Churching, Male child's entrance into the altar

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silouanathonite

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I was asked a question yesterday by one of the kids in my Sunday school class. Why is the male child brought behind the altar during the churching service and the female is not? I was beginning to explain it to her, but I had to stop short because they teens had a meeting and told her I would get back to her next week. I'm writing to see what your response to a question like that would be. I know (as much I can know) what churching is, but I am looking for an explanation besides women can't enter the altar as to why the male child is brought back there. Keep in mind that this is a 12-13 year asking this questions. She asked it privately, but I will briefly touch on it to the whole class the next time we meet. Thank you in advance for your help.
 
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Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta

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AFAIK, it's simply because females are not allowed in the altar area. I'm pretty sure the custom of not allowing females in the altar goes back to Jewish OT practice.

I think it's written in the Protoevangelion of St. James that the only woman ever allowed into the altar was the Theotokos (when she was dedicated to the temple).
 
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Matrona

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I think it's because the boy may grow up to be clergy, whereas girls will not.

Many priests church both boys and girls the same way nowadays. Usually that means both boys and girls are churched outside the altar but occasionally some will church both boys and girls behind it.
 
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Philothei

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My husband have wrote an article about this one. I believe it is in Orthodox Institute server I wil find it and post it here. Pretty much he explains that the one of the canons forbid the entrance of ALL laity in the altar. Women being not ordained clergy of course have no buisness being there also. With special permission a woman could go it in order to clean or change the altar covers. The practice of bringing the babies is not based on a cannon it is just a tradition (that usually confuses laity)...lol... by saying that we bring them in to the altar in the hope to become clergymen we justify this practice?? it is not one of my favorite answers either.
God bless,
Philothei
 
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Matrona

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I think it's because the boy may grow up to be clergy, whereas girls will not.

This is what I have heard, as well. Don't know if it's the real reason or not.

Mary

If, like Philothei says, it's just a tradition, I have to wonder about it. I'm not sure it should ever be appropriate to bring an unbaptized person behind the iconostasis, and most babies being churched haven't been baptized yet.
 
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Dewi Sant

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...In the ancient Church the diaconate was open to women as well as men. In many parts of the Christian East the deaconesses were ordained with exactly the same prayers as in the case of male deacons, and they were given the same vestments to wear. The ordination of the deaconess was performed inside the sanctuary, and into her hands was placed the chalice containing the consecrated elements, which she then placed upon the holy table...

- Quote taken from the Bulletin of Spiritual Edification from the Ecumenical Patriarchate Archdiocese of Thyateira and Great Britain on the Sunday of the Myrrh Bearers 2007.
 
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Mary of Bethany

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If, like Philothei says, it's just a tradition, I have to wonder about it. I'm not sure it should ever be appropriate to bring an unbaptized person behind the iconostasis, and most babies being churched haven't been baptized yet.

In our parish, it's done *after* baptism, not during the churching.

Mary
 
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Mary of Bethany

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Are you OCA? Because in the Byzantiochian tradition the churching is done beforehand.

Yes, I'm OCA. We just had a baby churched and baptized this weekend. The churching took place on Saturday evening after Vespers, then the baptism (and the walk through the Altar) before DL Sunday morning.

Mary
 
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ProfChrysostomos

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Χριστός Ανέστη!


Please allow me to answer this question from both a historical and theological perspective. As my better half mentioned, I had written a paper that was published in a national journal on this very topic. One of the issues I covered is the Orthodox custom of bringing male children into the altar. I will provide snippets of this article in this post.

The Orthodox churching service is, technically speaking, one of the three pre-baptismal rites of the Church, done in preparation for the baptism of the child. The other two are the service conducted on the birth of the child (day 1) and the service of the naming of the child (day 8). These services may be found, more or less, in several of the later Byzantine euchologia.

The service of churching is conducted on the fortieth day following the birth of the child. The rite itself has very clear Judaic roots, stemming from the Hebrew custom of dedicating all first-born male children to God ("παν άρσεν το την μήτραν διανοίγον άγιον Θεώ" -"every male that opens the womb is [dedicated as] holy to God." In this temple tradition, the priest would thank God for the new life brought into the world and for rendering the dedicated child a peripheral member of Jewish society, in preparation for their full incorporation into Judaism.

In the Orthodox Church, all children, regardless of gender, are dedicated to God. This final pre-baptismal rite makes the infant a peripheral member of the Church (allowed to attend but not receive the sacraments), in preparation for baptism. In one sense, the child almost becomes like the Catechumens of the early Church, who were allowed to attend the synaxis or, when the synaxis became fused with the Liturgy after the fourth century, were dismissed after the prayers for the Catechumens (τα Κατηχούμενα), that followed the readings and the homily.

The practice of bringing male children into the altar has become the norm in Orthodox churches that follow the Byzantine rite. Female infants are typically brought before the iconostasis. Actually, it may be quite surprising to many that confusion sparked this particular rubric to assume the form that it has today. The earliest euchologia make reference to the male children being brought through the "royal doors". Today, we tend to equate the "royal doors" with the "holy doors" of the iconostasis. In Byzantine times, there was a clearcut distinction. The royal doors, in the architectural scheme of cathedral or large churches, were the middle set of doors leading from the narthex into the nave. It was through these doors that children were brought into the main church. After all, their dedication was to the community, which naturally populated the nave, not to the order of the clergy. Indeed, this explanation then lends support to the claim - and rightfully so - that it is inappropriate for unbaptized persons to enter the "holy of holies."

Another point I'd like to make is, as Philothei mentioned, that there is indeed a liturgical canon banning the laity from the altar. Actually, one needs to have the blessing of the local bishop (altar boys, tonsured monks or nuns, subdeacons, readers, etc.) to enter the altar. More simply, the rule of thumb is: if one has no liturgical business in the altar, be he/she a man or woman, he/she must not enter. (A word of warning to parish council members constantly hounding the priest during services to make announcements, etc.).

Finally, how do I feel about bringing infants into the altar? If we are to continue this custom and be consistent with the canon law of the Church, children should be brought into the nave through the royal doors and not into altar, and this should be done NOT in an empty church but at the conclusion of the Divine Liturgy in the presence of the faithful. This is one option. A second option would be that if unbaptized males are brought into the altar, then there is absolutely no theological reason whatsoever for females to be denied this same privilege. Our reservations may stem from our cultural mores that we so often confuse with what we believe to be proper liturgical practice or theological truth. Very dangerous! Personally, I would opt for the first solution, simply because historically it is abundantly clear that there has been a misunderstanding of terms.

I hope this helps.

Blessings,

+ Prof.
 
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Monica child of God 1

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AFAIK, it's simply because females are not allowed in the altar area. I'm pretty sure the custom of not allowing females in the altar goes back to Jewish OT practice.

I think it's written in the Protoevangelion of St. James that the only woman ever allowed into the altar was the Theotokos (when she was dedicated to the temple).

...In the ancient Church the diaconate was open to women as well as men. In many parts of the Christian East the deaconesses were ordained with exactly the same prayers as in the case of male deacons, and they were given the same vestments to wear. The ordination of the deaconess was performed inside the sanctuary, and into her hands was placed the chalice containing the consecrated elements, which she then placed upon the holy table...

- Quote taken from the Bulletin of Spiritual Edification from the Ecumenical Patriarchate Archdiocese of Thyateira and Great Britain on the Sunday of the Myrrh Bearers 2007.

It isn't true that women are not allowed behind the iconostasis. If women have a reason to enter the sanctuary and a blessing from the priest, bishop or abbess they may do so. This is really the same criteria for a man to enter: a reason and a blessing. In women's monasteries women serve at the altar assisting the priest just as an acolyte would. When my priest visited Greece he was given a clergy tour led by an abbess who took them into the sanctuary of different churches.

And as ramesses excellent quote illustrates, when the female diaconate was in place, female deacons were ordained at the altar. A heard a lecture given by a priest who said that his research showed that female deacons entered the sanctuary to take communion with their brother deacons.

M.
 
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Matrona

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It isn't true that women are not allowed behind the iconostasis. If women have a reason to enter the sanctuary and a blessing from the priest, bishop or abbess they may do so.

Thank you for pointing all this out, Monica. I hate it when I hear anyone say women aren't allowed behind the iconostasis, or say that we are only allowed back there to clean it. As if the "guys" are too lazy to clean back there themselves and cleaning is what women are good for. :scratch:
 
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Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta

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It isn't true that women are not allowed behind the iconostasis. If women have a reason to enter the sanctuary and a blessing from the priest, bishop or abbess they may do so. This is really the same criteria for a man to enter: a reason and a blessing. In women's monasteries women serve at the altar assisting the priest just as an acolyte would. When my priest visited Greece he was given a clergy tour led by an abbess who took them into the sanctuary of different churches.

And as ramesses excellent quote illustrates, when the female diaconate was in place, female deacons were ordained at the altar. A heard a lecture given by a priest who said that his research showed that female deacons entered the sanctuary to take communion with their brother deacons.

M.
I stand corrected. I did know, however, that the "rule" was different in monasteries.
 
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Monica child of God 1

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One sees women at the altar more in monasteries simply because altar service is something women do there. Parish altar service is usually directed toward the formation of priests and deacons from among the laity. Because the Orthodox Church views the priesthood as a paternal ministry, women do not serve in the altar in parish life. Looking at it this way, it is a matter of function more than biology.

M.
 
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cassc

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Excellent post Professor! what you say makes sense to me, my priest has always said the same thing, it's not women who are not allowed behind the altar but anyone without a purpose, but again as you point out that does not stop some people from barging back there for a chat!
 
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NyssaTheHobbit

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Hmmm....The people in my church seem to believe no women are allowed back there at all. It's even cleaned by men (which, one matronly woman noted, is why there was a lot of dust back there recently). When the church across the street was burning, the police called a woman who was on their contact list, and she went over to our church to salvage what she could in case the fire spread or the steeples fell. (She's probably on the contact list instead of the priest because he lives in another county.) The electricity was turned off, so the phones weren't working, so she couldn't call a man to come over. She decided to disregard the rules for this one time, and remove various items from the altar so they wouldn't get burned up. I should think that qualifies as a good reason. ;)
 
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It does:)

Sometimes, if there are men available to clean who have been given a blessing to go in the altar, women won't be given the chore of doing so. Sometimes women do the better job, and are given the blessing to enter the altar. And in women's monasteries, a nun or two is given a blessing to act as altar attendant because the priest needs assistance.
 
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