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Featured Futurist Only City, Sanctuary, & Covenant

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by tranquil, May 22, 2019.

  1. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    Summary on the structure of Revelation.

    Probably one of the biggest stumbling blocks to understanding the book of Revelation is the idea of the ‘70th week of Daniel’. Supposedly, in the middle of this ‘70th week’/ specific set of 7 years, the ‘antichrist’ breaks some covenant (which proponents have no idea what this even entails – treaties are made every day, so what’s so special about it?) and then the abomination idol is placed in the temple, and the ‘great tribulation’ starts. It’s all so neat and tidy with a bow on top, so what’s the problem?

    Well, for one, that’s not how Jesus Christ describes it in the Olivet discourse (which I will show you exactly how it fits into Revelation) where He even says that it would deceive the elect if that were possible (Matthew 24:24). How does the typical understanding integrate or explain this?

    And secondly, that’s not how Revelation describes it either.

    The key to getting past this stumbling block is to understand that there are at least 2 abomination idols discussed in the narrative – because there are 2 different men involved here – for lack of better terms: the ‘prince to come’ & the ‘desolator’ (plus the ‘desolator’s desolator). And it is the 'desolator' that forms the bulk of the actions in Revelation: the desolator destroys 1/3 of Mystery Babylon (the City in Trumpets 1-4), 5 months later he takes over the Sanctuary (6th Trumpet), then in the middle of 7 years he makes a 7 year covenant that is broken 1260 days later (the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses). Then his false prophet enforces idol worship, triggering the 7 Bowls of wrath.

    Dan 9:26 Daniel 9:26 Interlinear: And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end is with a flood, and till the end is war, determined are desolations.
    And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come

    1) shall ‘corrupt’/ ‘destroy’ the city

    2) and the sanctuary.

    3) Its/ His end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.​

    27 He will
    4) make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering.
    And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

    Boiling it down to this:
    Starting at the 70th anniversary of Jerusalem desolations (dusk April 19, 2018/ 5 Iyyar, 5778) (Daniel 9:2)
    Go forward 70 weeks & a holy place is anointed & there is a call to rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:24)
    Go forward 7 weeks until an anointed one (Daniel 9:25)
    Go forward 62 weeks until an anointed one (Daniel 9:25)
    At the end of the 62 weeks (Dec 17, 2020) (Daniel 9:26):
    • an anointed one will be ‘cut off’
    • the ‘prince to come’ will corrupt the city & sanctuary (via breaking the covenant when that occurs)
    • the ‘prince to come’ makes the covenant for 1 week
    The ‘prince to come’ breaks the covenant in the middle of the week (Dec 21, 2020) (this starts a countdown of 1290/ 1335 days) (this is the 6th Seal & the start of the Day of the Lord’s wrath)

    The ‘Desolator” is the cause of ‘Its/ his end’ when the ‘flood’ arrives 45 days later** (the desolator has to work within the time allotted to it from the starting point of the abomination idol that the prince to come placed):
    • the ‘desolator’ is a false christ that ‘kills’ the ‘prince to come’ and his locusts stop the sacrifices that are polluted with the ‘prince to come’s abomination idol (Joel 1:4-9) / (imitating Jesus destroying the ‘antichrist’ ) [Trumpets 1-4 & and start of the 5th Trumpet]
    • the ‘desolator’ is the next 'prince to come'/ a false christ that corrupts/ destroys 1/3 of the city of Jerusalem, with its sanctuary (imitating Jesus taking over Jerusalem and splitting Mystery Babylon into 3 parts a la Revelation 16:19)

    • the ‘desolator’ is a false christ that takes over his sanctuary after 5 months (imitating Jesus taking over His sanctuary in Psalm 68:17 with His 5 month long ‘flood’/ ‘days of Noah’.) [6th Trumpet]

    • then the ‘desolator’ makes the 7 year covenant & breaks it in the middle of 7 years. The man of sin makes a ‘new covenant’ (imitating Jesus making the new covenant) triggering the 2 witnesses 1260 days from 24 Kislev, 5782 (the temple foundation is laid on 24 Kislev in Haggai 2:18) through 13 Iyyar, 5785. 3.5 days later (Revelation 11:9-11) takes us to the start of the 7th Trumpet/ kingdom of heaven & the ‘days of Noah’s flood’ of 17 Iyyar, 5785 (17 Iyyar being the starting date for Noah’s flood in Genesis 7:11-24).
    The 'flood' here refers to 'the people of the prince to come' who will destroy/ take over the city & sanctuary (compare with Daniel 11:10 which calls an army a ‘flood’). This flood is synonymous with the locusts of the 5th Trumpet which is 5 months long. Why? Because the flood of Noah was 5 months long (Genesis 7:11 & Genesis 7:24) (Iyar 17 through Tishri 17)

    The next prince to come/ the desolator’s 5 month flood at the 5th Trumpet (Revelation 9:5) is imitating the ‘days of Noah’ flood that ushers in the kingdom of heaven (at the end of which the ‘Lord is in the sanctuary’/ man of sin is in the ‘sanctuary’) (albeit on different calendar days).

    When the desolator stops the sacrifices at the beginning of the flood with the locusts (Joel 1:4-9), this gives the desolator an aura of holiness. Is this not what God would have wanted to be done?

    5 months later, the desolator corrupts/ destroys the sanctuary = 6th Trumpet/ Revelation 9

    13 The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the four horns of the golden altar that is before God. 14 It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” 15 And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand. I heard their number.

    17 The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur.​

    That '200 million man army' is an explicit reference to Psalm 68:17 The chariots of God are tens of thousands—thousands of thousands are they; the Lord is in His sanctuary as He was at Sinai.

    The flood that ushers in the kingdom of God (Matthew 24:37-39) at the 7th Trumpet is Iyar 17 through Tishri 17. (subtract 1264 days of the 2 witnesses to get Kislev 24, the day that Zerubabbel & Joshua lay the foundation for the temple (Haggai 2:18)

    The man of sin's flood in the 5th Trumpet 5 months is imitating the ushering in of the kingdom of God, taking over the city then the sanctuary. After the city & sanctuary have been taken with his 5 month 'flood', then the desolator/ (the next prince to come) makes the covenant at the 6th Trumpet/ 2nd woe (Daniel 9:27).

    The 7 bowls of wrath occur because that covenant is broken after 1260 days: see Leviticus 28:18
    And if in spite of this you will not listen to me, then I will discipline you again sevenfold for your sins,

    The 7 Trumpets are punishment for the abomination worship at the start of the 6th Seal (Matthew 24:15-21), and also the worship of the false christ who ‘kills’ the prince that committed the abomination of desolation at start of the Day of the Lord’s wrath [Trumpets 1-4 & 5]. The false prophet of Revelation 13 & his abomination at the start of the 7th Trumpet triggers the 7 bowls of wrath punishments.

    Again, 2 different floods: one ushers in the man of sin’s kingdom at the 5th Trumpet & the other at the 7th Trumpet ushers in the kingdom of heaven.
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  2. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    Terms to define please..

    Once I know what sanctuary, which city, and what covenant... it would help.
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    tranquil, you are trying to fit the destruction of the temple and city in Daniel 9:26 with the seals in Revelation 6.

    However, the only thing in Daniel 9:26 to also be in Revelation is the person called the prince who shall come.

    The destruction of the temple and city, and the end as a flood, and the abominations associated in Daniel 9:26 - are all 70 ad related events.

    Followed by a 2000 year period, the time of the gentiles controlling Jerusalem; it is not until Daniel 9:27 that end times come into effect - our day and age. The prince who shall come is near future.

    It will be the Mt. Sinai covenant that he will confirm for the 7 years as required by Moses as the Jews will believe that he is their messiah for a while.

    The confirmation will be a big speech from the temple mount, that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs forever.

    We don't have dates yet.

    Segregate Daniel 9:26 as past. And Daniel 9:27 as near future, end times. No dates yet, but soon.
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  4. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

    no offense your linking together of these scriptures is an interesting presentation but in many aspects is a private interpretation. The abomination of desolation happens in the middle of the week. Rev 13 shows the beast survives a mortal wound and then has power over all the earth for 42 months. At the and of the time the same beast is thrown into the lake of fire. Read Dan 7 and the pompous one he is persecuting the saints and prevailing when the kingdom comes and note his body is also given to the flame. Thess says the man of sin the son of perdition is going to exalt himself above all that is God in the temple and he too will be destroyed by the brightness of the coming of the LORD. There is no 2nd beast that kills the 1st one. The stoppage of the sacriifice in the middle of the week by the prince who shall come matches the 42 months the beast has in Rev 13. In all these passages this same one is on the scene when the LORD comes in glory.
  5. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    That's the whole point of this thread, Daniel 9:26 is not past.

    Is this past?

    Matt 24:15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. ...] 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.

    That is Jerusalem. That is the 'city'.

    The 'burning mountain' of the 2nd Trumpet is an explicit reference to the fall of Mystery Babylon. Revelation 8:8 = Jeremiah 51:25 Mystery Babylon is the 'great city'.

    Is this past?

    Matt 24:36“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. 37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.​

    The 'days of Noah' is the flood at the end of the 2nd woe that ushers in the kingdom of heaven on earth. The 5th Trumpet's 5 months is a reference to this. The 'days of Noah' lasted 5 months of flood.

    Genesis 7:24 And the waters prevailed on the earth 150 days.

    Revelation 9:10They have tails and stings like scorpions, and their power to hurt people for five months is in their tails. 11They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.

    Has the sanctuary been taken over by the 'antichrist'?

    Why does the 6th Trumpet make an explicit reference to the Lord being in his sanctuary (Psalm 68:17)?

    Putting it another way: this is describing the Daniel 8:12 'because of transgression, a host was given over to the little horn'. Daniel 8:12 And on account of rebellion, the host and the daily sacrifice were given over to the horn, and it flung truth to the ground and prospered in whatever it did.

    The 'transgression' is the abomination idol' & is the 'rebellion' that leads to the man of sin being revealed. First, the 'prince to come' performs the abomination in the Jewish sanctuary. Then the 'desolator', the Daniel 8 little horn kicks off the trumpets by 'killing' the 'prince to come'.
  6. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    Very little of this is my private interpretation, I am just literally reading through Daniel 9. Unless you mean I am privately interpreting the Bible. Which I am, but as of yet, I am unable to get around this problem as I am merely a human. ^_^

    On a timeline, it is just 70 weeks, 7 weeks, 62 weeks, 3.5 days, 1335 days, 70 weeks. That's the whole tribulation.

    And the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd abominations do occur in the 'middle of the week'. It's just that 'week' has multiple meanings. The 'real' meaning of 'week' is what is your own private interpretation.

    The 1st is a particular week: the week that occurs 70 weeks, 7 weeks, 62 weeks after the 70th anniversary of Jerusalem desolations.

    The 2nd is the 'middle of the 7 years'. The 70th through 77th anniversary of Jerusalem desolations. Which happens to land on Halloween, 2021. Coincidence? (images of the beast) (for example, if I told you that Wednesday was the 'middle of the week', and on Friday I told you I'd take you out to lunch in the middle of the week, would you expect me 3.5 days after Friday or would you expect me on Wednesday?)

    The 3rd is the middle of the 7 covenant years, the typical understanding of the 'covenant' that is made. But like Doug says, this covenant is made by the messiah figure. The messiah figure makes the covenant & breaks it after 1260 days. (the typical 70th week understanding)
  7. ThatCanadianDude_88

    ThatCanadianDude_88 New Member

    I've been here myself, it's important to realize that the original Hebrew text is what makes this part of Daniel very difficult to understand. You can easily get lost if you focus too much on the English counterparts without aiming to understand what the original text means to convey. I do think that the King James is what gets closest to the original meaning, even then it's not perfectly clear.

    Based on my present understanding, there is no "desolator". The introduction of an additional character aside from Messiah the Prince and the "prince who is to come" is due to a particular reading of certain translations.

    We need to take the whole of Daniel's description of this character if we are to form a clear picture, every passage needs to be balanced against the others, also taking special care to be attentive to what Revelations presents us.

    There is one "coming prince" and one "abomination of desolation" which is what hails judgment on the earth. Though note that the primary agent involved in bringing this prophecy to fruition is not the anti-christ himself but the false christ (false prophet), and we know that it is the "people" or "armies" of the coming prince who place it / set it up, those who surround and "desolate" Jerusalem.

    Note that the abomination of desolation is not in view in Daniel 9, however (see chapters 11 & 12). If you match Daniel 9 with Daniel 8, it becomes clear that it is the prince who is to come / little horn who is causing the desolation.

    Certain translations use this phrase, "wing of abominations". I do not think this captures the essence of what the author is conveying. I believe Daniel was attempting to relay a vision that by its nature is both unique and unprecedented. Here is the Hebrew word from where we get "wing", Strong's 3671.

    Strong's Concordance
    kanaph: wing, extremity
    Original Word: כָּנָף
    Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
    Transliteration: kanaph
    Phonetic Spelling: (kaw-nawf')
    Definition: wing, extremity
    NAS Exhaustive Concordance
    Word Origin
    from an unused word
    wing, extremity
    NASB Translation
    bird* (1), corner (1), corners (4), covering (1), each other (1), edge (5), edges (1), ends (3), fold (2), garment (1), kind (3), skirt (3), skirts (1), sorts (1), wing (14), winged (5), wings (58), wings were each other (1), wingspan (1).

    I do not think it is meant to be literal. The emphasis seems to be on "span" or "spread". Basically, it means that the anti-christ is going to sin unlike any other man in history and that these sins, the "abominations" that accompany him will engulf the entire planet and cause unfathomable spiritual devastation worldwide.

    The 7 year covenant is a given, it's fairly plain from the text. We already know from Revelations that the anti-christ will have a special relationship with the governors or "heads" of that final world kingdom (Revelations 17:13). Couple this with the following passage from Daniel 11 and the puzzle will start to form. The anti-christ initially comes in peaceably, forming a "league" and seizes power by intrigue - acting deceitfully after he comes into power. This is why he ends up subduing three of the 10 who are responsible for giving him his platform (Daniel 7:24), though I think there is a significant event at the heart of this turning point, a satanic deception of sorts resulting from a mock resurrection (Revelations 13:3 & 12). In the same way that the resurrection was the capstone of all the signs performed by the Lord Jesus, this sign is what is going to inaugurate the "anti-christ" movement, it's what will cause the world to "marvel after him".

    Daniel 11:20-24 New King James Version (NKJV)
    20 “There shall arise in his place one who imposes taxes on the glorious kingdom; but within a few days he shall be destroyed, but not in anger or in battle. 21 And in his place shall arise a vile person, to whom they will not give the honor of royalty; but he shall come in peaceably, and seize the kingdom by intrigue. 22 With the force of a flood they shall be swept away from before him and be broken, and also the prince of the covenant. 23 And after the league is made with him he shall act deceitfully, for he shall come up and become strong with a small number of people. 24 He shall enter peaceably, even into the richest places of the province; and he shall do what his fathers have not done, nor his forefathers: he shall disperse among them the plunder, spoil, and riches; and he shall devise his plans against the strongholds, but only for a time.

    Discerning what is going on in the world today at the present also helps complete the picture.
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  8. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    But we know that there is indeed a 'desolator' even within the traditional understanding of 'Daniel's 70th week' : it's the false prophet who enforces worship of an idol. (spiritual corruption/ destruction)

    Because there are so many (deliberately) ambiguous meanings within Daniel 9 especially, I think we have to look at how other prophets interpret it to get to the meaning.

    For instance: Jesus is a 'prince to come' who will desolate the city & sanctuary (we see that in Rev 14 and stopping the idol worship) and Jesus' 'flood' of Matthew 24:37-39 will get rid of the beast from the sea & earth (after the wicked have been tempted into the mark/ put another way, the tares are bundled [via the mark] and the wheat is gathered to the barn). So Jesus is a 'desolator' also.

    Daniel 11:20-24 New King James Version (NKJV)
    20 “There shall arise in his place one who imposes taxes on the glorious kingdom; but within a few days he shall be destroyed, but not in anger or in battle. 21 And in his place shall arise a vile person, to whom they will not give the honor of royalty; but he shall come in peaceably, and seize the kingdom by intrigue. 22 With the force of a flood they shall be swept away from before him and be broken, and also the prince of the covenant.

    Who is the 'prince of the covenant' here in verse 22?

    The 'prince of the covenant' appears to be the 'prince to come'...

    As I see it, that 'prince to come' is the one commiting the abomination that is kicking everything off in Matthew 24
    15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [...]
    20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

    23Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.​

    same idea in Daniel 8:12
    And on account of rebellion, the host and the daily sacrifice were given over to the horn, and it flung truth to the ground and prospered in whatever it did.

    Daniel 8:12 Interlinear: And the host is given up, with the continual sacrifice, through transgression, and it throweth down truth to the earth, and it hath worked, and prospered.
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    tranquil, imo, you probably should have made it clear that you are interpreting Daniel 9 - as none of the weeks are in the past, at the very beginning of your opening post.

    So people could understand why you are giving current dates.

    If I understand your post correctly, you are taking the heptads (weeks) segments as literal 7 day weeks, to formulate those dates.

    But what is puzzling me is why you treat the last week differently as 7 years?

    Here's your breakdown (as I understand it) ...

    You start on April 19, 2018
    Then 70 weeks (literal weeks) - August 21, 2019
    Then 7 weeks (literal weeks) - October 9, 2019
    Then 62 weeks (literal weeks), to Dec 17, 2020, some anointed one comes - who?

    ...I get lost at this point....

    Then someone confirms the covenant for seven years - which you apparently say is who? Why do you use seven years? Why are you not using one literal week of 7 days like your other calculations?

    No, it is not past. But it is not Daniel 9:26, either.
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  10. ThatCanadianDude_88

    ThatCanadianDude_88 New Member

    Interesting post, thanks for the share, some insight to consider.

    It would be fitting that the false prophet would be in view, as the 70 week prophecy pertains to Israel and the Holy City.
  11. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    Maybe this is the most difficult concept to get across... you understand it only as '7 years'.

    I understand it as being both: a week & years.

    It is not either/ or. Preterists want to say it is all past. Traditional futurists only want 1 verse out of the whole chapter of Daniel 9. Why is it always either/ or? It's promoted that way because it's wrong.

    It is 70 weeks. It is 7 years from the 70th to the 77th anniversary. It is 7 covenant years. (And the 7 covenant years begins in the middle of the 70th to 77th anniversary years.)

    It's all 3. Not just 1 like you understand it.

    All 3 create the framework of Revelation - not just the '7 covenant years' model.

    I tried to focus on the 'city, sanctuary & flood' of Daniel 9:26b as that seemed a simpler approach.

    As to the dates and speculation as to what it means:
    it is dusk April 19, 2018 which is 5 Iyyar, 5778 which is 70 Hebrew years (not the solar year date) of the desolations of Jerusalem, which is referenced in Daniel 9:2.
    the end of 70 weeks is dusk Aug 22, 2019. Just read what Daniel 9:24 says and that is what will happen on that date. I'm not sure why people can't see that this Kushner/ New Palestine treaty clearly has something to do with this upcoming date. Maybe people will finally see it in these terms when the time comes.
    7 more weeks (dusk Oct 10, 2019) then an anointed one comes. Sorry, I don't know what this means. That doesn't mean it's wrong.
    62 more weeks (dusk Dec 17, 2020) then an anointed one is 'cut off'. Since Prince William will be 38.5 years old (the middle of '77' years) on Dec 21, 2020, I'm pretty sure that the 'prince to come' is Prince William. The 'prince to come' (probably Prince William) makes the 7 day covenant (related to Christmas Day perhaps).
    After 3.5 days, on Dec 21, 2020, Prince William puts an idol (probably a statue of his mother, Princess Diana) in the holy place that was anointed on Aug 22, 2019. This is the abomination of desolation referenced in Matthew 24:15-21. Start 1290 days/ 1335 days.
    Something like the Gog war occurs. Maybe it is triggered by Muslims not appreciating an idol in the holy place (on the temple mount?)
    After 45 days (Dusk Feb 4, 2021), the Daniel 8 little horn has apparently defeated Gog. Because the Dan 8 little horn's prototype is the King of the North, the Dan 8 little horn is probably the leader of the United Nations (the UN flag is oriented from the North looking down on the whole world). So, the UN leader has saved Jerusalem & Israel and sets up shop in 1/3 of Jerusalem. Israel hails the hero of the Gog war as its messiah, who stops the sacrifices that have been going on since Dec 17, 2020 'for everyone's safety'. Prince William has seemingly been killed. Possibly a US east coast mega-tsunami from Cumbre Vieja Cumbre Vieja - Wikipedia Possibly a Yellowstone eruption.
    5 months later (Dusk July 4, 2021 breaking the 'covenant'/ Declaration of Independence in the middle of 70 '7' years/ middle of 490 years = July 4, 1776 + 245 years = July 4, 2021), the UN has taken over for the US govt, wherein the US has been divided in a civil war between the pro-UN faction (probably modern US Democrats) & the pro-Israel/ nationalist faction (probably modern US Republicans). Or put differently, the US is divided between a faction that is pro-king of the North and a faction that is pro-king of the South. The anti-UN faction ("rebels" who are pro- king of the South) would be allied with Prince William (King of the South = spiritual Egypt/ Illuminati Freemasonry). The pro- King of the South faction promotes human microchipping in opposition to the UN - see Isaiah 36:2-6; it is Egypt (who pierces the hand) that Israel relies on to fight against Assyria (the king of the North).

    The UN leader/ Daniel 8 little horn is allied with the Pope in some capacity. The Pope will be the mouth of the beast.

    The reason that the Pope is promoted as the 'antichrist' is that he will be blamed for the evils of the UN Nazi regime (= the beast). The UN Nazi regime will be the dominant political force and will be evil. Prince William & the pro- king of the South faction (pro- Illuminati Freemasonry aka 'rebels') will war against Mystery Babylon (Rome/ Vatican). When the Illuminati rebels destroy the Vatican, then the Pope will be said to be an 'alien vampire' & to have 'mind-controlled' the Daniel 8 little horn/ the UN leader - as if all the evils of the UN Nazi regime were due to the Pope. With the Pope gone, then the False Prophet (Prince William) can say that the UN govt is good and he gives it his seal of approval - now that the influence of the Pope is gone ('they will hate whore & burn her with fire').
  12. ThatCanadianDude_88

    ThatCanadianDude_88 New Member

    If I may, I can see that you have a certain theory and view certain contemporary figures as fulfilling prophecy, but it simply does not line up with Scripture. I've found that it helped me a lot to focus more on understanding Scripture rather than trying to fit present circumstances into it. It especially becomes dicey when we start laying down dates.

    To help define things:

    False Christ = False Prophet, this is a world figure that will arise out of apostate Christianity. Rome does happen to fit this bill to the T.

    Anti-Christ = inverse of Christ, other names given to this character are "man of sin", "lawless one", "the Assyrian", "the king in the north", "little horn", "prince who is to come".

    Both the origin and activities of the anti-christ are spoken of in Scripture. He is going to rise out of and operate within the middle east regions. The EU / UN theories I believe are red herrings.

    Understanding the principles of prophetic foreshadowing, we have the Assyrian (Assyrian Empire) as mentioned by Isaiah and Micah, and the King in the North mentioned by Daniel (Seleucid Empire). In modern times both these kingdoms roughly overlap with present day Iran, Iraq, and Syria.

    Lastly, there is a huge piece of the puzzle that is missing. The final world kingdom, and this is not going to come until after the great global cataclysm.
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    tranquil, what visible event happened on April 19, 2018 - that would mark that day as a meaningful day?
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    But both preterists and traditional futurists say that the weeks are weeks of years.
    From the bible, where was you getting 77th anniversary? Or a 70th "anniversary", for that matter? I am not seeing anything about any sort of "anniversary" being mentioned.
  15. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    I've posted the verse multiple times just in this thread alone. All you have to do is hover over it...

    Daniel 9:2
    2in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

    Israel's 'birthday' was 5 Iyyar, 5708. Add 70 years. 5 Iyyar, 5778. Dusk April 19, 2018

    that is the starting point for going forward 70 weeks, then 7 weeks, then 62 weeks, then 3.5 days.
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  16. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    Nothing marked that day. Why? Was something supposed to happen?

    Mike Pence confirmed a covenant with Israel on the solar 70th anniversary of Israel, May 14, 2018, but because people believe in a 'whisked away' rapture, people think it is nothing of importance.
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    I think you misunderstood me. What I was driving at is where in the bible are you reading about some "anniversary"? Give me a bible verse containing something about an anniversary.

    I will give you an example, from the bible, but regarding the confirming of the covenant done on an anniversary.

    Deuteronomy 31:9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

    10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles, [tranquil, that would be an example of an anniversary]

    11 When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.

    12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:

    13 And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

    Moses made the law so that future generations would not forget everything the children of Israel went through in the Egyptian ordeal, and the Exodus, to come into the land God promised as theirs forever.

    Contrary to that anniversary stipulated in the bible, there is not an anniversary regarding the 70 years of Israel being a nation again - in the bible.

    The 7 years in Daniel 9:27 - if the Antichrist sticks to the "on the feast of tabernacles" as Moses required, will begin then. And Jesus's return will be around that time of the year, the fall feasts, 7 years later.
  18. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    What do you think I just described? The United Nations is the 'final world kingdom' that comes after the tribulation going on between the 6th Seal & the first 4 Trumpets...

    but people are not all en masse going to kow-tow to this entity from the get-go. Satan has already set up the plan for the 'resistance' to this. The Pope will be scapegoated for all the evils of the United Nations, thereby discrediting Christianity in general. Making the world hate Christians and making the False Prophet look like a hero.

    Muslims will be herded to the United Nations (King of the North). Israel will be herded to the Illuminati Freemasonry (king of the South).

    The Vatican is Mystery Babylon, the prostitute that rides the beast. It isn't the beast. 2 separate entities. Satan wants people to confuse the 2 because Rome will be destroyed and scapegoated so as to appear holy.
  19. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    You are not proving anything with this ridiculous insistence on an 'anniversary'. It says 70 years.

    And anyway, the 'antichrist' is not going to adhere to the 'feast' days. Daniel 7:25
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    The 70 years is the amount of time that God said through Jeremiah that Judah would be ruled by and serve the King of Babylon. Which has been fulfilled.

    Israel in 1948 became a unified sovereign state. Not serving any foreign king.

    On the other issue, the Antichrist may not adhere to confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant on the feast of tabernacles, but at some other time. Remains to be seen.