Civil Rights Law Protects L.G.B.T. Workers, Supreme Court Rules

[FireDragon76]

Wow! I believe anything today. The world is going crazy ( as Jesus said it would). Unfreakingbelievable.

I doubt Jesus would be bothered all that much by atheist clergy as much as he would be by his followers who more closely resemble the pharisees who put him to death.

 

[hedrick]

This is what I responded to, just to remind those reading (this site is frustrating in that you have to weed through threads to see to what an individual is responding).

The legal standard is "but for". That means that it's illegal to fire someone for something that would be fine if you changed their gender to the opposite. E.g. having a picture of a spouse of the opposite gender would not normally cause problems. Change your gender and it does. Headlines have simplified to do being gay, but that's not usually the actual issue. Few employers specifically ask employees their sexual orientation. It's really being gay and showing it in the sorts of ways that people ordinarily talk or act. To use the vernacular, the question is whether gays have to be in the closet. The Supreme Court says no. I agree.

The fact that a teacher was trying to make a point by having a picture of a spouse or talking about something they did together is not relevant, as long as what they actually did falls within the normal range of permitted behavior if you swap their gender.

That does not mean that they can talk about gay sex acts to elementary school students, of course, since that would be inappropriate even if you swap their gender.

 

[FireDragon76]

The legal standard is "but for". That means that it's illegal to fire someone for something that would be fine if you changed their gender to the opposite. E.g. having a picture of a spouse of the opposite gender would not normally cause problems. Change your gender and it does. Headlines have simplified to do being gay, but that's not usually the actual issue. Few employers specifically ask employees their sexual orientation. It's really being gay and showing it in the sorts of ways that people ordinarily talk or act.

A meaningless distinction between being and doing typical of the Evangelical mindset.

 

[Quartermaine]

This is what I responded to, just to remind those reading (this site is frustrating in that you have to weed through threads to see to what an individual is responding).

"Sparagmos said: ↑
Yes, in a bunch of states it was still legal to fire someone just for being gay."

I said it didn't happen much.

and i asked if you had actual stats on that or was it just wishful thinking.

When you dig into the stories, they were fired for violating some policy. No one cares what they are doing at home if they just keep their business to themselves.

I didn't find exact numbers, but I did find in one site that "between 15 and 43 percent of LGBT people have experienced discrimination or harassment in the workplace as a result of their sexual orientation"

So....one has to define "discrimination or harassment" to know what this percentage means and the percentage is pretty low. Most of us have experienced some "discrimination or harassment" on the job somewhere, sometime.

you've been fired because you are straight?

Cases in point: Teacher: I Was Fired for Being Gay. Now It Can't Happen to Anyone Else

Brett Bigham was fired for joining a softball league.

there was no policy violation.

the school board eventually apologized and reinstated him and in their apology admitted that he was fired just because he was gay

"On behalf of the MESD Board and administration, I acknowledge and apologize to those who were impacted by discriminatory actions, on the basis of sexual orientation, that occurred in the past and reaffirm the agency’s commitment to an ongoing practice of dismantling these harmful and inhumane actions.
We apologize to Mr. Brett Bigham. No one should have to endure the discriminatory actions that Mr. Bigham describes experiencing at MESD. They were wrong when they occurred, just as they would be wrong today."
Helen L. Ying Board Chair Multnomah ESD 6/16/20

5 People Who Were Fired for Being Gay, and the 29 States Where That is Still Legal

five examples of people fired or denied jobs because they are gay.

Coach asked to resign for announcing to the students her sexual orientation and that she and female partner were having a child. Not for "being gay", which one can presume she had been for long before this announcement.

How many straight teachers did this university fire for starting families?

Another transitioned from male to female and then sued on the basis of sex discrimination (a category that was covered) and won.

Good for her. However no one should ever face being fired and having to go through the courts to get their job back just because their boss is a bigot.

Another left his job on his own volition but then decided he wanted to come back and was not hired. So he sued.

Left because of discrimination and harassment. When that became illegal he applied for a job and was refused because he was gay.

Not spending the day looking these up, but it's always more than "fired because I was gay" when you start reading.

Yes millions of gays and lesbians have lost thier jobs just because they are who they are. Fortunately that sort of sick hate and discrimination are illegal now

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Stevil,
So in a private school of the Christian persuasion, I should be okay with a non-Christian, atheist or LGBTI person teaching religion, science, health?
No. Sorry.

Non religious people don't teach religion in Catholic or Christian school. They teach what they are supposed to teach. And that has nothing to do with church stuff. Health and science has nothing to do with religion.

 

[46AND2]

Wow! I believe anything today. The world is going crazy ( as Jesus said it would). Unfreakingbelievable.

What is a pastor who has lost his faith to do? He has spent countless years in college and seminary, started a family, bought a house. All he knows how to do is preach. I also highly suspect that that website, which I have not looked at yet, has a lot of information for these people on what they CAN do; resources to help them transition OUT of the church; advice on how to "come out of the closet" to their congregation. Heck, how to come out to their family!

I think you have the wrong idea about this. We aren't saying that there are atheists who purposely choose to go become a pastor. I can't say that never happens, but I'm sure it is exceedingly rare. These are people who started out as believers, and lost their faith along the way, during their pastoral employment. And that involves a lot of fear. Fear of losing friends, fear of losing family, fear of being unable to provide for their family. The ones who remain in their position don't WANT to be deceptive, they are just afraid not to be, and worse, they don't believe anymore that there is a god to help them through that fear.

 

[Ken-1122]

What is wrong with a gay Christian teaching science in a Christian school?
What does the teacher's orientation have to do with their ability to teach the science curriculum?
Why do the student's even need to know the teacher's sexual orientation or preferences?

BTW, I have no idea whether my science teacher at school was gay or straight.

If Christian teachings say Homosexuality is a sin, history tells us a homosexual teacher is eventually probably going to refuse to teach homosexuality is a sin. However a teacher who is doing another type of sin like adultery, or fornication, will usually keep that behavior to himself and hypocritical teach it as a sin. Christian schools would rather have a hypocrite who remains true to bible scripture than an honest sinner who goes against bible scripture.

 

[Emsmom1]

Christian schools are private schools. I don't know of any in the US that receive any public funding. Parents pay tuition.

Religious, private schools see victory in recent Supreme Court decision

 

[Arc F1]

Civil Rights Law Protects L.G.B.T. Workers, Supreme Court Rules

I don't see it as a win. It's just a law that makes us accept behavior that some of us don't approve of.

 

[Speedwell]

I don't see it as a win. It's just a law that makes us accept behavior that some of us don't approve of.

Oh, you poor thing.

 

[Arc F1]

Oh, you poor thing.

Maybe we need a law that makes you approve of me.

 

[Desk trauma]

Maybe we need a law that makes you approve of me.

The law does not require anyone approve of anyone else it only prohibits them from being fired based on an attribute. Just like no one has to approve of others religious views but its illegal to fire them for those views.

But of course religion, especially Christianity, is different because reasons.

 

[Arc F1]

The law does not require anyone approve of anyone else it only prohibits them from being fired based on an attribute. Just like no one has to approve of others religious views but its illegal to fire them for those views.

How would you know someone's sexual preferences unless they were bragging about it at work? I've fired straight guys for obnoxious comments about women and there's nothing they can do. This law would have prohibited me from doing the same to homosexuals.

 

[Desk trauma]

How would you know someone's sexual preferences unless they were bragging about it at work?

They mention their partner or spouse in a non-bragging way. They fill out paperwork for their emergency contact and under relationship list partner or spouse. People are having a conversation and for whatever reason the subject comes up. Their spouse or partner picks them up in view of coworkers and their conduct is clearly that of lovers.

Shall I go on?

I also note you have abandoned the approval angle very quickly.

 

[Arc F1]

They mention their partner or spouse in a non-bragging way. They fill out paperwork for their emergency contact and under relationship list partner or spouse. People are having a conversation and for whatever reason the subject comes up. Their spouse or partner picks them up in view of coworkers and their conduct is clearly that of lovers.

Shall I go on?

I also note you have abandoned the approval angle very quickly.

I don't approve. It makes me sick to see two men together. Yes I've had to tolerate it with my employees but I still have the right to not like it.

I was born this way. We have an attraction to the opposite sex so as to continue the human race. That has been the purpose since the beginning of time. Those that aren't born that way have to deal with that burden and trust in the lord and follow the word of God.

 

[Desk trauma]

I don't approve.

You don't have to, you just don't get to fire people based on it anymore.

It makes me sick to see two men together. Yes I've had to tolerate it with my employees but I still have the right to not like it.

Yes you do, what's your point?

I was born this way. We have an attraction to the opposite sex so as to continue the human race. That has been the purpose since the beginning of time. Those that aren't born that way have to deal with that burden and trust in the lord and follow the word of God.

No, they are free to make up their own minds about religion just like the rest of us.

 

[Skewpoint]

I don't approve. It makes me sick to see two men together. Yes I've had to tolerate it with my employees but I still have the right to not like it.

I was born this way. We have an attraction to the opposite sex so as to continue the human race. That has been the purpose since the beginning of time. Those that aren't born that way have to deal with that burden and trust in the lord and follow the word of God.

No, they don't. You and your lot pushing the idea that it's a "burden" is exactly what's wrong in the first place. That's what makes ME sick.

 

[hedrick]

I don't approve. It makes me sick to see two men together. Yes I've had to tolerate it with my employees but I still have the right to not like it.

I was born this way. We have an attraction to the opposite sex so as to continue the human race. That has been the purpose since the beginning of time. Those that aren't born that way have to deal with that burden and trust in the lord and follow the word of God.

It helps conservative Christians because it helps you maintain the claim that you don't hate gays. It's one thing for religious schools. They should be able to maintain their own standards. But to want secular institutions and companies to fire gays is reasonably construed as hate.

 

[Arc F1]

It helps conservative Christians because it helps you maintain the claim that you don't hate gays. It's one thing for religious schools. They should be able to maintain their own standards. But to want secular institutions and companies to fire gays is reasonably construed as hate.

For me hate is a pretty strong statement. I always get that while giving my opinion yet when I'm around family members that are gay I treat them with respect. I don't stop to help someone and then refuse because they are gay and even as much as I didn't approve at work I probably cut them more slack than the others. For me to hate someone it would take more than just being homosexual.

I do however hold strong to my faith and believe it is wrong.

 

[Arc F1]

No, they don't. You and your lot pushing the idea that it's a "burden" is exactly what's wrong in the first place. That's what makes ME sick.

You will see that in Christian forums