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CMB claims are religion

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by dad, Apr 23, 2019.

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  1. dad

    dad On the winning side

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    "
    Why microwaves?
    When the CMB was initially emitted it was not in the form of microwaves at all, but mostly visible and ultraviolet light. Over the past few billion years, the expansion of the universe has redshifted this radiation toward longer and longer wavelengths, until today it appears in the microwave band."

    The Cosmic Microwave Background

    What proof is there that over some insanely long imaginary time, radiation was redshifted to longer and longer wavelengths?

    Ha. The CMB claims are religion.
     
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  2. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Active Member

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    Feel free to get another competing theory peer reviewed and collect your just rewards.

    Otherwise it is just more of

    Your logical fallacy is personal incredulity
     
  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    An inability to understand something on your part does not mean that something is a religion. Now if you asked how they know that, that would be a valid question.

    For you, since you appear to have no understanding of the sciences at all it would have to be a religion. For those that can do basic science, not so much.
     
  4. dad

    dad On the winning side

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    You should understand that claiming a process created something over billions of years does require support. So...you know that the microwaves detected must have taken billions of years to redshift to the way they now are...because..?

    Ha
     
  5. dad

    dad On the winning side

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    ? How about creation started the ball rolling and any changes were over the time since the space and the stars started to exist? If you claim what we see involved billions of years and resulted in the microwaves that we see exist, you need to bear the full burden of proof. Since you cannot do that, you seek to shift the burden somewhere else.
     
  6. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    http://redshift.vif.com/JournalFiles/Pre2001/V02NO3PDF/V02N3ASS.PDF

    FYI, Eddington did a quick napkin calculation on the average temperate of space based on the absorption of starlight on the dust of spacetime and came within 1/2 of a degree of the correct temperature whereas early BB "predictions" were off by more than a whole order of magnitude. It took then 3 or 4 tries to get any closer than Eddington.

    Indeed. There are four unique "statements of faith" associated with it too including "space expansion", "inflation", "dark matter" and "dark energy". It's entirely based on faith in the unseen (in the lab).
     
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    Of course it does. And it is supported. Are you willing to go through how scientists know this? I will gladly go over it with you, but it has to be a discussion. You need to understand each step before we move on.
     
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  8. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    When you keep writing posts that indicate that you do not understand the scientific method you keep losing any credibility that you think that you may have.
     
  9. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    Credibility? You have no credible evidence that "space expansion" even happens, let alone that it has any effect on a photon. LCDM proponents have spent *billion* of dollars looking for dark matter in the lab and they've found nothing. You have no credible evidence to support dark energy or inflation either. They're all statements of faith in the unseen in the lab. Even most religions only require faith in a *single* unseen (in the lab) entity, not four!
     
  10. dad

    dad On the winning side

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    I could see where that could raise eyebrows.


    Seems somewhat circular, to claim that the redshift had to be due to expanding over deep unknown untested time.
     
  11. dad

    dad On the winning side

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    The way to move on is to try and explain your beliefs. If not they get rolled over.
     
  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    I am only going to deal with one science denier at a time.
     
  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    You mean what I know. I am willing to do so. Are you willing to try to learn? And dad, you could not "roll over" a day old bagel. If all you have is denial you will lose by default for the umpteenth time.
     
  14. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

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    Light from distant galaxies is redshifted due to the expansion of the universe. This is exactly the same effect.

    Now I expect you deny one just as much as the other, but what scientific cosmology provides is not a religion, but rather a coherent explanation.
     
  15. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    While Doppler shift is a known physical cause of redshift, 'space expansion' is actually an "act of faith" on the part of the believer. Nothing like that happens in the lab. The same is true of dark matter, dark energy, and inflation. All of them are acts of faith in the "unseen" in the lab. Typical religions only require faith in one unseen (in the lab) concept, not four.

    Plasma redshift has already been documented in the lab, It's known to cause redsfhift and the universe is full of plasma.
     
  16. dad

    dad On the winning side

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    We all would learn if you tried to make a case. It might not be what you wish us to learn though.
     
  17. dad

    dad On the winning side

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    How long does it take to make microwaves from this light shift exactly and how would you know?
     
  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    Most already understand this here. And please do not try to distort what is going on. I offered to help you to learn. I do not need to make a case since scientists have already done so. Are you willing to try to learn?
     
  19. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

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    It is not a direct measurement of time, but rather of expansion. The CMB stems from the period of recombination, when atoms formed and the universe became relatively transparent so that photons could travel freely. That happens at about 3000 Kelvin, so that was the temperature of the original radiation when it formed. We can measure the temperature of the existing CMB, which is more like 3K. That factor of 1000 is the redshift difference between then and now due to the expansion of space 'stretching out' the wavelengths of the light.

    To turn the redshift into a time measurement, we need to know how fast the universe is expanding, so this is why measurement of the Hubble constant is important. Combining CMB measurements with cosmological models provides us with our estimates of the age of the universe.
     
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  20. dad

    dad On the winning side

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    You know that it took billions of years to produce the microwaves out there...because..? Ha.
     
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