Churches operating on money is wrong

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

My view of modern churches is, that they have an $X monthly minimum budget to operate. In USA it can be thousands of dollars, in Kazakhstan - hundreds. Still, they need money-money-money (which makes the world go round). If they do not receive $X or more every month, they're in big trouble, they can get into debt and then go bankrupt. Constant need of money. They can't really earn money today like in the old days, when churches owned land, peasants, manufacturing facilities etc. Today, they're mostly stripped of those feudalist or capitalist privileges and can only collect donations. Churches on odd occasions rent out their premises, but that's not their main business and doesn't cover $X.

I see it as a big problem. Because church as organization isn't forced by serving Jesus anymore, but by this constant "Damoclis gladius" hanging over their heads... Constantly finding $X this way or another to survive, turning them into a parasite of society... It's very bad, I think. Very bad. Very corrupting.

What do you think?

 

[JingshenBianxi]

Church is being defined in an incorrect way. These days when you say the word Church, more than likely the person is going to visualize " the building ". Even these counterfeit churches who outwardly admit that church is NOT a building....still function as if church can't be church...WITHOUT the building. This is how the church is supposed to operate in regards to MONEY..

Acts 2:45 - And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need.

See the MONEY...went to the Church..aka...THE PEOPLE...aka...the SAVED. That's..the Church. Jesus is coming back for His CHURCH....not a temple built by human hands.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Constantly finding $X this way or another to survive, turning them into a parasite of society... It's very bad, I think. Very bad. Very corrupting. What do you think?

I partially agree. The most popular Protestant churches around the world are run by glib talkers who have charisma.

Mega-churches should not exist.

If you look at the top 20 mega-churches in the United States, 90% of them are run by glib talkers who preach something other than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I will not post the names of pastors or churches because I don't want to offend CF members....

But many mega-church pastors are charlatans, in my opinion

 

[bling]

I helped support some underground churches in China, but the Communist government has made this difficult lately. They have no money to take up (being only 20 people or less, the leaders are not paid, and they have no building. They do take care of the families of those fathers in prison for the cause, but that is about it. They are also extremely fast growing.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

"Glib talkers on religion are not always the best people" - James Oswald Dykes (1908)

 

[Korean-American Christian]

"I grew up in one of those big ol’ megachurches, and it taught me to hate church." - Jonathan Aigner

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Many mega-churches:

Love the Bible, hate the way it’s used.

Love worship, but hate the jesusy entertainment.

Love Jesus, but hate how we’ve reduced him to a marketing ploy.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

If you are going to suggest churches should operate without money it would seem to follow that individual Christians should operate without money as well. Your basic accusation against Churches is that they need to account for a baseline budget and this serves as a distraction. This morality would apply to the every individual person as well since they are also concerned with budgets concerning themselves, family and the expenses that entails.

Not even the apostles did away with money and they collected it from people who were joining the church. Two people even died when they failed to disclose truthfully how much they had. Paul was concerned to collect money for the Jerusalem Church which was going through trouble and received help from the Philippians in the form of monetary help while in prison.

My question would be, have you personally given up all your possessions and income? If not, how can you condemn people who want there to be a building which can serve the Church in it's purposes either liturgically, charitably, socially and etc?

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Don’t take your kids to a megachurch, where the only value they see in worship is the production value.

Don’t take your kids to a megachurch, where the preacher and “worship leader” are rock stars.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Many mega-churches mangle the Bible.

It’s easy to make the Bible say whatever you want.

Many mega-churches promote superficial Christianity

 

[Root of Jesse]

My view of modern churches is, that they have an $X monthly minimum budget to operate. In USA it can be thousands of dollars, in Kazakhstan - hundreds. Still, they need money-money-money (which makes the world go round). If they do not receive $X or more every month, they're in big trouble, they can get into debt and then go bankrupt. Constant need of money. They can't really earn money today like in the old days, when churches owned land, peasants, manufacturing facilities etc. Today, they're mostly stripped of those feudalist or capitalist privileges and can only collect donations. Churches on odd occasions rent out their premises, but that's not their main business and doesn't cover $X.

I see it as a big problem. Because church as organization isn't forced by serving Jesus anymore, but by this constant "Damoclis gladius" hanging over their heads... Constantly finding $X this way or another to survive, turning them into a parasite of society... It's very bad, I think. Very bad. Very corrupting.

What do you think?

I wonder where you get the idea that the Church owned peasants and manufacturing facilities (other than monasteries)? It is true that it takes funds to run any church, anywhere. The pastor must eat, if he has a family, they must be put through school and have their needs met, and so on. Most churches only grow when the funds grow enough, otherwise they stay small and stagnate.
Regarding the organization not serving Jesus, most religious orders of the Catholic Church subsist on donations and often operate only on very slim $$$. Dioceses do need money, parishes need money, mostly because you gotta pay for the staff, including the priests, who must buy their own food, insurance, and amenities from a very small salary-about $30,000 a year for the bishop and priests of the diocese of Oakland, CA. But religious communities are usually self-sufficient and often are the best run charities in places like Africa, and where you are. Other than food and a roof, they have no expenses, other than to take care of the people they serve.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Brothers, We Are Not Professionals | Desiring God

We pastors are being killed by the professionalizing of the pastoral ministry.

The more professional we long to be, the more spiritual death we will leave in our wake.

Brothers, we are not professionals. We are outcasts. We are aliens and exiles in the world.

(quotes by Pastor John Piper)

 

[Albion]

Good points, ROJ.

However, I don't see why this thread even deserves to be in "Controversial Christian Theology."

Churches ought to do everything that the members want but completely without financing hardly amounts to Controversial Theology.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

However, I don't see why this thread even deserves to be in "Controversial Christian Theology."
Churches ought to do everything that the members want but completely without financing hardly amounts to Controversial Theology.

Some CF members might find this topic to be controversial....

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Church should be a stark contrast from the world and what it offers.

 

[Albion]

Some CF members might find this topic to be controversial....

And as for the "Theology" part?????????????

 

[Korean-American Christian]

And as for the "Theology" part?????????????

As for the "Theology" part....I don't know what to say....

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Mega-churches seem to love Matthew 7:20. “You shall know them by their fruit.”

Mega-churches interpret fruit to be numerical growth.

“Look at the numerical growth! Obviously, God is blessing the mega-church!”

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Good points, ROJ.

However, I don't see why this thread even deserves to be in "Controversial Christian Theology."

Churches ought to do everything that the members want but completely without financing hardly amounts to Controversial Theology.

I agree. But where else to post it?

 

[Korean-American Christian]

A mega-church preacher asked for 60 million dollars in donations from church members so that he could purchase a personal jet "for his ministry."

What does a personal jet have to do with Christian ministry??