Churches with unbiblical doctrines

[woobadooba]

It is well put together.

I agree.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There have been dozens of responses by now. Suppose the issue of woman pastors has been settled, would it be important/appropriate to make make the same examination asking, "will I be sinning if I attend a church that is Oneness/Trinitarian" etc?
It seems there could be a lengthy succession of these examinations.

....
realizing there once was an apparently true believer - in every way known inside and out, spirit, mind, soul and body and thoughts and hopes and dreams and results, (as far as known),
IN a JW assembly. For about 6 or 8 years (as a youth).
He did not know the heresy of JWs, and they did not know he was saved.

When it was time, YHWH'S time, the door to leave that assembly opened wide,
and the door to stay at that assembly slammed tight shut --- YHWH'S DOING.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I understand that I wont find a doctrinally perfect church, but am I in sin if I attend a church that subscribes to and practices unbiblical beliefs?

i.e a church that allows women to be pastors. without getting into a debate, lets assume that this is unbiblical, Am I sinning if I continue to attend? what are the biblical principles for this?

In one sense it comes down to conscience. We all, at some point or another, will disagree with this or that with our churches; but at what point it becomes critical to disassociate yourself and find a new home to worship in is something that ultimately only you can answer: of course many of us would point out that absolutely that there are things that make a church a toxic environment, and/or that makes a church unacceptable because it is promoting serious error--and we will have our convictions on those matters largely informed by our own experiences and traditions. As a Lutheran I couldn't attend a non-Lutheran church, not because I deny that non-Lutherans are Christians (of course non-Lutheran Christians are Christians the same as Lutherans) but because there are certain matters of conviction and confession which would prohibit me from doing so in good conscience. I couldn't attend a church that denied the Real Presence in the Eucharist, or that didn't teach and emphasize the distinction between Law and Gospel, etc

Which is why, on some level, no matter how its dressed up; when we recommend what sorts of churches someone ought to attend it will inevitably be "you should go to a church like mine" to some varying degree.

Which is also why, at some level, only you can make this kind of decision--where does your conviction reside, when does something go beyond mere simple disagreement to regarding a thing as serious error and detrimental to Christian spiritual health? You, of course, might be wrong either way (that is, you could believe a church is seriously wrong but you yourself be the one in the wrong; and likewise you might think something is no big matter, but yet it is a big matter, etc) but right or wrong, for better or for worse, at some level this is something only you can decide based on the information available to you and your own conscience.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Dave-W]

There is a doctrinally perfect Church: the Catholic. I

If it is so doctrinally "perfect," why then have the previous 2 popes** listened closely to doctrinal correction brought by us?

**John Paul 2, Benedict.

 

[Righttruth]

I understand that I wont find a doctrinally perfect church, but am I in sin if I attend a church that subscribes to and practices unbiblical beliefs?

i.e a church that allows women to be pastors. without getting into a debate, lets assume that this is unbiblical, Am I sinning if I continue to attend? what are the biblical principles for this?

No church is perfect. All of them mostly have become social clubs catering to needs of the people. So go to the church that is convenient to a great extent. But don't get immersed in their funny ideas, instead be a true witness of Jesus Christ.

 

[ToBeLoved]

....
realizing there once was an apparently true believer - in every way known inside and out, spirit, mind, soul and body and thoughts and hopes and dreams and results, (as far as known),
IN a JW assembly. For about 6 or 8 years (as a youth).
He did not know the heresy of JWs, and they did not know he was saved.

When it was time, YHWH'S time, the door to leave that assembly opened wide,
and the door to stay at that assembly slammed tight shut --- YHWH'S DOING.

So your advice is to stay in error until God provides a clear way out.

Reminds me of stay on welfare until a job lands in your lap.

 

[Vicomte13]

If it is so doctrinally "perfect," why then have the previous 2 popes** listened closely to doctrinal correction brought by us?

**John Paul 2, Benedict.

Who is "us", and why should "we" be listened to?

 

[ToBeLoved]

No church is perfect. All of them mostly have become social clubs catering to needs of the people. So go to the church that is convenient to a great extent. But don't get immersed in their funny ideas, instead be a true witness of Jesus Christ.

Why do you advise compromise from the start? Let's just choose churches by the best looking preacher. A girl needs eye candy. And then a good to look st worship team that dresses nice. Follllwed by free Starbucks before and after church.

Good reason as yours.

This is why the church is as it is. Pew squatters. Give God an hour in a convenient church you don't really like but is 5 min from home.

 

[Dave-W]

"Us" is the Modern Messianic Jewish movement; and more specifically the Toward Jerusalem Council 2. (tjcii.org)

"We" should be listened to because for too long no one has been able or willing to challenge the status quo. Without that challenge, how do you know if your doctrines and practices REALLY stand up to muster?

About 5 years ago, the new RCC catechism was submitted to the TJCII team and Rabbi Dan Juster was able to get a re-write on the section that described the relationship between the Church and Israel.

I have not been in contact with any of the TJCII board members since Francis took office, but since he was meeting with one of them (Rabbi Marty Waldman) when he got the call to go to Rome for the convocation, I would suspect that the relationship is even better and more productive today.

 

[Righttruth]

Why do you advise compromise from the start? Let's just choose churches by the best looking preacher. A girl needs eye candy. And then a good to look st worship team that dresses nice. Follllwed by free Starbucks before and after church.

Good reason as yours.

This is why the church is as it is. Pew squatters. Give God an hour in a convenient church you don't really like but is 5 min from home.

All churches have sidelined the preaching and words of Jesus.

 

[Sbikeboy]

I understand that I wont find a doctrinally perfect church, but am I in sin if I attend a church that subscribes to and practices unbiblical beliefs?

i.e a church that allows women to be pastors. without getting into a debate, lets assume that this is unbiblical, Am I sinning if I continue to attend? what are the biblical principles for this?

I acknowledge your difficulty and the short answer is NO, as long as you don't know of a better option. First let us look at the nature of sin. Sin is rebellion against God's moral law. So if you are attending a church, that you know is doctrinally challenged, and you are doing so because you are, out of obedience trying to fulfill Gods moral principle of staying in communion with the body of Christ, then your going to church is an act of obedience, which is not rebellion. This does not absolve you of the requirement to keep searching however. The danger is that you can at some point say, "well this is as good as I can do" and then stop trying. That would be laziness, which is self-indulgence, which is a function of pride, which is a sin.

Now it may well be that you are not fully open to the truth of God, which is why you have not yet considered some doctrine that is not challenged. If that is the case then some other sin may be driving you to some set of churches that are doctrinally challenged. Thus it would be perilous to stop working on your own sin, and stop searching, because you would run the risk of staying content in some state of rebellion. Which most of us are in to some extent, and which we should all be actively trying to get out of to a great extent.

 

[woobadooba]

All churches have sidelined the preaching and words of Jesus.

I don't think you can say all with certainty. How would you go about validating such a statement?
However, from my experience, I haven't been to a church that didn't in some way, misrepresent the Scriptures.

 

[ToBeLoved]

All churches have sidelined the preaching and words of Jesus.

So how in the world have you been able to visit all churches in your lifetime? You are very knowledgeable. Do you know the teachings of the churches in my area? Their teachings and all that?

 

[Sbikeboy]

Why do you advise compromise from the start? Let's just choose churches by the best looking preacher. A girl needs eye candy. And then a good to look st worship team that dresses nice. Follllwed by free Starbucks before and after church.

Good reason as yours.

This is why the church is as it is. Pew squatters. Give God an hour in a convenient church you don't really like but is 5 min from home.

You presume an knowledge in your post of internal intent and I wonder how it is that you can be so informed of the people in the pews and their innermost thoughts? Considering that today most people do not feel compelled to go to church from social pressure, would it not stand to reason that you have at least a plurality of church goers that do so as a function of seeking a relationship with God?

 

[ToBeLoved]

You presume an knowledge in your post of internal intent and I wonder how it is that you can be so informed of the people in the pews and their innermost thoughts? Considering that today most people do not feel compelled to go to church from social pressure, would it not stand to reason that you have at least a plurality of church goers that do so as a function of seeking a relationship with God?

This was a reply to a specific post.

When your question follows the reply string and is on that topic, LMK and I'll answer it. If you want to join, stay in the reply/respond flow. I never even posted about this.

 

[Righttruth]

I don't think you can say all with certainty. How would you go about validating such a statement?
However, from my experience, I haven't been to a church that didn't in some way, misrepresent the Scriptures.

This is somewhat discussed elaborately in the book "Did Saint Paul Deviate From The Gospel?"

 

[Righttruth]

So how in the world have you been able to visit all churches in your lifetime? You are very knowledgeable. Do you know the teachings of the churches in my area? Their teachings and all that?

I don't have to visit all the churches in the world to arrive at the broad belief of a particular sect or denomination though I don't mind visiting all kinds of churches whenever their is an opportunity. I have visited Baptist, JWs, Methodist, Non-denominational (I continue to attend this ), different Pentecostal based churches (fundamental to moderate) at different places, Catholic, church of Christ (non-instrumental), etc. for the sake of arriving at the truth.

You see, there is an Indian saying that just checking one grain of rice is sufficient to ascertain whether a bowl of rice has been completely cooked.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If God wanted any church to be perfect, he would simply dismiss the priest or preacher and take the pulpit himself.

haha - or ??

If you read through the New Testament specifically to see how Jesus trained the Apostles and His disciples, and how they lived,
you can easily verify what Jesus meant when He told them "You must be perfect" ,
and see
how the Father accomplished this in them at the time (in the first century, and part of the second century probably) .
Note particularly how often YHWH SAYS (not man said) that they were "in union" with Yeshua daily,
and
also continually full of peace and joy and righteousness,
and
also holy (according to YHWH)
and
also in so many other ways (described by YHWH) they were 'different' than what you have seen in life so far.

i.e. read the BIBLE, and go by what the BIBLE says and YHWH confirms Himself. not by what we see or hear today from men.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So your advice is to stay in error until God provides a clear way out.

Reminds me of stay on welfare until a job lands in your lap.

No. You entirely mis-read the post, and misrepresented the point.

However, you bring up another point entirely different - if you are on welfare yourself, and don't have a job, should you first get off welfare, or would you first get a job and then get off welfare ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I haven't been to a church that didn't in some way, misrepresent the Scriptures.

Did you give up looking ?

Do you believe what Scripture says : "Seek, and keep seeking, and you will find" "Ask, and keep asking, and you will receive" "Ask the Father in My Name (JESUS), and He will give to you" ,

"if you then (the disciples) , being evil, give good gifts to your sons, how much more will the Father in heaven give what is good to you "
and
so on, again and again and again - YHWH'S Word and JESUS' FAITHFULNESS.