Churches have finally awakened! Call for an end to Israeli occupation of arab lands!

[Archaeopteryx]

I do not and will not follow the dictates of the "new testament" and therefore the verse I quoted stands firm for the verse is the word of G-d. The Torah says what it says regardless of what people think of G-d as He is "portrayed" in the "old law" as the law is the law. In order for anyone to be called the messiah they must complete their assigned task and in that they must not fail even 1 attribute that the messiah is to fulfil and sense Jewish law clearly states that the messiah will be human, yes, but that he will NOT be G-d as G-d is G-d for He is ONE therefore that alone forfeits Jesus' claim to be the "son of god". Thus it is you Christians that must "prove" that the Torah says that Jesus is in fact the messiah and that the Church is the "new Israel" as you Christians put it.

There is no forfeit to Jesus' claim to be the Son of God. Indeed, his claim is proven by the Resurrection and by the Hebrew Scriptures... Isaiah 7:14: "Behold a young women shall conceive and bear a son, and his name will be Emmanuel" Emmanuel the name is itself a message, meaning "God is with us." The message is clear, God is with us in Christ.

Furthermore, one must take into account all the prophecies that Jesus fulfilled- a statistical abnormality for such things to occur by mere chance. For example, the prophecy of the Suffering Servant. Isaiah 53 3-6: "He is despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."
Also, consider this explicit clue in the Hebrew Scriptures... Isaiah 9:6 written: 712 BC (Before Christ) - "For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

 

[Tanakh]

There is no forfeit to Jesus' claim to be the Son of God. Indeed, his claim is proven by the Resurrection and by the Hebrew Scriptures... Isaiah 7:14: "Behold a young women shall conceive and bear a son, and his name will be Emmanuel" Emmanuel the name is itself a message, meaning "God is with us." The message is clear, God is with us in Christ.

Furthermore, one must take into account all the prophecies that Jesus fulfilled- a statistical abnormality for such things to occur by mere chance. For example, the prophecy of the Suffering Servant. Isaiah 53 3-6: "He is despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."
Also, consider this explicit clue in the Hebrew Scriptures... Isaiah 9:6 written: 712 BC (Before Christ) - "For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

You just took the Tanakh out of context as those verses have a completely different meaning. Isaiah 7:14 is in reference to either Isaiah's or Ahaz' young wife who is prophesied to bear a son and will call him Immanuel which does mean "G-d is with us", yes, however the prophesy is saying that Judah will be saved from Rezin and Pekah. Again the verse is not even talking about the messiah. Isaiah 9:5 is not referring to the coming of Jesus at all as the verse is saying that the wondrous salvation will take place during the child of Ahaz, the righteous King Hezekiah as it is he who G-d called the "Prince of Peace". This salvation is an ending of the seige upon Jerusalem by Sennacherib. Again this in not a reference to Jesus or the messiah.

And thus we come to one of the most deliberately misused verses in the entire Tanakh: Isaiah 53. Those Jewish Torah scholars who commented on this verse sum it up clearly.

Isaiah 53:1-3 'This is a prophesy foretelling what the nations and their kings will exclaim when they witness Israel's rejuvenation. The nations will contrast their former scornful attitude toward the Jews with their new realization of Israel's grandeur.'

Isaiah 53:5 ' We brought suffering upon Israel for our own selfish purposes; it was not, as we had claimed, that G-d was punishing Israel for its own evil behavior.'

Isaiah 53:6 'We sinned by inflicting punishment upon Israel. Such oppression is often described as "HASHEM'S punishment", for He decreed that it should happen.'

The "suffering servant" is NOT Jesus but the Jewish people; all of Israel.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You just took the Tanakh out of context as those verses have a completely different meaning. Isaiah 7:14 is in reference to either Isaiah's or Ahaz' young wife who is prophesied to bear a son and will call him Immanuel which does mean "G-d is with us", yes, however the prophesy is saying that Judah will be saved from Rezin and Pekah. Again the verse is not even talking about the messiah. Isaiah 9:5 is not referring to the coming of Jesus at all as the verse is saying that the wondrous salvation will take place during the child of Ahaz, the righteous King Hezekiah as it is he who G-d called the "Prince of Peace". This salvation is an ending of the seige upon Jerusalem by Sennacherib. Again this in not a reference to Jesus or the messiah.

And thus we come to one of the most deliberately misused verses in the entire Tanakh: Isaiah 53. Those Jewish Torah scholars who commented on this verse sum it up clearly.

Isaiah 53:1-3 'This is a prophesy foretelling what the nations and their kings will exclaim when they witness Israel's rejuvenation. The nations will contrast their former scornful attitude toward the Jews with their new realization of Israel's grandeur.'

Isaiah 53:5 ' We brought suffering upon Israel for our own selfish purposes; it was not, as we had claimed, that G-d was punishing Israel for its own evil behavior.'

Isaiah 53:6 'We sinned by inflicting punishment upon Israel. Such oppression is often described as "HASHEM'S punishment", for He decreed that it should happen.'

The "suffering servant" is NOT Jesus but the Jewish people; all of Israel.

That is one interpretation to Scripture, but not necessarily the only one, and certainly not necessarily the right one. Futhermore, you have still failed to explain how Jesus is a false prophet.

 

[Tanakh]

That is one interpretation to Scripture, but not necessarily the only one, and certainly not necessarily the right one. Futhermore, you have still failed to explain how Jesus is a false prophet.

Their is only 1 meaning of scripture as we Jews have been stating what it is sense it was written as it was the goy who changed its only meaning.

 

[gwynedd1]

You just took the Tanakh out of context as those verses have a completely different meaning. Isaiah 7:14 is in reference to either Isaiah's or Ahaz' young wife who is prophesied to bear a son and will call him Immanuel which does mean "G-d is with us", yes, however the prophesy is saying that Judah will be saved from Rezin and Pekah. Again the verse is not even talking about the messiah. Isaiah 9:5 is not referring to the coming of Jesus at all as the verse is saying that the wondrous salvation will take place during the child of Ahaz, the righteous King Hezekiah as it is he who G-d called the "Prince of Peace". This salvation is an ending of the seige upon Jerusalem by Sennacherib. Again this in not a reference to Jesus or the messiah.

And thus we come to one of the most deliberately misused verses in the entire Tanakh: Isaiah 53. Those Jewish Torah scholars who commented on this verse sum it up clearly.

Isaiah 53:1-3 'This is a prophesy foretelling what the nations and their kings will exclaim when they witness Israel's rejuvenation. The nations will contrast their former scornful attitude toward the Jews with their new realization of Israel's grandeur.'

Isaiah 53:5 ' We brought suffering upon Israel for our own selfish purposes; it was not, as we had claimed, that G-d was punishing Israel for its own evil behavior.'

Isaiah 53:6 'We sinned by inflicting punishment upon Israel. Such oppression is often described as "HASHEM'S punishment", for He decreed that it should happen.'

The "suffering servant" is NOT Jesus but the Jewish people; all of Israel.

Hello Tanakh,

While Isaiah 7 takes a little explaining , what you pass as an interpretation on Isaiah 53 is a total rewrite of massive proportions. It says absolutely nothing of the kind of your claim.
They just make it up. You must certainly be a student of Cabala.


Isaiah 53

Who has believed what we have heard?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or majesty that we should look at him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3He was despised and rejected by others;
a man of suffering* and acquainted with infirmity;
and as one from whom others hide their faces*
he was despised, and we held him of no account.

4Surely he has borne our infirmities
and carried our diseases;
yet we accounted him stricken,
struck down by God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions,
crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the punishment that made us whole,
and by his bruises we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have all turned to our own way,
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.


7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8By a perversion of justice he was taken away.
Who could have imagined his future?
For he was cut off from the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people.
9They made his grave with the wicked
and his tomb* with the rich,*
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.


10Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him with pain.*
When you make his life an offering for sin,*
he shall see his offspring, and shall prolong his days;
through him the will of the Lord shall prosper.
11 Out of his anguish he shall see light;*
he shall find satisfaction through his knowledge.
The righteous one,* my servant, shall make many righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities.
12Therefore I will allot him a portion with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because he poured out himself to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Same with Isaiah 9. Just don't read and you will find no trouble with this.

For a child has been born for us,
a son given to us;
authority rests upon his shoulders;
and he is named
Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Just like this is ignored on top of Genesis. God being one or many? Probably is rather meaningless to God and this is all our simple minds can comprehend.

Isaiah 6

8Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, ‘Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?’

Only Isaiah 7 is not a simple reading just a simple understanding.

5He shall eat curds and honey by the time he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted. 17The Lord will bring on you and on your people and on your ancestral house such days as have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah—the king of Assyria.’

This does not appear to be a near term prophesy. This was a prophesy that these peoples would not endure. It cannot be near term because of this line:

(Within sixty-five years Ephraim will be shattered, no longer a people.)

This is certainly before Jesus in any case.

This is made all the more clear by Isaiah 8. This is the near term prophesy that follows.

Then the Lord said to me, Take a large tablet and write on it in common characters, ‘Belonging to Maher-shalal-hash-baz’,* 2and have it attested* for me by reliable witnesses, the priest Uriah and Zechariah son of Jeberechiah. 3And I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son. Then the Lord said to me, Name him Maher-shalal-hash-baz; 4for before the child knows how to call ‘My father’ or ‘My mother’, the wealth of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria will be carried away by the king of Assyria.

This is not an unusual poetic form of contrast. One may say "this child will be a great man, because he has already composed a symphony." This could be a statement about a young Mozart that announces a destiny and the near term inspiration of that destiny.

That is my reasonable interpretation as opposed to the complete ad hoc nature of those other claims.