Clarification on rich

[YCGP]

I read an article in which the writer referred to himself as rich. Instead of giving a dollar figure, he wrote:

"I, too, am a fat North American cat. A rich Christian who gives away more than 10 percent, but still has much to spare. I haven't ever needed to worry about how we would pay for groceries or keep the electricity from being shut off. When one of our children outgrows a bicycle, we buy a new one. When a school fee is due, we write a check. When the co-pay for one of our children's surgeries registers $200, I don't decide what necessity we'll temporarily live without.

I wake to clean water running from my faucet. I have multiple toilets that flush. The nearest hospital is minutes from my house, and the neighborhood where I live is safe. We own two cars and two refrigerators. In the winter, all seven of us leave the house in goose-down coats. In the summer, we afford the luxury of keeping cool. Worse, my husband's executive salary affords many of our wants as easily as it affords all of our needs."

If this is rich then my mother and father are rich. This is of great concern to me because of bible passage of the camel and the needle.

Any insight?

 

[Sabertooth]

If I can chime in,
I believe that "rich" (in that passage) should be translated as "materialistic."

One can be rich without being materialistic. And one can be materialistic without being rich.

Further, Jesus promises mansions to the occupants of heaven, so luxury, itself, isn't a problem (when attained rightfully). Worldly luxury is only a problem when it unseats God from the throne of our hearts, per Exodus 20:3.

(The same holds true if we substitute "pleasure" for "luxury" above.)

 

[WadeTheophan]

I read an article in which the writer referred to himself as rich. Instead of giving a dollar figure, he wrote:

"I, too, am a fat North American cat. A rich Christian who gives away more than 10 percent, but still has much to spare. I haven't ever needed to worry about how we would pay for groceries or keep the electricity from being shut off. When one of our children outgrows a bicycle, we buy a new one. When a school fee is due, we write a check. When the co-pay for one of our children's surgeries registers $200, I don't decide what necessity we'll temporarily live without.

I wake to clean water running from my faucet. I have multiple toilets that flush. The nearest hospital is minutes from my house, and the neighborhood where I live is safe. We own two cars and two refrigerators. In the winter, all seven of us leave the house in goose-down coats. In the summer, we afford the luxury of keeping cool. Worse, my husband's executive salary affords many of our wants as easily as it affords all of our needs."

If this is rich then my mother and father are rich. This is of great concern to me because of bible passage of the camel and the needle.

Any insight?

I like Sabertooth’s response. I think rich is a state of mind and heart for one who takes pride in their wealth, flaunting it in the face of others and holding on to the wealth when he could/should be sharing. Remember King David was extremely rich but he still found favor in God’s eyes. It’s not just the money it’s a matter of treasuring your wealth instead of God.

 

[Chesterton]

This is of great concern to me because of bible passage of the camel and the needle.

Any insight?

I understand, this is of great concern to me also. I look at it in terms of time and space, and I know I'm richer than the vast majority of people who've lived in the past, and the majority of people in other places on Earth today. But, I'm not rich by the American standard. So am I rich? I don't know. I worry about it though.

 

[Glaucus]

I understand, this is of great concern to me also. I look at it in terms of time and space, and I know I'm richer than the vast majority of people who've lived in the past, and the majority of people in other places on Earth today. But, I'm not rich by the American standard. So am I rich? I don't know. I worry about it though.

I think that questioning whether or not you're rich and worrying about it, so as to not displease God, means that you're not rich in the sense that God meant.

 

[Chesterton]

I think that questioning whether or not you're rich and worrying about it, so as to not displease God, means that you're not rich in the sense that God meant.

That may be a really good point.

 

[YCGP]

That is a good point...

I also wonder if there is an exponential component. Does more money make it increasingly difficult to live in a way that pleases God?

 

[ArmyMatt]

it is not impossible for the rich to be saved, only extremely difficult because wealth can become our god. we have had wealthy saints who used their money to further the Gospel

 

[YCGP]

This is one place where I am stuck. I can't seem to wrap my head around it.

At what point is one rich?

I do not want to attempt to do what is extremely difficult, though I do not want to be poor either.

 

[prodromos]

My father-in-law came from a very aristocratic family (although they lost eveything when they were booted out of Constantinople by the Turks), yet he would literally give the shirt off his own back if he saw someone in need.
I guess our attitude needs to be one of seeing what we have as not being ours, but ultimately belonging to God, and we are simply stewards of that wealth.

 

[archer75]

I admit I'm interested in Orthodox perspectives on this. To me it always seems that the ideal is poverty - not squalor, but having nothing more than is strictly necessary.

My friends from college would sneeze at my entire net worth, but I still feel "too wealthy" and "owned" by possessions.

 

[YCGP]

My father-in-law came from a very aristocratic family (although they lost eveything when they were booted out of Constantinople by the Turks), yet he would literally give the shirt off his own back if he saw someone in need.
I guess our attitude needs to be one of seeing what we have as not being ours, but ultimately belonging to God, and we are simply stewards of that wealth.

As far as I can conclude, this is the right attitude to have and it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain the more wealth we accumulate.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I admit I'm interested in Orthodox perspectives on this. To me it always seems that the ideal is poverty - not squalor, but having nothing more than is strictly necessary.

My friends from college would sneeze at my entire net worth, but I still feel "too wealthy" and "owned" by possessions.

yes, the absolute ideal is what you said. the ideal in this sense would be like St Anthony and to give up all wealth. however, God can call people to use wealth throughout their lives to build up the Church and help their fellow man. check out the life of someone like St Davit the Restorer to see how someone can have mass wealth, and yet not be owned by it.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I listened to a priest who spoke once on the subject of money and salvation, and while I wish I could remember the whole thing, one point has really stayed with me because I recognize it as true, but never heard anyone else teach on it.

He definitely agreed that wealth and focusing on it could be a problem, but he also mentioned that poverty could be its own problem, in that many people react by focusing incessantly on what they don't have. Covetousness can become a way of life, along with a lack of thankfulness.

Of course having money can bring such problems as selfishness, trusting in wealth, obsessing over protecting it and/or amassing more of it, and other issues.

I really think it's not so much the exact bottom line of our finances or net worth that matters, but our attitude towards money and how we use it. Which there are more temptations when we have more of it, but having too little can be temptation to spiritual ills as well.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Ah, I can't find it (too much on money and salvation to Google it!) and I can't remember who said it but ...

I think it was one of the Saints who said something like "See, the beggar holding out his hand to the rich man offers him salvation" and maybe he added that we might not even see/realize it.


It has stuck with me, but I can't remember who said it or exactly how it goes. I thought it was an interesting way to think about money though.

 

[ArmyMatt]

yep, remember it's the love of money that's the root of evil, not the having of money.

 

[Hermit76]

I am a parent of 5 children. My approach to possessions and money are much different than if I were a single man. As a parent I cannot simply not live in a house without heat, etc. I cannot live like a tribal man in the Amazon. Our social constructs demand a minimum of provision for a family. I am responsible for those things. That being said, I live beyond what is necessary and I am finding that it is clouding my ability to follow Jesus.
Americanism has a tendency to force its religions to adapt to its values (or lack thereof). I fear that Orthodoxy will follow suit. Perhaps not. Perhaps it will remain the light in the darkness of consumerism.

One additional thought. My wife and I were talking about wealth the other day. We have seen people take on "voluntary poverty" to the point that they were now a burden on others. There must be balance of time and money that is controlled by wisdom instead of the passions. It is neither right to be hoarders of wealth nor a burden.

 

[truefiction1]

1 John 3:17

 

[Kristos]

Remember that one time Jesus said "Blessed are the rich..." me neither. But is that because riches are intrinsically bad? Seems that money/wealth can be viewed amoral, the sin comes from our desire for more and from hording. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God - not riches, or wealth, or worldly power. Interestingly, the poor are blessed, so it might be worthwhile to explore that notion.

 

[FenderTL5]

as the Apostle wrote, "I know what it is to have little, and I know what it is to have plenty."
However, I still struggle greatly with the contentment part.
In many ways, I prefer "little" to the current grind.
Lord have mercy on me, the sinner.