Church of Constantinople officially recognizes the Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Kiev Patriarchate

[Unquirer]

Meanwhile, Antiochians be like:

 

[buzuxi02]

Meanwhile, Antiochians be like:

View attachment 243121

Actually they did release a statement about 3 or 4 days ago. They reject the schismatics.

 

[JasonV]

I remember you from before (welcome back, by the way). but no offense, we don't need a schismatic telling us how to properly deal with other schismatics.

Thanks for the welcome. And no offense taken. I wear the "schismatic" badge with pride with hanging out with my world orthodox friends.

 

[AMM]

Actually they did release a statement about 3 or 4 days ago. They reject the schismatics.

Do you have a link? Usually one of the parishioners forwards us statements from Metropolitan Joseph and from our bishop (Thomas), but I haven't seen anything yet.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Thanks for the welcome. And no offense taken. I wear the "schismatic" badge with pride with hanging out with my world orthodox friends.

good, I am glad it didn't come across that way. and of course you are welcome to hang out here in fellowship.

 

[buzuxi02]

Do you have a link? Usually one of the parishioners forwards us statements from Metropolitan Joseph and from our bishop (Thomas), but I haven't seen anything yet.

Warning the Google translate will butcher translation. It's about 2 paragraphs long in the middle.

Antioch Patriarchate

There is a summary with a good translation somewhere on Orthochristian.com

 

[AMM]

Warning the Google translate will butcher translation. It's about 2 paragraphs long in the middle.

Antioch Patriarchate

There is a summary with a good translation somewhere on Orthochristian.com

thanks!

 

[AMM]

Here's the English:
Antiochian Holy Synod rebukes Constantinople's unilateral actions, stresses need for pan-Orthodox synaxis

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I must say one thing I've never had much interest in with Orthodoxy is studying schisms and off-shoots or heretical groups, splinters, etc. I have zero idea what "World Orthodoxy" even is? Sounds like something Peter Gabriel or Bob Geldoff would start to feed starving Africans and convert them to Orthodoxy.

It's interesting to me how newbie Orthodox seem more fascinated with splinter groups and who commemorates whom during the liturgy than seasoned Orthodox or cradles. My VERY good friend, a widowed matushka, grew up in the "Old Believers" her entire life before her priest husband passed away. Then she came to our Church. We have talked for years and are friends, and I never cared a fig about "Old Believers" or any of that stuff.

The only way I'd care about all this is if my church communion announced some sort of separation. Then I'd dig in. But right now, as long as Patriarch Irenej of Serbia and the rest of the powers-that-be in Serbland are good to go, so am I.

 

[GoingByzantine]

I am trying to stay neutral with the way that I say this, and not exacerbate the drama, but I question why Constantinople is only doing this in Ukraine. Why not Belarus for instance? It certainly seems that there is a strong political motivation here, despite the fact that Bartholomew claims his recognition of the schismatics is done on merits of principal alone. If every independent country deserves a completely autcephalous church, then why hasn't Constantinople granted such privileges to Finnish Orthodox Church for instance, which it presides over.

I am not saying the Russians are innocent in this whole scenario either, but my mind can't ignore the inconsistencies behind Constantinople's actions. Even though many of Moscow's actions are rooted in banal nationalism, at least their position is straightforward and understandable to me, even if some aspects of it are troubling. I can't rationalize Bartholomew's actions on the other hand.

 

[buzuxi02]

It certainly seems that there is a strong political motivation here, despite the fact that Bartholomew claims his recognition of the schismatics is done on merits of principal alone.

You think??? Of course its political (and money). Funny is how the so called Macedonian church of Skopje was hoping the same. EP told them not as long as you keep calling yourselves "Macedonian". Granted it was pretty stupid of them to even think they can retain that name to begin with, should have had an alternate when they inquired.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I must say one thing I've never had much interest in with Orthodoxy is studying schisms and off-shoots or heretical groups, splinters, etc. I have zero idea what "World Orthodoxy" even is? Sounds like something Peter Gabriel or Bob Geldoff would start to feed starving Africans and convert them to Orthodoxy.

It's interesting to me how newbie Orthodox seem more fascinated with splinter groups and who commemorates whom during the liturgy than seasoned Orthodox or cradles. My VERY good friend, a widowed matushka, grew up in the "Old Believers" her entire life before her priest husband passed away. Then she came to our Church. We have talked for years and are friends, and I never cared a fig about "Old Believers" or any of that stuff.

The only way I'd care about all this is if my church communion announced some sort of separation. Then I'd dig in. But right now, as long as Patriarch Irenej of Serbia and the rest of the powers-that-be in Serbland are good to go, so am I.

I can relate. When I was a catechumen (iirc) there was some scuffle between either ROCOR or the ROC and the EP? I may be misremembering who was involved. It really distressed me. My priest explained it very briefly (I don't remember the details but I think it was over who was granted autocephaly by whom or not). He told me I was free to receive the Eucharist in any of those Churches (but also warned me gently not to be offended as I might possibly encounter something less than a warm welcome). It became nothing, to me personally. And I have since learned to focus on the day-to-day struggles to become Orthodox myself, not needing to worry about matters that are not mine to worry about.

There's a lady very dear to me in our parish too that I have gradually put together I think as having been an Old Believer in Greece. I love her dearly. We can't talk much due to language difficulties but I've visited her, she told me about all her icons (speaking Greek lol), and she is very kind to me and I admire her and her family very much, and we pray for each other. I don't know if she was formally received in some way or not - that's between her and Father. I do know the calendar is still a bit of a sticky thing for them.

I'd probably be in very great spiritual trouble if I decided to focus on these kinds of issues. I do pray for the Church. And I'm so thankful that my experience within my parish is all good for my spiritual condition. Sometimes the hierarchy does things that concern me. But for me now, I need to focus on what's right in front of me to do.

 

[MariaJLM]

While I tend to sympathize with Ukraine this is a sad situation all around. To make matters worse, my own bishop was one of the key players in pushing for recognition of the KP. That kind of puts me in an awkward position, especially if there ends up being a schism. I have pretty much decided that if it becomes another Jerusalem-Antioch situation then I'll remain where I am. However, if it's a complete schism as in everybody breaking communion with the EP then I will have no choice but to change jurisdictions. I honestly have no idea where I would go, though. There's only one other parish in my city that actually uses English and it's OCA. While I have no issues with OCA distance is a problem. It's difficult for me to get to that church.

 

[GoingByzantine]

While I tend to sympathize with Ukraine this is a sad situation all around. To make matters worse, my own bishop was one of the key players in pushing for recognition of the KP. That kind of puts me in an awkward position, especially if there ends up being a schism. I have pretty much decided that if it becomes another Jerusalem-Antioch situation then I'll remain where I am. However, if it's a complete schism as in everybody breaking communion with the EP then I will have no choice but to change jurisdictions. I honestly have no idea where I would go, though. There's only one other parish in my city that actually uses English and it's OCA. While I have no issues with OCA distance is a problem. It's difficult for me to get to that church.

Aye, and that is the big question. Will this be between two sees, or will it be a much wider potential schism? Alexandria for instance has been vehemently supporting the canonical Ukrainian Church over the past couple weeks, Patriarch Theodoros even went to Ukraine and concelebrated with the canonical bishops. You have to wonder what the other churches will do. Especially since most have openly backed Moscow on this issue.

This issue will likely mend itself in time, but it is deeply unfair to the laity across the world. Sure, you can say "go pray it off", it's true that we need to do this, but certain implications of this rift will impact all of us in some way or another.

 

[searn77]

I remember you from before (welcome back, by the way). but no offense, we don't need a schismatic telling us how to properly deal with other schismatics.

How was JasonV telling you how to deal with other "schismatics?" He was just describing what the EP is doing from his POV.

 

[ArmyMatt]

How was JasonV telling you how to deal with other "schismatics?" He was just describing what the EP is doing from his POV.

it'd be akin to me going to the RC forum, and telling a disgruntled Catholic what to do about Pope Francis. my POV as Orthodox adds nothing to their discussion.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

it'd be akin to me going to the RC forum, and telling a disgruntled Catholic what to do about Pope Francis. my POV as Orthodox adds nothing to their discussion.

It should, you're a wise man we should be listening to.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Fr. Matt do you think most of the faithful ignores this? I mean like intercommune and flip off the hierarchy?
I know alot of laywesterners would do so if something occurred in our part of the world.

 

[ArmyMatt]

It should, you're a wise man we should be listening to.

thanks, but I have just been in TAW long enough to have seen how threads like this can get out of hand. it was just an attempt at preventing that.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Fr. Matt do you think most of the faithful ignores this? I mean like intercommune and flip off the hierarchy?
I know alot of laywesterners would do so if something occurred in our part of the world.

if the laity ignore their bishops, they can be excommunicated, so I would hope not.