Clean vs messy lifestyle difference

Fivesenses

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A quick question for those who are married - when two people are different in their way of managing and organising the house, will it inevitably lead to tension and constant conflict until one person changes completely? I'm still living at home (24 yrs) and for many years, my mum has been drilling into my head that no man can put up with me and I will end up having a miserable marriage because I'm no good at cleaning and managing the house (my mum is really neat and organised, cleaning almost everyday and takes pride in keeping everything clean while I'm very much unlike her). She advocates that if one cannot keep their room clean, then they probably can't keep their hearts clean either (am I the only one who disagrees with this logic?).

I think I take after my dad (being more laid back at home but more diligent at work). As a result, I can see that their marriage has always been very tense because of this difference i.e. clean vs messy as my mum would always fly off the handle at my father. He is a very spiritual man but sometimes can lose his temper when pushed too far.

The problem is I'm starting to have very insecure and fearful moments for my own future (I know our Father tells us not to be anxious for anything) whenever my mum yells at me and brings up the point about my future miserable marriage. She believes that if I don't change now, I will end up causing huge fights with my husband like her marriage because 'no man can put up with me' being so messy. The thing is, my boyfriend (also a very devout Christian and he is an awesome man with a lot of patience) is similar to my mum in the sense that he likes things organised and neat. He enjoys cleaning while I don't and is happy to clean the house etc. I'm starting to fear that he will become like my mum and what she says will come true - that my marriage will end up being like hers. She has been telling me that I should save him from misery and to break up now instead of making him go through a life time of misery trying to live with me. While I have been trying to combat such lies, I'm finding it harder and harder not to suffer from anxiety and fear - I seriously contemplated for a moment today to break up because I didn't want him to suffer because of me and I was shocked at even the thought coming into my mind.

I really need prayer and to meditate on His words more - please give me some advice. Is this likely going to be a cause of miserable marriage and how should I endure this put downs for much longer? (I'm trying hard to be the right one for him by learning to cook and working on my faith, using this opportunity at home so that I don't become a contentious wife and learning to constantly encourage and compliment him. Having grown up never hearing my mum complimenting my father, but complaining about him and never showing physical affection, I'm scared to death that I will one day become like her unconsciously and I've been making a conscious effort to be the opposite - and giving words of affirmation doesn't seem so hard after practicing constantly now). I feel like there's a daily spiritual battle for my mind while I'm trying to honour my mum by keeping my mouth shut but also ensuring that my self-esteem remains intact.
 
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~Anastasia~

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It can be a point of contention in a marriage but I think that depends more on other factors as well.

Not thinking of your mother either way, but how do you feel about yourself and your surroundings? If you actually like things to be orderly, you can learn those skills. If you like them messy, it might be the answers to other questions could be helpful.

As to a spiritual consideration, there actually are several. If things are messy because we have too much stuff, should we be sharing it with others? Are we stockpiling because we don't trust God? Also there is something to be said for clear thought and a tranquil mind and these are easier to have in an orderly environment.

I understand the question though. I like to do a lot of artistic things, and perfect order is not conducive to the kind of work I usually do. I need to see things with other things and rearrange them. But - I prefer to keep that confined if possible, and if my tools are not cleaned and put away, I can't find them and they don't last as long, so even there I have to have a degree of order. (We won't talk about my house right now - I've had medical issues for the better part of a year and my home has definitely suffered! But my point is that I'm not condescending to you in this - I'm presently struggling too!)

But - what do YOU want for YOURSELF, first of all? Because if you do like order, that's just a skill that can be learned, and all these other questions and problems go away in that case.
 
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Fivesenses

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Actually, I value order and organisation in certain areas of my life (for example, I've been told that I'm the most organised person at work because I do ensure that I put things in their place where I can find them). The problem is at home - I don't see the point of cleaning everyday and I don't feel the need to place every clothing and object in their right place. It's more like domestically, I will clean once when I see the need and other times I just let things go because I find it frustrating and time consuming to worry that much about keeping the house tidy e.g. leaving some clothes on bed or chair is fine with me whereas it would make my mum go insane to see clothes on chairs or lying around. Even hair on the ground would cause strife.
 
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akmom

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No, your mom is just a jerk. Even if you were a hopeless slob, a good mom would use words of encouragement and give specific suggestions to help you in that area. People who only use putdowns and promise doom seldom have a legitimate concern; they are just casting off their own frustrations by blaming others.

I would suspect that your mother is not actually good at housekeeping. If she were, then she would have a thoughtful system in place for everything, and she would have shared it with her children as she raised them, working with them while they were young and slowly giving them more independent roles as they got older. You would have no trouble fitting organization into your life. I'm sorry that your mother did not do her job in this respect. That the whole family has to be yelled at because she finds it so difficult to maintain the household standards she wants.

My own mother did the same thing, but when I (supposedly a great slob) grew up and ran my own household, I realized that my mom had so much trouble cleaning because she didn't plan her household well and was always trying to fit too many things into too little space. And we kids were the victims of the same thing: too few dressers and closet space, and too many clothes, or too little storage space and an endless supply of craft projects. My mom bought us all these things with good intentions, and expected us to keep our rooms clean, despite it being unrealistic. After a few years on my own, I felt my household was much neater and definitely more organized than my mother's. Don't let your mother's opinion of you define yours, because all you know is that you aren't very organized with your mother's household.

All you need to do to be organized is never have too much stuff. Don't buy things you don't need, and don't keep stuff you don't use. Any time you consider a purchase, first decide where you would put it. And invest in the right amount of storage. My mom was a shopaholic, so I now understand why keeping a clean house was such a chore for her and caused her to lash out at everyone who didn't appear to be helping her with that monumental task. But you've got one thing right: being a loving wife is more important than being a neat freak, and you sound like you've got your priorities right.
 
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Rescued One

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My own mother kept a very neat house and she told me that no one would be able to visit my home because I wouldn't be able to open the front door. My mother-in-law also kept a perfect home; her sister had a messy house. My husband was very laid back with me (I'm messy). He didn't mind a little mess. I cooked his favorite foods, enjoyed doing things that he liked doing, didn't argue over finances, and we had a happy marriage. The only thing he hated was to have a woman get bossy with him. Thankfully I was not that type.

P.S. I learned to cook AFTER we married. I made lots of mistakes but he never criticized.
 
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akmom

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My husband and I had an argument about house cleaning early in our marriage. We had a newborn and the house was getting really messy. Mind you, he never did any chores or helped with the baby at all, but he did complain about the house. (He worked, I didn't.) I finally told him, "You can have a clean house or you can have a relaxed house. Pick one. Because I can make this place spotless. I can scream every time you take off your socks and they don't go directly into the laundry bin. I can nag you to scrape your plate and help with dishes. But I never do any of that. I pick up after you and I get to it when I get to it. People with clean houses have wives that nag about it constantly. Wives that don't obsess and nag about the house... have messy houses. Take your pick." And I dared him to think of ANY woman, of any age, that we've ever known who kept a spotless house and didn't nag. He couldn't think of one. That's just the trade-off. Ask your dad which he prefers. And someday, ask your husband too. Go from there!
 
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Paidiske

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I found this book really helpful when I was trying to get my head around balancing everything in a household:

A Mother's Rule of Life: How to Bring Order to Your Home and Peace to Your Soul: Holly Pierlot: 9781928832416: Amazon.com: Books

I don't agree with absolutely everything the author says, but the basic principle of working out what's important to you, and then making sure you make time for those things in a way that works for you, is something I use now to kind of keep on top of all the different things going on!
 
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quatona

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A quick question for those who are married - when two people are different in their way of managing and organising the house, will it inevitably lead to tension and constant conflict until one person changes completely? I'm still living at home (24 yrs) and for many years, my mum has been drilling into my head that no man can put up with me and I will end up having a miserable marriage because I'm no good at cleaning and managing the house (my mum is really neat and organised, cleaning almost everyday and takes pride in keeping everything clean while I'm very much unlike her). She advocates that if one cannot keep their room clean, then they probably can't keep their hearts clean either (am I the only one who disagrees with this logic?).

I think I take after my dad (being more laid back at home but more diligent at work). As a result, I can see that their marriage has always been very tense because of this difference i.e. clean vs messy as my mum would always fly off the handle at my father. He is a very spiritual man but sometimes can lose his temper when pushed too far.

The problem is I'm starting to have very insecure and fearful moments for my own future (I know our Father tells us not to be anxious for anything) whenever my mum yells at me and brings up the point about my future miserable marriage. She believes that if I don't change now, I will end up causing huge fights with my husband like her marriage because 'no man can put up with me' being so messy. The thing is, my boyfriend (also a very devout Christian and he is an awesome man with a lot of patience) is similar to my mum in the sense that he likes things organised and neat. He enjoys cleaning while I don't and is happy to clean the house etc. I'm starting to fear that he will become like my mum and what she says will come true - that my marriage will end up being like hers. She has been telling me that I should save him from misery and to break up now instead of making him go through a life time of misery trying to live with me. While I have been trying to combat such lies, I'm finding it harder and harder not to suffer from anxiety and fear - I seriously contemplated for a moment today to break up because I didn't want him to suffer because of me and I was shocked at even the thought coming into my mind.

I really need prayer and to meditate on His words more - please give me some advice. Is this likely going to be a cause of miserable marriage and how should I endure this put downs for much longer? (I'm trying hard to be the right one for him by learning to cook and working on my faith, using this opportunity at home so that I don't become a contentious wife and learning to constantly encourage and compliment him. Having grown up never hearing my mum complimenting my father, but complaining about him and never showing physical affection, I'm scared to death that I will one day become like her unconsciously and I've been making a conscious effort to be the opposite - and giving words of affirmation doesn't seem so hard after practicing constantly now). I feel like there's a daily spiritual battle for my mind while I'm trying to honour my mum by keeping my mouth shut but also ensuring that my self-esteem remains intact.
I think your mother put an incredibly heavy burden on you by telling you that there´s something wrong with you.
 
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Fivesenses

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My father voluntarily tells me that he prefers a woman who doesn't nag any day and he doesn't actually appreciate the cleanness of the house because of the nagging. He tells me that a man is blessed with a wife who builds him up with encouragement and doesn't nag but he believes that it is rare to find such a woman. The nagging causes most men to resort to work and other avenues of escape which fuels the wife's complaints and unhappiness so the cycle continues (only Christ can break that vicious cycle).

One of my greatest hopes is that I can pass down a healthy example of a loving marriage (where husband and wife actually prioritise their relationship without it becoming child-centred which is what often happens when life gets in the way and both people fall into the trap of not making time for the relationship). I've seen it too often around me even in the church and in the Christian circle - sadly even the most godly men I've met have either made their work or children the priority after God rather than their wife and vice versa - the marriage seems more like a duty/room mate kind of thing which serves as a constant reminder for me to keep the right priorities in my life (and cleaning/house duties come under time with my husband and children).

I'm terrified to death about nagging and becoming a control freak and I pray that God trains me to become a virtuous wife, a blessing to my husband and God forbid that I don't ever deprive him of verbal and physical affection because I can see the disastrous consequences not only for the spouse but also the children. Displays of affection and supportiveness are far more important on my list than what my mum deems as a capable housekeeping wife - but I sometimes do start to feel the effect of being put down constantly and have self-esteem issues as a result.

For example, I spent a long time cooking something for my boyfriend the other day (because I wanted to give him a surprise and also I know that he appreciates my effort more than the taste of the end product) and my mum just scoffed at it saying that there's no point in me trying to capture a man's heart with such efforts of romance when I can't even fix my daily habit of keeping everything neat - eventually I'll lose any man's heart anyway despite my efforts to be romantic. I actually believed this and wanted to throw my food gift in the bin but then I realised that idea wasn't even biblical. I don't need to capture a man's heart and keep it if I am pleasing God - pleasing God and serving my husband as a result will probably create the by product of a happy husband.

I actually couldn't believe my ears when my boyfriend complimented by appearance and told me how beautiful I am (including my body after I told him I thought I was too fat and he was just shocked that I thought that about myself. I'm definitely not overweight... am on the curvy side but I've been put down for not being thin enough). I realised in that moment that I've been accepting the lie that I'm fat and ugly because I constantly get that message drilled into my head by my mum who aspires to be thin. I've been much more cautious about defending and protecting my mind and heart from then onwards.
 
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~Anastasia~

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My father voluntarily tells me that he prefers a woman who doesn't nag any day and he doesn't actually appreciate the cleanness of the house because of the nagging. He tells me that a man is blessed with a wife who builds him up with encouragement and doesn't nag but he believes that it is rare to find such a woman. The nagging causes most men to resort to work and other avenues of escape which fuels the wife's complaints and unhappiness so the cycle continues (only Christ can break that vicious cycle).

One of my greatest hopes is that I can pass down a healthy example of a loving marriage (where husband and wife actually prioritise their relationship without it becoming child-centred which is what often happens when life gets in the way and both people fall into the trap of not making time for the relationship). I've seen it too often around me even in the church and in the Christian circle - sadly even the most godly men I've met have either made their work or children the priority after God rather than their wife and vice versa - the marriage seems more like a duty/room mate kind of thing which serves as a constant reminder for me to keep the right priorities in my life (and cleaning/house duties come under time with my husband and children).

I'm terrified to death about nagging and becoming a control freak and I pray that God trains me to become a virtuous wife, a blessing to my husband and God forbid that I don't ever deprive him of verbal and physical affection because I can see the disastrous consequences not only for the spouse but also the children. Displays of affection and supportiveness are far more important on my list than what my mum deems as a capable housekeeping wife - but I sometimes do start to feel the effect of being put down constantly and have self-esteem issues as a result.

For example, I spent a long time cooking something for my boyfriend the other day (because I wanted to give him a surprise and also I know that he appreciates my effort more than the taste of the end product) and my mum just scoffed at it saying that there's no point in me trying to capture a man's heart with such efforts of romance when I can't even fix my daily habit of keeping everything neat - eventually I'll lose any man's heart anyway despite my efforts to be romantic. I actually believed this and wanted to throw my food gift in the bin but then I realised that idea wasn't even biblical. I don't need to capture a man's heart and keep it if I am pleasing God - pleasing God and serving my husband as a result will probably create the by product of a happy husband.

I actually couldn't believe my ears when my boyfriend complimented by appearance and told me how beautiful I am (including my body after I told him I thought I was too fat and he was just shocked that I thought that about myself. I'm definitely not overweight... am on the curvy side but I've been put down for not being thin enough). I realised in that moment that I've been accepting the lie that I'm fat and ugly because I constantly get that message drilled into my head by my mum who aspires to be thin. I've been much more cautious about defending and protecting my mind and heart from then onwards.

Then I think you are well on your way to finding your answers. :)

I'm sorry that your mother has been saying such hurtful things to you. That really isn't right, and I can't imagine treating my daughter that way. You aren't likely to change her, sadly. But you must forgive her, and that can be a long and difficult process. It's maybe best to understand that she is probably carrying some hurt, and try to understand that is where she is speaking from. Pray for her. But at the same time, pray for yourself. Try to free yourself from the ways of thinking she is putting on you. Be thankful that you have developed some understanding of real priorities. Talk to your boyfriend, and if he (or someone else someday) becomes your husband, keep talking. Keep communication honest and open, and you will know what to do and how to adjust. You've been given other good advice here too. I am sorry, again, that your mother is treating you this way. :(

God be with you.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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Ignore your mother, sounds super judgy.

That aside clean vs dirty can cause issues in marriage sometimes. Some get used to it. Some make changes. Some can't stand it and fight forever. I remember a woman who divorced her husband because he kept putting his dirty clothes on a railing along a wall instead of in the hamper. Mind you thats bizarre to divorce someone over lol.

Me? I grew up with parents who always cleaned and were organized. Everything had a place. My room was incredible and people often wondered "Are you sure you live in that room?". Now when I got married I found out my wife was not clean at all really. Sort of leaves things all over. Sometimes doesn't clean up after she does things. Has clothes all over. our bedroom looked like a giant messy closet with random stuff all over.

We fought alot about it. Sometimes VERY heated arguments. I HATE a mess. I'm a germphobe and a clean freak. BUT... over the last few years we sort of have gotten used to it. Shes a bit cleaner then before. I can't force her to change and she can't force me to change. So we sort of met a happy middle place. I still sometimes get annoyed when the room is overly messy, but I just encourage her to try and clean it up.

Sadly in the case of my parents, now that my dad is older hes becoming messy and its driving my mom up the wall. They are fighting sometimes daily about what he doesn't do. But they still love each other regardless.

So short answer? It may cause issues. Talk to the future person about what you are like and find out what they are like. Maybe let them see what your place looks like and vica versa. Its better to do this early on and face a possible break up then wait until your married where you risk someone bottling up spite about it for the rest of the marriage. Or just find someone whos also a bit messy. lol. Though being messy isn't always a healthy environment. Especially if you want to have kids.
 
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Martyr's Crown

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My father voluntarily tells me that he prefers a woman who doesn't nag any day and he doesn't actually appreciate the cleanness of the house because of the nagging. He tells me that a man is blessed with a wife who builds him up with encouragement and doesn't nag but he believes that it is rare to find such a woman. The nagging causes most men to resort to work and other avenues of escape which fuels the wife's complaints and unhappiness so the cycle continues (only Christ can break that vicious cycle).

One of my greatest hopes is that I can pass down a healthy example of a loving marriage (where husband and wife actually prioritise their relationship without it becoming child-centred which is what often happens when life gets in the way and both people fall into the trap of not making time for the relationship). I've seen it too often around me even in the church and in the Christian circle - sadly even the most godly men I've met have either made their work or children the priority after God rather than their wife and vice versa - the marriage seems more like a duty/room mate kind of thing which serves as a constant reminder for me to keep the right priorities in my life (and cleaning/house duties come under time with my husband and children).

I'm terrified to death about nagging and becoming a control freak and I pray that God trains me to become a virtuous wife, a blessing to my husband and God forbid that I don't ever deprive him of verbal and physical affection because I can see the disastrous consequences not only for the spouse but also the children. Displays of affection and supportiveness are far more important on my list than what my mum deems as a capable housekeeping wife - but I sometimes do start to feel the effect of being put down constantly and have self-esteem issues as a result.

For example, I spent a long time cooking something for my boyfriend the other day (because I wanted to give him a surprise and also I know that he appreciates my effort more than the taste of the end product) and my mum just scoffed at it saying that there's no point in me trying to capture a man's heart with such efforts of romance when I can't even fix my daily habit of keeping everything neat - eventually I'll lose any man's heart anyway despite my efforts to be romantic. I actually believed this and wanted to throw my food gift in the bin but then I realised that idea wasn't even biblical. I don't need to capture a man's heart and keep it if I am pleasing God - pleasing God and serving my husband as a result will probably create the by product of a happy husband.

I actually couldn't believe my ears when my boyfriend complimented by appearance and told me how beautiful I am (including my body after I told him I thought I was too fat and he was just shocked that I thought that about myself. I'm definitely not overweight... am on the curvy side but I've been put down for not being thin enough). I realised in that moment that I've been accepting the lie that I'm fat and ugly because I constantly get that message drilled into my head by my mum who aspires to be thin. I've been much more cautious about defending and protecting my mind and heart from then onwards.

I think you have many good thoughts and I believe you will become a really great wife someday. And you seem to be having a very understanding boyfriend that also loves you for who you are, and appreciates your efforts.

I myself can be similiar to how you are, I can fine adapt living in a home which isn't always very clean and can be messy at times. Whilst my husband is a much more organized person and likes to keep it more clean and tidy around. Nowadays I do want to work on myself and becoming better with keeping the house more clean and tidy up, but there are still periods where I don't always do a lot in the home. My husband has also become more laid back, so during those times when the home might get a bit messy again he won't make such a big deal out of it.

Concerning my own mother she didn't show much interest in teaching me to for example cook when I was younger, if I would ask her to let me try, she wouldn't teach me anything. When there were many months before me and my husband were going to get married my mother got more busy with wanting to teach me, but she never wanted to let me try doing anything by myself, she only wanted me to watch her do everything, whilst I learn better when I try doing things as well. Mother wasn't the best person to teach, so to say.

After I got married I sure thought it was nice to start learning more on my own, nowadays I would love to learn to cook more by scratch, to bake, and to get more skilled with more housechore doings too... Though I still think there should be a good balance in between so that you don't end up focusing only on maintaining a clean and tidy home enviroment, everything shouldn't be focused on how it looks from the outward apperances the most. A happy home is also a home where everyone feels loved and well taken care of, as well as where God is the main center of attention.

I know it hurts all of the things your mother tells you, but honestly, I think you sound very mature and have thought through all of this very well. Marriages aren't always easy, it needs to be worked on throughout most of your life. But with how you are thinking now not having gotten married yet, I believe you will enter the marriage life with much sucess! Also keep in mind that you are not supposed becoming like your mother, you are supposed becoming the woman God wants you to be! :heart: :)
 
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Poppyseed78

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I'm late to the thread but agree with others. Your mom is wrong to put you down and tell you that you'd make your future husband miserable. In addition to being untrue, this is also very mean. She should be encouraging you, not tearing you down. Try to ignore what she says, and if she repeats it, just say "Thank you for your opinion."

As far as your housekeeping skill - it sounds fine to me. So what if some clothes are not put away immediately? There's a difference between a few items laying around, and actual filth. I value a clean house, but I don't clean every single day. I prefer quality time with my husband. I worked out a schedule for cleaning, and it works for us. My husband hasn't complained. If guests were to drop in unexpected, I wouldn't die of embarrassment.

If you want to improve your cleaning skills, then you can do so. This is not something that is set in stone. Keep in mind though, there are more important things in a marriage than a pile of unfolded laundry in the basket or some mail left on the counter.
 
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Earatha

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So if my husband and I fight about anything, it's house cleaning. We've generally kinda agreed that whoever is at home more should do more work around the house to keep it clean. So during the semester when I'm at class if he's not working I expect him to do something. If he's at work I'll clean up. I hate to think what it'll be like after graduation, but I'll probably end up doing most of it.

Messy/clean doesn't HAVE to be a point of contention. Your home doesn't have to be spotless, just "good enough" as engineers like to say.
 
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Fivesenses

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Thank you for everyone's words of wisdom. I'm trying to resist self defeating thoughts and keep my mouth shut when I hear critical words from my mum. Today it just escalated to another degree - I forgot to get rid of my hair on the floor and left some clothes on a chair in the bathroom - which then caused her to shout that my behaviour is gross, my body is gross and my feet is gross too (don't know how she got that one but those were her exact words). That my bf might think I'm cute (since he says he likes me with a bit of flesh) but I'm bringing him shame when I'm next to him because other people might wonder why he found such a fat gf (I'm 60~kg and 162cm). She then proceeded to demand me to stand on the scales so she can see how much I weighed to which I gently refused by stating that would violate my dignity and she was being too controlling. Praise God she didn't drag me onto the scales which she would do if angered enough. She did however threaten to hit / beat my mouth - in those situations it is best to keep quiet because I could have easily said something that would provoke actual beating. I've had some honest talks with my bf in which I told him I might have some low self esteem issues due to these situations but I'm working on trying to pray and honour and overcoming these negative thoughts.

This berating was triggered by her finding out that I ate some chocolate biscuits I bought from the supermarket (with my own money and she ended up confiscating the biscuits... I'm 25 yrs old btw). Then she was wondering why I'm so indifferent and not hurt by her words (well because I'm working on keeping calm and replacing these things with God's truth).

I'm trying to rejoice in all these situations because I know that this season is preparing me to be gentle and patient rather than argumentative or easily damaged by others' criticism - valuable qualities that will bless my marriage and future works God wants me to do. But it can get hard when I'm in it frequently and I was nearly brought to tears when she said I was gross in so many ways - despite my effort to pray and resist those words. Please pray for me to overcome and rise above.
 
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Poppyseed78

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I'm so sorry your mom yelled at you like that. It sounds very hurtful. She was wrong, and you didn't deserve it. She sounds quite troubled.

I think it's admirable that you're using this experience as a way to improve your own character and work on your patience. That's a very mature outlook to take. I'm praying for strength for you.
 
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Fivesenses

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I'm currently saving money for my wedding and house so I'm stuck home and don't have my own car yet since I just started working full time last year. If all goes well and to plan, my bf and I are working towards marriage so we are thinking of getting married within the next 2 years.
 
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RedPonyDriver

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At home, I'm a disaster. I'll step over things instead of picking them up. My desk is piled with papers...stacks and stacks of them (projects, tests to grade...). My husband is the opposite...very organized, almost a neat freak. My house isn't dirty, just messy. The kitchen and bathroom is clean, the cat box gets cleaned regularly. The rest...meh. How we handled it? We pared our lives down to the essentials, not a lot of extras. We both do things that we're good at...I'm good at cooking, cleaning the kitchen and handling finances. He's good at laundry and vacuuming...so we do what we do best. Tell your mother to stuff it.
 
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