes it manifests in different ways. It can be emotional neediness, it can also be controlling and manipulative behaviour, constantly trying to "fix" someone, etc. Just basically being overly involved in someone's "stuff" because you need them to be okay in order to be okay yourself. I don't think you fit that profile.

That's a really good point, I wasn't thinking of it manifesting in that way, but there's definitely more signs of unhealthy dependency that I realized and those ones make sense!

 

[FaithPrevails]

Whooo, some people are touchy touchy!

Co-dependency can be unhealthy, but on the flip side total independence isn't exactly what we're called to in marriage either. Like someone said, there has to be a balance.

I might get a lot of heat for this, but I consider myself a co-dependent with my husband. He works and provides for his family so that I don't have to. So financially I am dependent on my husband and I am completely happy with this. He is the leader in our home but he leads with a lot of what I've said in mind. We're partners, but I've chosen him to be the 'executive'.

I think co-dependency can get really bad when emotional neediness is involved. This can happen on either the part of man or woman, but usually the woman.

I think the difference is my own marriage is that I used to feel slighted if I didn't get enough attention or my man didn't 'want me' that night or didn't cuddle enough or call or talk long enough while away on business. While I'm very very happy with my spouse, happiness becomes a problem when that happiness is dependent on how my husband treated me that day. When my mood goes up and down based on how much attention or praise I receive from my spouse, then *I* have a problem - a major codependency problem.

I don't see being a SAHM as being co-dependent or even dependent. It is interdependent b/c the hubby is depending on the wife to keep the household running smoothly and for the primary care of the child(ren). JMHO

 

[FaithPrevails]

ps. I totally didn't read dreamer's response about interdependence before replying.

 

[JRSut1000]

I don't see being a SAHM as being co-dependent or even dependent. It is interdependent b/c the hubby is depending on the wife to keep the household running smoothly and for the primary care of the child(ren). JMHO

and a good opinion it is too, I'm of the same opinion!

 

[ke1985]

[911 edit] A marriage union is based on some dependency, right? The Bible even talks a little bit about it. If a husband comes home and his wife just isn't in a good mood, is his mood affected by this? Should it be? I am not saying we need to be dependent on each other for feelings, our dreams, needs but in a sense--do not our feelings reflect off each other? Don't our dreams, in a way, affect the other person?

I am trying to figure out how much we should be affected by the other spouse. For example, I drive wildly and my husband constantly tells me about it. Hes worried for me. Is this an example of codependency? Or what if my husband did stop hanging out so much with his friends to spend more time at home (not what is going on)? Is that codependency?

It all seems like a gray area, in some ways to me.

 

[JRSut1000]

I'm usually a black and white sorta person, but this is somewhat of a gray area and I think only each couple can determine if their marriage consists of healthy interdependency or whether it crosses over into unhealthy co-dependence.

I was going to say that if one spouse is feeling completely stifled by the other spouse, then this could be a sure sign. But then again, the feeling of 'being stifled' can be subjective and almost made-up! I've perceived control in relationships that really wasn't there at all, it was just my own fears. That happens too!

Really the best bet other than writing notes during every marital discussion with our spouse and then nagging each other about how the other is being controlling or too dependent, when both spouse is giving their all the Lord first, then their marriage falls into place. I know this sounds totally cliche, but when we're working on ourselves and letting the Lord point out areas that need construction, then both husband and wife are moving towards healthy interdependence.

 

[Edial]

Hi folks.
Please remember The Bickering rule ...

Bickering:

• Concentrate on the topic at hand.
• When someone shares a personal experience, it's their experience and not open for judgment or any disparaging responses.
• Don't jump to conclusions about what someone else means. Ask if you're unsure.
• Be clear about what in the post is unclear to you.

I realize that "Bickering" is an unpleasant sounding word ... but so is the bickering.

The suggestions above are honed to prevent bickering.

Thank you.
In Christ,
Ed