Clergy Crisis in Catholicism

[bbbbbbb]

On another thread I posted the following. Rather than derail that thread, I have started this thread with a poll to see where folks, especially Catholics, stand on this critical issue.

Unless the shortage of priests in the United States radically turns around soon one of three possible things will happen -

1. The Pope will stand firm and there will be more and more Catholic church closings and consolidations along with declining membership numbers.
2. The floodgate will be opened when the Pope makes an infallible statement to the effect that celibate women can now officiate at the altar in a priestly manner, albeit under the authority of a priest who does not need to be physically present.
3. The floodgate will be opened when the Pope recognizes that the privileges of priestly marriage which are now practiced by former Anglican priests as well as those of other Catholic rites, are to be extended to all rites of the Catholic church.

My money is on #3. Where is yours?

 

[Albion]

#2.

(In any case, it's a refreshingly new--but still important--topic for a change. Good for you, bbbbbbb)

 

[bbbbbbb]

#2.

(In any case, it's a refreshingly new--but still important--topic for a change. Good for you, bbbbbbb)

Thank you. Please cast your vote. You now have the opportunity to sway the poll to a unanimous (if temporary) conclusion.

 

[FenderTL5]

My guess would be #3 prior to option 2 but from me it's merely a guess.

 

[Hank77]

I would hope #3 first. imho, it is a Biblically sound position both in the old and new covenants.

 

[rturner76]

I believe option 3 because from my understanding,it is not a part of Catholic dogma or spoken about ex cathedra.

"It wasn't until the medieval period that the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church began to require priestly celibacy. In the 11th century, Pope Gregory VII issued a decree requiring all priests to be celibate and he expected his bishops to enforce it. The decree stuck and celibacy has been the norm ever since in the Latin Rite."

"However, today, some Roman Catholic are married. The most well-known exception are former Anglican priests who came into the full communion of the Catholic Church and were accepted to ordination as Catholic priests. They either came in through what was called the pastoral provision (instituted under Pope St John Paul II) or through the Ordinariate established by Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.
Presently, there is discussion that the Catholic Church may consider an additional exception to the rule of priestly celibacy. In those regions where there are too few priests and people suffer without adequate access to the Sacraments, the Church may consider inviting married men into the priesthood, provided they are devout, proven and mature.

Or nothing may change at all."

A very brief history of priestly celibacy in the Catholic Church - Living Faith - Home & Family - News - Catholic Online

 

[JackRT]

#3 will come but so will #2 but only after several more decades.

 

[Arsenios]

On another thread I posted the following. Rather than derail that thread, I have started this thread with a poll to see where folks, especially Catholics, stand on this critical issue.

Unless the shortage of priests in the United States radically turns around soon one of three possible things will happen -

1. The Pope will stand firm and there will be more and more Catholic church closings and consolidations along with declining membership numbers.
2. The floodgate will be opened when the Pope makes an infallible statement to the effect that celibate women can now officiate at the altar in a priestly manner, albeit under the authority of a priest who does not need to be physically present.
3. The floodgate will be opened when the Pope recognizes that the privileges of priestly marriage which are now practiced by former Anglican priests as well as those of other Catholic rites, are to be extended to all rites of the Catholic church.

My money is on #3. Where is yours?

I would like to see the Latins permit the ordination of married men to the priesthood, because that would take them one step closer to the 2000 year old Way of all the rest of the Apostolic Churches....

In the late 1800s and early 1900s, when they had a lot of priests, they were very scathinng of the married priesthood of the Easterns, and even of those within their own Communion, the Eastern Rite Catholics in communion with Rome - They regarded them as vastly inferior and defiled, and scorned their practices, almost holding their noses at their Sacraments...

God humbles the proud...

A whole culture of practicing homosexual priests then developed in the Latin Church, which they are still dealing with, and which became a matter of public scrutiny and shame...

So that if God wants them to have a married priesthood, He will continue to choke off their supply of celibate priests...

We keep them in our prayers...

I think that the Pope will hold the line...

And I hope that he doesn't...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

#3 will come but so will #2 but only after several more decades.

I fear you may be right...

Arsenios

 

[bbbbbbb]

I would like to see the Latins permit the ordination of married men to the priesthood, because that would take them one step closer to the 2000 year old Way of all the rest of the Apostolic Churches....

In the late 1800s and early 1900s, when they had a lot of priests, they were very scathinng of the married priesthood of the Easterns, and even of those within their own Communion, the Eastern Rite Catholics in communion with Rome - They regarded them as vastly inferior and defiled, and scorned their practices, almost holding their noses at their Sacraments...

God humbles the proud...

A whole culture of practicing homosexual priests then developed in the Latin Church, which they are still dealing with, and which became a matter of public scrutiny and shame...

So that if God wants them to have a married priesthood, He will continue to choke off their supply of celibate priests...

We keep them in our prayers...

I think that the Pope will hold the line...

And I hope that he doesn't...

Arsenios

Thank you for your excellent and insightful post.

 

[Tigger45]

#3. Not only Anglican priests transferring over but I believe Eastern Catholics are allowed to be married also.

 

[bbbbbbb]

#3. Not only Anglican priests transferring over but I believe Eastern Catholics are allowed to be married also.

That is correct. This could be the necessary argument to open the way for all Catholic priests to marry. It is odd that a certain segment of Catholicism operates under the opposite standard of the rest if, as claimed, the Catholic Church is completely united in matters of faith and morals.

 

[Arsenios]

That is correct. This could be the necessary argument to open the way for all Catholic priests to marry. It is odd that a certain segment of Catholicism operates under the opposite standard of the rest if, as claimed, the Catholic Church is completely united in matters of faith and morals.

They simply regarded celibacy as better, and thought they were choosing the better part...
In the Orthodox Catholic Church, Priests cannot GET married, but they can BE married, so a common sight out of Seminary is graduates seeking wives in order to be ordained...

Our particular arch-diocese, the Antiochian, requires Her Bishops to be not married, or widowed... Our Bishops become monastics then in order to become Bishops... The Latins become monastics in order to become Priests...

A part of the idea is that the faithful of the Priest are mostly those who are married and their families, wheereas the faithful of the Bishop are the Priests... Oversight [Bishop's responsibility] goes to those least distracted by worldly concerns... And those are the celibate monks...

But in Apostolic Churches, no priest may marry...
And...
There have been deviations...

Arsenios

 

[CatholicCrusader]

<snip>
1. The Pope will stand firm and there will be more and more Catholic church closings and consolidations along with declining membership numbers.
2. The floodgate will be opened when the Pope makes an infallible statement to the effect that celibate women can now officiate at the altar in a priestly manner, albeit under the authority of a priest who does not need to be physically present.
3. The floodgate will be opened when the Pope recognizes that the privileges of priestly marriage which are now practiced by former Anglican priests as well as those of other Catholic rites, are to be extended to all rites of the Catholic church.

My money is on #3. Where is yours?

Lack of priests is a mere symptom of a wider anti-Christian attitude in society. 50 years ago a Catholic family would be proud to have a son become a priest. These days boys are not encouraged by their families like they use to be. Fixation on wealth, success, etc. makes families push their sons in other directions, sadly. As for your bullet points:

RE #3: Many Catholic priests are married. People are very uninformed on this issue. Eastern Rite Catholic priests CAN marry. Only Latin Rite priests cannot marry, and even then exceptions are made, the most notable being Anglican priests who become Catholics. This is a "discipline", not a doctrine, and therefore it can be changed at any time. Having said that, it was good for Jesus and for Paul, and I see no reason to change it.

RE #2: That cannot happen. A lengthy explanation of Sacramental Theology would be required for me to explain why, which I don't feel like pasting here right now.

RE #1: Pope must always stand firm on Dogma - they have no choice. A Pope cannot change the books of the Bible, a Pope cannot declare that Jesus did not rise from the dead, a Pope cannot deny the Trinity..... .....a Pope cannot deny or change any infallibly defined Dogma.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Lack of priests is a mere symptom of a wider anti-Christian attitude in society. 50 years ago a Catholic family would be proud to have a son become a priest. These days boys are not encouraged by their families like they use to be. Fixation on wealth, success, etc. makes families push their sons in other directions, sadly. As for your bullet points:

RE #3: Many Catholic priests are married. People are very uninformed on this issue. Eastern Rite Catholic priests CAN marry. Only Latin Rite priests cannot marry, and even then exceptions are made, the most notable being Anglican priests who become Catholics. This is a "discipline", not a doctrine, and therefore it can be changed at any time. Having said that, it was good for Jesus and for Paul, and I see no reason to change it.

RE #2: That cannot happen. A lengthy explanation of Sacramental Theology would be required for me to explain why, which I don't feel like pasting here right now.

RE #1: Pope must always stand firm on Dogma - they have no choice. A Pope cannot change the books of the Bible, a Pope cannot declare that Jesus did not rise from the dead, a Pope cannot deny the Trinity..... .....a Pope cannot deny or change any infallibly defined Dogma.

Thank you. The only thing I would add is that if marriage was good for Peter, it ought to be good for all who claim to follow him.

 

[Arsenios]

Eastern Rite Catholic priests CAN marry.

While they may marry PRIOR to ordination, I think they may NOT marry AFTER ordination...

Please correct me if I am wrong...

Arsenios

 

[CatholicCrusader]

Thank you. The only thing I would add is that if marriage was good for Peter, it ought to be good for all who claim to follow him.

And may I also add to your add: Peter never married after being chosen as an apostle. It is the same with priests today.

While they may marry PRIOR to ordination, I think they may NOT marry AFTER ordination...
Please correct me if I am wrong...
Arsenios

That may well be correct.

 

[Arsenios]

Peter never married after being chosen as an apostle.
It is the same with priests today.

I have not followed the story of Peter's marital status...
Was he married when called by Christ?
Did he then become a widow?

That may well be correct.

The "Eastern Rite" Latin Churches,
IF they follow the Orthodox Way,
may only marry prior to Ordination...

They do say that they are eactly the same as the EOC,
with the SOLE exception being the fact that
they are in Communion with Latin Rome,
and not with Greek Rome [Constantinople]...

Arsenios

 

[bbbbbbb]

And may I also add to your add: Peter never married after being chosen as an apostle. It is the same with priests today.


That may well be correct.

Nobody knows when Peter married. It is not likely that he was married when called as an apostle.

 

[CatholicCrusader]

I have not followed the story of Peter's marital status...
Was he married when called by Christ?
Did he then become a widow?.........(snip)

Nobody knows when Peter married. It is not likely that he was married when called as an apostle.

Try this >> Did Peter Have a Wife?