Clerical dress

[Arcangl86]

So here's a question I have. I went to seminary in a tradition that is officially egalitarian (in practice, meh it could be better) so I have a lot of friends who are women who happen to be pastors. But I have noticed that they as a whole tend to wear clerical clothing (aka a collar) far more then my male friends who are pastors, even though it's the same tradition. And i find this difference is even more apparent in traditions that are non liturgical. I've been told this is because people are much less likely to believe they are pastors without the physical reminder, but men don't have that issue as much. Does this resonate with anybody here?

 

[Dave G.]

No. I ran into a woman priest in full garb at the store a year or two back, she looked completely out of place and by that I mean mostly she acted out of place. Course we did face off not quite crashing into one another, never cracked a smile she seemed up tight... I wanted to say relax everything is ok. But I remained quiet and we just passed by each other. Dressed in black, white collar, big huge outrageous cross necklace thing on.

 

[grasping the after wind]

So here's a question I have. I went to seminary in a tradition that is officially egalitarian (in practice, meh it could be better) so I have a lot of friends who are women who happen to be pastors. But I have noticed that they as a whole tend to wear clerical clothing (aka a collar) far more then my male friends who are pastors, even though it's the same tradition. And i find this difference is even more apparent in traditions that are non liturgical. I've been told this is because people are much less likely to believe they are pastors without the physical reminder, but men don't have that issue as much. Does this resonate with anybody here?

I don't know why some people tend to want to wear a uniform to tell the world they are clerics. Frankly I am hoping these medieval costumes will be done away with in the 21st century. I have noticed women pastors in the ELCA do tend to wear the collar more often than the males. Perhaps it is because they aren't comfortable that people will accept them being pastors and want to reinforce their image?

 

[Albion]

I have noticed that they as a whole tend to wear clerical clothing (aka a collar) far more then my male friends who are pastors, even though it's the same tradition.

...I've been told this is because people are much less likely to believe they are pastors without the physical reminder, but men don't have that issue as much. Does this resonate with anybody here?

I hadn't thought about it, but that analysis may well be correct.

 

[JackRT]

Sundays and church events excepted, clerical garb is dying out even in Catholicism.

 

[archer75]

Hm. I thought clerical garb was kind of cool.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I like clergy in clerical garb. When I'm out with my priest in public, I never ceased to be amazed at what a conversation starter that collar is, such as random people coming up and asking for prayer and yes, of course, sometimes a handout. I wonder what opportunities for ministry would be missed if clergy were incognito? I hope it never goes away. If it does it will be just like the hospital where you can't tell a nurse or doctor from a housekeeper anymore. As for frequency difference between, men and women I can't say. Both are in collars where I am.

 

[JackRT]

A clerical collar is also good for a handout! I have seen priests and/or ministers in restaurants or at pharmacy counters, etc. being casually informed "Its on the house."

 

[Paidiske]

I would say that there are two main reasons why women tend to wear identifying clerical garb more than men (and yes, it's very much a reality here too). One is what you've identified. And I would say it goes further; I have noticed that when I wear a collar I am less likely to be ignored, dismissed, belittled or patronised inside the church, even when the fact of my ordination is well known to all present. It's as if it's a visual reminder to people that "Oh yeah, she's not just a kid, she's the vicar." Maybe this will change with age; I'll let you know in twenty years or so...

The other reason is the sexual abuse crisis. Many of my male colleagues won't wear a collar to walk down the street because they're wary of being harrassed or assaulted by people who equate "man in clerical dress" with paedophile, which is distressingly common. Women, by and large, don't have that problem to the same degree. (I have had people assume that I would cover up abuse or be an abuse apologist because I'm clergy, but I have not yet had people assume that I am myself an abuser because I'm clergy; and I have not suffered confrontation in public spaces to anything like the same degree).

I find, outside the church, wearing the collar is a big benefit to my ministry. It makes me identifiable, and therefore available. I have had people approach me on the street and ask me to pray with them, approach me in the supermarket and ask me for material aid, see me on the train and strike up conversations about God. The collar is a great way for me to open that door because it isn't pushy, people can recognise my role and choose the level at which they want to interact. But by making myself visible people do choose to approach me, and I've had many really precious interactions because of that.

I have never had the kind of freebie Jack mentions, though. I think that might have been more true here a generation ago.

Some of my colleagues avoid the collar more because they think it sends unfortunate messages, reinforces clericalism, etc. We each have to find our own personal style on this stuff, but I think a lot of it comes down to who you are and how you interact with people, much more than just what you wear. And like everything, there's a time and a place. There's a joke about clergy who are so unhealthily invested in their role that they have clerical collars in their pyjamas (not an actual thing, by the way - at least as far as I know. Suddenly I'm afraid to google!)

Oh, and for the record, clerical collars aren't medieval. They were invented by a Presbyterian in the 19th century. Prior to that, the primary form of distinctive clerical dress was the cassock.

 

[JackRT]

I would say that there are two main reasons why women tend to wear identifying clerical garb more than men (and yes, it's very much a reality here too). One is what you've identified. And I would say it goes further; I have noticed that when I wear a collar I am less likely to be ignored, dismissed, belittled or patronised inside the church, even when the fact of my ordination is well known to all present. It's as if it's a visual reminder to people that "Oh yeah, she's not just a kid, she's the vicar." Maybe this will change with age; I'll let you know in twenty years or so...

The other reason is the sexual abuse crisis. Many of my male colleagues won't wear a collar to walk down the street because they're wary of being harrassed or assaulted by people who equate "man in clerical dress" with paedophile, which is distressingly common. Women, by and large, don't have that problem to the same degree. (I have had people assume that I would cover up abuse or be an abuse apologist because I'm clergy, but I have not yet had people assume that I am myself an abuser because I'm clergy; and I have not suffered confrontation in public spaces to anything like the same degree).

I find, outside the church, wearing the collar is a big benefit to my ministry. It makes me identifiable, and therefore available. I have had people approach me on the street and ask me to pray with them, approach me in the supermarket and ask me for material aid, see me on the train and strike up conversations about God. The collar is a great way for me to open that door because it isn't pushy, people can recognise my role and choose the level at which they want to interact. But by making myself visible people do choose to approach me, and I've had many really precious interactions because of that.

I have never had the kind of freebie Jack mentions, though. I think that might have been more true here a generation ago.

Some of my colleagues avoid the collar more because they think it sends unfortunate messages, reinforces clericalism, etc. We each have to find our own personal style on this stuff, but I think a lot of it comes down to who you are and how you interact with people, much more than just what you wear. And like everything, there's a time and a place. There's a joke about clergy who are so unhealthily invested in their role that they have clerical collars in their pyjamas (not an actual thing, by the way - at least as far as I know. Suddenly I'm afraid to google!)

Oh, and for the record, clerical collars aren't medieval. They were invented by a Presbyterian in the 19th century. Prior to that, the primary form of distinctive clerical dress was the cassock.

Presbyterian? I have to wonder how the term "Roman collar" came about.

 

[Arcangl86]

I would say that there are two main reasons why women tend to wear identifying clerical garb more than men (and yes, it's very much a reality here too). One is what you've identified. And I would say it goes further; I have noticed that when I wear a collar I am less likely to be ignored, dismissed, belittled or patronised inside the church, even when the fact of my ordination is well known to all present. It's as if it's a visual reminder to people that "Oh yeah, she's not just a kid, she's the vicar." Maybe this will change with age; I'll let you know in twenty years or so...

The other reason is the sexual abuse crisis. Many of my male colleagues won't wear a collar to walk down the street because they're wary of being harrassed or assaulted by people who equate "man in clerical dress" with paedophile, which is distressingly common. Women, by and large, don't have that problem to the same degree. (I have had people assume that I would cover up abuse or be an abuse apologist because I'm clergy, but I have not yet had people assume that I am myself an abuser because I'm clergy; and I have not suffered confrontation in public spaces to anything like the same degree).

I find, outside the church, wearing the collar is a big benefit to my ministry. It makes me identifiable, and therefore available. I have had people approach me on the street and ask me to pray with them, approach me in the supermarket and ask me for material aid, see me on the train and strike up conversations about God. The collar is a great way for me to open that door because it isn't pushy, people can recognise my role and choose the level at which they want to interact. But by making myself visible people do choose to approach me, and I've had many really precious interactions because of that.

I have never had the kind of freebie Jack mentions, though. I think that might have been more true here a generation ago.

Some of my colleagues avoid the collar more because they think it sends unfortunate messages, reinforces clericalism, etc. We each have to find our own personal style on this stuff, but I think a lot of it comes down to who you are and how you interact with people, much more than just what you wear. And like everything, there's a time and a place. There's a joke about clergy who are so unhealthily invested in their role that they have clerical collars in their pyjamas (not an actual thing, by the way - at least as far as I know. Suddenly I'm afraid to google!)

Oh, and for the record, clerical collars aren't medieval. They were invented by a Presbyterian in the 19th century. Prior to that, the primary form of distinctive clerical dress was the cassock.

That really is interesting to show how important context is, the part about the sexual abuse crisis. Even though that happened here as well, I think it is less universal of a thing to assume all clergy are child molestors. That's definitely a different piece of it. I did get a freebee once wearing a collar, but that was a very specific context. I had just marched in Pride and went to buy a cold bottle of water from a street vendor and he gave it to me for free for being clergy. I was a seminarian in a tradition that allowed seminarians to wear collars but didn't feel like explaining that.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I think the collar adds an element of professionalism that I find desirable. I was in my 50's before I came to my present church were clergy are in collars and vested. For 50 years I before that I was part of a different tradition. In my youth its pastors wore robes in more formal churches and business suits if not robes. By the time I left the denomination, pastors were leading services looking like they just came in from working in the garden with white dad tennis shoes, ratty jeans, and shirts with the shirttails out. Rightly or wrongly, I took it as communicating that they weren't that serious about worship. As it pertains to the OP, my observation at the time was that female clergy in that tradition were more like to be in at least business casual clothes while men could be in what I call garden casual clothes. I always thought it was because the female clergy just had more class, while men were trying to appeal to some hip image that made them just one of the guys.

 

[Paidiske]

I think the collar adds an element of professionalism that I find desirable. I was in my 50's before I came to my present church were clergy are in collars and vested. For 50 years I before that I was part of a different tradition. In my youth its pastors wore robes in more formal churches and business suits if not robes. By the time I left the denomination, pastors were leading services looking like they just came in from working in the garden with white dad tennis shoes, ratty jeans, and shirts with the shirttails out. Rightly or wrongly, I took it as communicating that they weren't that serious about worship. As it pertains to the OP, my observation at the time was that female clergy in that tradition were more like to be in at least business casual clothes while men could be in what I call garden casual clothes. I always thought it was because the female clergy just had more class, while men were trying to appeal to some hip image that made them just one of the guys.

The professionalism thing can play out in different ways. I have one colleague who works in a very low socio-economic area where, if people have jobs, they're very blue-collar jobs. He told me once he doesn't wear a clerical collar because that would communicate that he belongs do a different social class than his congregation, and that would hinder his ministry. I can respect where he's coming from there.

I wonder whether the female clergy you observed "had more class," or were more used to having their appearance policed and commented on, too.

The stuff around how we dress, and what that communicates, is so complex and multi-layered...

 

[seeking.IAM]

...He told me once he doesn't wear a clerical collar because that would communicate that he belongs do a different social class than his congregation, and that would hinder his ministry.

I suspect that is an untested theory. And I think he is wrong about that. I see that in my profession as a therapist as well...providers that think they need to dress down so as not to create a divide between themselves and their clients. Poor people deserve professionalism, too. Being real and genuine always transcends outward appearances.

 

[bekkilyn]

I do wear clerical clothes on Sundays for church services and do not always change clothes if I go out with church members afterwards for food or for visits or meetings or whatever, but basically just wear jeans and a t-shirt for everyday since I work from home. Then I'll wear clergy clothes if an occasion calls for it, such as a hospital visit, particularly if the visit is for someone I don't know very well or who doesn't know me.

I'm not required to wear clergy clothes at all, even for church services, but I found that it seems for women in particular, people in some places seem to be very focused on what people are wearing rather than on the message. (I do know men who have experienced this as well, so it's not limited to women.) I find it less distracting to everyone to just wear the same clergy garb every week and that just cuts the "what so and so is wearing" issue right then and there.

I'm not a fashionista so it also greatly simplifies things for me to not need to worry about what I'm going to wear this Sunday.

p.s. One of the men who had this issue had three different churches and they all regularly complained about what he was wearing, but for different reasons. One church insisted he wear a suit and tie and another church hated him wearing a suit and tie and wanted more business casual, and the third church I don't even remember what issues they had!