Civil Rights attorney blast Democratic Party

[Mountainmanbob]

Civil rights attorney blasts Democratic Party: 'They believe every Black man has to vote for them'

Civil rights attorney Leo Terrell said on "Hannity" Tuesday that one of the reasons he plans on voting for President Trump in November is "the Democratic Party honestly believes that every Black man has to vote for them, [and that] they own us."

Terrell later gave one reason Trump might gain support among Black voters: "The Democrats will not allow Black kids school choice vouchers.

"It's outrageous," he added. "It's the number one civil rights issue: school choice and vouchers and we've got to change that."

Terrell was reacting to comments from former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who said earlier Tuesday that America must get "to the place where when you see somebody who is Black you don't have preconceived notions of ... who they are, and what they think, which is, I think, a problem of the left."

 

[hislegacy]

So does Mr Biden.

“You ain’t black” comment alludes to this.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Civil rights attorney blasts Democratic Party: 'They believe every Black man has to vote for them'

Civil rights attorney Leo Terrell said on "Hannity" Tuesday that one of the reasons he plans on voting for President Trump in November is "the Democratic Party honestly believes that every Black man has to vote for them, [and that] they own us."

It appears that he prefers the party that would prefer every black man not be allowed to vote at all.

Terrell was reacting to comments from former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who said earlier Tuesday that America must get "to the place where when you see somebody who is Black you don't have preconceived notions of ... who they are, and what they think, which is, I think, a problem of the left."

Interesting direction to target that comment given that the right, including the president, has been guilty for some time of painting non-white liberals as unAmerican.

 

[Radagast]

It appears that he prefers the party that would prefer every black man not be allowed to vote at all.

Oh, and which party would that be?

Surely you're not resorting to falsehoods to help your party win?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Oh, and which party would that be?

Republicans.

Surely you're not resorting to falsehoods to help your party win?

Nope. Over the last several years, Republicans have engaged in a number of campaigns to disenfranchise minorities and other voting blocs that tend to go Democrat.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Oh, and which party would that be?
Surely you're not resorting to falsehoods to help your party win?

That's just the way they roll.
Backwards.
M

 

[Radagast]

Over the last several years, Republicans have engaged in a number of campaigns to disenfranchise minorities and other voting blocs that tend to go Democrat.

Well, no, they really haven't.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Well, no, they really haven't.

Courts in Alabama, North Carolina, and Virginia disagree with you.

GOP Racial Gerrymandering Mastermind Participated in Redistricting in More States Than Previously Known, Files Reveal
A North Carolina court just threw out Republicans’ gerrymandered state legislature map

Republicans also tried to use Hofeller's work to modify the census in a way that would target Hispanics for under-representation.

It's been predominantly Republicans who've stood against the restoration of voting rights to felons (who are disproportionately non-white). It's overwhelmingly been Republicans who've sought to impose new voter ID restrictions that would disproportionately impact the poor and minorities. And it's overwhelmingly been Republicans who've fought measures to expand and strengthen mail-in voting capabilities in the middle of a pandemic that disproportionately impacts service-sector workers who, again, tend to be poor and non-white.

 

[Radagast]

It's been predominantly Republicans who've stood against the restoration of voting rights to felons (who are disproportionately non-white).

There are arguments for and against felons voting. Those arguments do not relate to the race of the felons. No sane person could call failure to give voting rights to felons "disenfranchising minorities."

It's overwhelmingly been Republicans who've sought to impose new voter ID restrictions

It is true that Republicans want to stop people voting if they're not legally entitled to vote. But that's not "disenfranchising," because people who are not legally entitled to vote do not have the franchise.

And it's overwhelmingly been Republicans who've fought measures to expand and strengthen mail-in voting capabilities

If people see mail-in voting as a potential source of fraud, they probably have reasons for doing so. Current US mail-in voting processes do indeed have some deficiencies.

 

[iluvatar5150]

There are arguments for and against felons voting. Those arguments do not relate to the race of the felons. No sane person could call failure to give voting rights to felons "disenfranchising minorities."

When felons are disproportionately non-white, that is a perfectly sane conclusion.

It is true that Republicans want to stop people voting if they're not legally entitled to vote. But that's not "disenfranchising," because people who are not legally entitled to vote do not have the franchise.

If their concern was only about preventing voting by people who aren't entitled to vote, they would've gone about things differently. They would've targeted voting systems that were more likely to be abused and they would've sought ways to help people get the documentation to which they were entitled. But, in most cases, they didn't.

Mail-in voting has, historically, been more open to abuse than in-person voting. However, outside of jurisdictions where most voting is done by mail, it's also been used more by older voters and folks in the military, who tend to lean Republican. Did Republicans try to clean up mail-in voting first? No, they went after in-person voting fraud, which is extraordinarily rare. In most cases, what Republicans did was make it more difficult for people who are qualified/allowed to prove their qualifications. They typically instituted these stricter requirements without simultaneously improving or ensuring access to the government services required to get that documentation. And when asked for evidence that the problem they were trying to combat was actually a problem, they were repeatedly unable. The whole thing has been nakedly disingenuous and, frankly, rather insulting to anybody with half a brain who's been paying attention.

If people see mail-in voting as a potential source of fraud, they probably have reasons for doing so. Current US mail-in voting processes do indeed have some deficiencies.

Sure they do, yet when the Democratic House pushed in the first COVID relief bill to for measures to strengthen those processes (because they knew that more mail-in voting would be needed), Republicans complained. More recently, Trump has installed a Postmaster General who seems set on paring down the USPS' capabilities and responsiveness right as their services are needed most.

 

[Radagast]

When felons are disproportionately non-white, that is a perfectly sane conclusion.

Not really.

First, isn't it racist to suggest that being non-white is a defining characteristic of felons?

Second, you can't "disenfranchise" a group of people that doesn't have the right to vote.

And third, arguments against felons voting are not nullified by pointing at race.

If their concern was only about preventing voting by people who aren't entitled to vote, they would've gone about things differently.

From where I'm standing, that's exactly what they did.

they went after in-person voting fraud, which is extraordinarily rare

The academic literature has a variety of different estimates for how common it is, but it is not "extraordinarily rare." Particularly among illegal aliens, voter fraud is potentially quite high.

And it's a well-known fact that the dead always vote Democrat. Have done for decades.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Not really.

First, isn't it racist to suggest that being non-white is a defining characteristic of felons?

If you phrase it like that, sure. But I didn't phrase it like that, did I? Is your reading comprehension really that poor or are you being disingenuous?

And second, you can't "disenfranchise" a group of people that doesn't have the right to vote.

Disenfranchisement includes the revocation of the right to vote. Most states disenfranchise felons.

From where I'm standing, that's exactly what they did.

You should try standing somewhere else that affords a better view.

The academic literature has a variety of different estimates for how common it is, but it is not "extraordinarily rare."

What is the range of those estimates?

Particularly among illegal aliens, voter fraud is potentially quite high.

How high and according to whom?

 

[Radagast]

If you phrase it like that, sure. But I didn't phrase it like that, did I?

Yes, you did. And you can't seem to acknowledge that arguments against felons voting are based on criminal record, not on race.

Disenfranchisement includes the revocation of the right to vote. Most states disenfranchise felons.

Failure to undo the revocation is not disenfranchising them.

It might be non-reenfranchising them, if that's a word.

What is the range of those estimates?

Very wide. Nobody really knows exactly how much voter fraud there is in the USA. Of course, many people would prefer not to know.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Yes, you did.

No, I didn't.

I said, "felons are disproportionately non-white".
You said, "being non-white is a defining characteristic of felons"

Do you not see the difference there?

And you can't seem to acknowledge that arguments against felons voting are based on criminal record, not on race.

I'll ask again, is this poor reading comprehension on your part or disingenuousness?

Failure to undo the revocation is not disenfranchising them.

It might be non-reenfranchising them, if that's a word.

They're disenfranchised upon their conviction.

Very wide. Nobody really knows exactly how much voter fraud there is in the USA. Of course, many people would prefer not to know.

And yet, Republicans have been consistently unable to show anything outside of a handful of very small-scale (often individual) cases.

Ashcroft tried and came up with mostly nothing:
Why Republicans Can’t Find the Big Voter Fraud Conspiracy

Trump and Kobach tried and came up with nothing:
Report: Trump commission did not find widespread voter fraud

That wasn't the first time Kobach failed to make his case:
How the Case for Voter Fraud Was Tested — and Utterly Failed — ProPublica

The sort of rampant voter fraud Republicans fear is a fantasy.

 

[Radagast]

No, I didn't.

I said, "felons are disproportionately non-white".
You said, "being non-white is a defining characteristic of felons"

Do you not see the difference there?

You're arguing that "being disproportionately non-white" is the defining characteristic of felons, by denying that there could be any other basis for denying felons the vote.

They're disenfranchised upon their conviction.

In both red and blue states.

And yet, Republicans have been consistently unable to show anything outside of a handful of very small-scale (often individual) cases.

Exactly. Because mechanisms for detecting fraud are not put in place in states where fraud is likely to be high.

It's likely to be in the 100,000 to several million range, according to academic studies.

 

[Sistrin]

..."the Democratic Party honestly believes that every Black man has to vote for them, [and that] they own us."

Which is what the Democrat Party has always believed, and as Biden made clear, still believes.

 

[iluvatar5150]

You're arguing that "being disproportionately non-white" is the defining characteristic of felons, by denying that there could be any other basis for denying felons the vote.

I don't think you know what the phrase "defining characteristic" means.

In both red and blue states.

Yes. And, generally speaking, how do the political affiliations tend to run among the folks pushing for and
against the restoration of voting rights for felons?

Exactly. Because mechanisms for detecting fraud are not put in place in states where fraud is likely to be high.

Well that's an odd excuse. You can't detect it, and multiple investigations launched by some of the most powerful investigative bodies in the country have failed to turn up anything, but it's gotta be there.

It's likely to be in the 100,000 to several million range

There are about 153 million registered voters in the country with 137 million votes cast in the 2016 presidential election. "Several million" fraudulent votes would be well into the single-digit percentage range in a large election. Kansas has the smallest average precinct size in the country, with 437 voters per precinct. "Several million" fraudulent votes or a couple percent would mean an average of a dozen fraudulent votes or more in every single precinct across the country.

How incompetent are Republican investigators if they can't find a problem that widespread?

according to academic studies.

What academic studies?

 

[Sistrin]

It appears that he prefers the party that would prefer every black man not be allowed to vote at all.

This is disingenuous nonsense. But then I understand your understanding of history has been severely corrupted.

 

[iluvatar5150]

This is disingenuous nonsense. But then I understand your understanding of history has been severely corrupted.

I've written several posts subsequent to that outlining recent attempts by Republicans to disenfranchise minorities. Do you have any counters to those or is your post just another case of blind denialism?

 

[iluvatar5150]

I await the coming Republican cries over election fraud:
https://nypost.com/2020/08/08/kanye-west-booted-off-illinois-ballot-for-invalid-signatures/
Bar Complaint Claims Kanye West’s Campaign Lawyer is Violating the Rules by Simultaneously Working For Trump