Church of Constantinople officially recognizes the Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Kiev Patriarchate

[TheLostCoin]

Ecumenical Patriarchate Agrees To Recognize Independence Of Ukrainian Church

"A synod meeting in Istanbul chaired by Patriarch Bartholomew I, who is considered the leader of the 300-million-strong worldwide Orthodox community, or "first among equals" of Eastern Orthodox clerics, decided on October 11 to "proceed to the granting of Autocephaly to the Church of Ukraine."

The synod, however, made sure to warn against violence and attempted property takeovers.

The move, which comes amid a deepening row in Orthodox Christianity over the Ukrainian Church's bid to formally break away from Russia's orbit, was hailed by President Petro Poroshenko as "something that we have dreamed of, waited for a long time, and fought for all the time."

But the Russian Orthodox Church condemned the decision as "catastrophic."

"Today the Patriarchate of Constantinople has made catastrophic decisions -- first and foremost regarding itself and global Orthodoxy," a spokesman for Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill, Aleksandr Volkov, said in televised remarks. "The Patriarchate of Constantinople has crossed a red line."

Earlier, Kirill was quoted as saying that his church will "have to break Eucharistic relations with Constantinople" following the decision."

"O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thine inheritance. Grant victories to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries; and by the virtue of Thy Cross, preserve Thy habitation."

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

I'm afraid I'm not too familiar with the administrative structure of the Orthodox churches; what exactly does this all mean? I was under the impression that Eastern, Greek, Oriental, and all branches of Orthodoxy were led by the same council of bishops, but this sounds like a more severe split.

 

[TheLostCoin]

I'm afraid I'm not too familiar with the administrative structure of the Orthodox churches; what exactly does this all mean? I was under the impression that Eastern, Greek, Oriental, and all branches of Orthodoxy were led by the same council of bishops, but this sounds like a more severe split.

The Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Churches are two completely separate communions of churches, which have different official dogmatic definitions of Christology.

In Eastern Orthodoxy, every Church is run by its own independent administrative structure, with her own Bishops; however, these structures are in Communion with each other and share identical beliefs. If you are under one administrative structure, you can visit another one and receive the Sacraments there.

This schism means that anybody who is under the administrative structure of the Constantinople Church is forbidden from Communion with anybody under the administration of the Russian Orthodox Church, and vice-versa.

This is cataclysmic for the United States, for the Greek Churches, Ukrainian Churches, and Carpatho-Russian (Ruthenian) Churches are under the Ecumenical Patriarch, while the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia is under the administration of the Russian Orthodox Church. The OCA, although it is structurely independent from the Russian Orthodox Church, is not recognized as such by the Ecumenical Patriarch, so the EP's Churches may forbid communion from the OCA.

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

This schism means that anybody who is under the administrative structure of the Constantinople Church is forbidden from Communion with anybody under the administration of the Russian Orthodox Church, and vice-versa.

So is this due to dogmatic differences? Not just this schism in particular, but any of these differences within Orthodoxy.

 

[TheLostCoin]

So is this due to dogmatic differences? Not just this schism in particular, but any of these differences within Orthodoxy.

In the Eastern Orthodox Church, there are no dogmatic differences. Schism can happen due to dogmatic differences, but in this case, it's a debate of jurisdiction - who has authority over the territory of Ukraine.

See the posts in this thread:
Why is there a conflict inside the Church

 

[Barney2.0]

So we officially have a schism in the Orthodox Church.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Lord have mercy!

 

[dzheremi]

Lord have mercy.

 

[gzt]

Well, this will be interesting. Lord have mercy.

 

[~Anastasia~]

So we officially have a schism in the Orthodox Church.

I don't think we do yet at this point.

 

[Barney2.0]

I don't think we do yet at this point.

Eucharistic communion is gone.

 

[Barney2.0]

May the Lord do something.

 

[Barney2.0]

The Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Churches are two completely separate communions of churches, which have different official dogmatic definitions of Christology.

In Eastern Orthodoxy, every Church is run by its own independent administrative structure, with her own Bishops; however, these structures are in Communion with each other and share identical beliefs. If you are under one administrative structure, you can visit another one and receive the Sacraments there.

This schism means that anybody who is under the administrative structure of the Constantinople Church is forbidden from Communion with anybody under the administration of the Russian Orthodox Church, and vice-versa.

This is cataclysmic for the United States, for the Greek Churches, Ukrainian Churches, and Carpatho-Russian (Ruthenian) Churches are under the Ecumenical Patriarch, while the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia is under the administration of the Russian Orthodox Church. The OCA, although it is structurely independent from the Russian Orthodox Church, is not recognized as such by the Ecumenical Patriarch, so the EP's Churches may forbid communion from the OCA.

I think either the Eastern Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox should fix the naming issue that confuses a lot of people into think their all the same Church.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Eucharistic communion is gone.

Until the faithful receive instructions from their hierarchy, I don't think it is.

But regardless, even if that happens - the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. It is our place to pray for her.

Remember - we have had iconoclasm. We have had Arianism nearly take over the Church. We have had all sorts of things through history - the Church remains. It can be difficult in the meantime and we should bear with our brothers and sisters in Christ while it gets sorted out - whether it sorts quickly or takes a very long time.

It is grievous, but God as always is in control. We just don't get to avoid all problems. They usually resolve into something even better than we had before - we should in fact look to God and be grateful for His help.

 

[Hermit76]

One thing that is worse than this situation is the faithful getting worked up over it.

Go to Vespers. Go to Confession. Pray. Go to Divine Liturgy. That's the best thing we can do for this situation.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Eucharistic communion is gone.

it isn't gone. severed between two Sees doesn't mean gone for Orthodoxy.

 

[buzuxi02]

Eucharistic communion is gone.

Probably in a week or two when the Russian synod meet and decide a course of action.

 

[JasonV]

The EP has long sought to be seen as the Pope of the East. [Staff edit].

 

[gzt]

Eucharistic communion is gone.

False.

 

[ArmyMatt]

The EP has long sought to be seen as the Pope of the East.

I remember you from before (welcome back, by the way). but no offense, we don't need a schismatic telling us how to properly deal with other schismatics.