Church Money

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

How do you see money being well spent in your church?

Where/How do you see it possibly not being well used?

Positive: sharing the gospel

Negative: all the rest

 

[Kaneakua]

Even if the pastor spends it gambling, buying beer and goes to strip clubs?

Your choice in that case would be to pray for that "pastor", lovingly confront him with the Word according to proper church discipline, give him an opportunity to repent and get right with God and the Congregation through repentance and restitution, and if he refuses then let him know you are leaving that church. Then leave in peace without spreading gossip to anyone else.

 

[RaymondG]

Money is never the problem. Lack of knowledge and wisdom in regards to money is the problem. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..." good news is that ignorance is curable by actually studying the Word of God and replacing our wrong opinions about money with God's perfect opinion.

Can you share His opinion on money?

 

[Kaneakua]

QUOTE= ]Those two are not doing so good.
There is world wide virus spreading still:
Prosperity Gospel Born in the USA
".... its preachers have exported this deadly virus around the world to places such as Latin America, Africa, Asia, and even Eastern Europe.
This article will briefly trace the origins of the prosperity gospel and suggest some reasons as to why it has prospered in the United States...."[/QUOTE
... ...

The properity gospel is a false gospel - it is instead of Christ, and though men feeeel like it is the way to go, it is deadly./ fatal to faith in Jesus.

Jesus said to Peter: "get behind Me" "because that is thinking after the way of men and not of God" ....

Jesus said not to even give a thought to the worldly concerns - God takes care of those. The whole world worries about food and drink and clothes and roof over head -
Jesus says God knows what we have need of, leave it to Him,
just do what God says, for the Gospel's sake, living by faith.

 

[Kaneakua]

There is no such thing as the "Prosperity Gospel". The Gospel IS prosperity in every way. Before Salvation we all lived poverty, death, and lack. The "Good News" is that we are freed from that existence. If you equate prosperity solely to how your bank account compares with someone else's then you will continue to live in the poverty and lack mindset Christ died to deliver you from. Too many Believers are un-Believers when it has to do with freedom from poverty. Poor is a temporary condition. Poverty is a demonic bondage. We are called to give to and bless the poor, not BE the poor. If we're poor, it should be because we gave our abundance to others. The Poverty Gospel is used by many Christians to justify their laziness to work hard and use their God-given "Power to get wealth" (Deut.8:18)

 

[Kaneakua]

Maybe we should return to the model of the "first church" which occurred quickly after Pentecost, the birthday of the "CHURCH"..The Body of Christ.

Acts of the Apostles 2 (NASB)
42 They were continually devoting themselves
to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship,
to the breaking of bread and
to prayer.

43 Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe;
and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles.
44 And all those who had believed were together and had all things "in common";(COMMUNE!)
45 and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need.
46 Day by day
continuing with one mind in the temple, and
breaking bread from house to house,(fellowship)
they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,
47 praising God and
having favor with all the people.
And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being SAVED.

We

 

[Open Heart]

Money is never the problem. Lack of knowledge and wisdom in regards to money is the problem.

Yes, or perhaps more to the point, "The love of money is the root of all evil."

 

[Kaneakua]

There is no such thing as the "Prosperity Gospel". The Gospel IS prosperity in every way. Before Salvation we all lived poverty, death, and lack. The "Good News" is that we are freed from that existence. If you equate prosperity solely to how your bank account compares with someone else's then you will continue to live in the poverty and lack mindset Christ died to deliver you from. Too many Believers are un-Believers when it has to do with freedom from poverty. Poor is a temporary condition. Poverty is a demonic bondage. We are called to give to and bless the poor, not BE the poor. If we're poor, it should be because we gave our abundance to others. The Poverty Gospel is used by many Christians to justify their laziness to work hard and use their God-given "Power to get wealth" (Deut.8:18)

Maybe we should return to the model of the "first church" which occurred quickly after Pentecost, the birthday of the "CHURCH"..The Body of Christ.

Acts of the Apostles 2 (NASB)
42 They were continually devoting themselves
to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship,
to the breaking of bread and
to prayer.

43 Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe;
and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles.
44 And all those who had believed were together and had all things "in common";(COMMUNE!)
45 and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need.
46 Day by day
continuing with one mind in the temple, and
breaking bread from house to house,(fellowship)
they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,
47 praising God and
having favor with all the people.
And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being SAVED.

Actually, if you want to pattern after the "FIRST CHURCH" you would need to read Acts 7:38 regarding the Church in the Wilderness". This is the prototype Church that the New Testament Christians followed. There was lots of Church government, rulership, required large gatherings, etc. There was also a tremendous amount of tithing, free will giving, building funds, required alms tithes, generous support of the ministry and much more. None of that was ceremonial law that was abolished by Jesus. Rather, the New Testament gospels and Epistles all verify those practice not eliminate them. Of course, if someone already doesn't want to do those things, they can justify it and "save" money. A heart that doesn't want to be generous will find justification even where ther is none. A heart that is generous will find a way to give even when it's not required. We no longer "have to" give, we "get to".

 

[Kaneakua]

Can you share His opinion on money?

I don't know his opinion on money. I DO know God's opinion though. God created it so it must be good. So money is not the problem. How it's used can be.

 

[Paidiske]

God created money? I always thought money was something humans invented to make trade more convenient than straight barter.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Pastor's salary, parsonage, outreach initiatives.

 

[Kaneakua]

Can you share His opinion on money?

I'm so sorry. I think I may have misunderstood who you were referring to by "His". I thought you were meaning the person whose comment I was replying to. If you were meaning "God's " opinion, I do know that. There are over 25,000 scripture references to money, wealth, and giving so I can't dissect each one. However I can say that of all His teachings, Jesus taught the most on money issues because they are central to revealing where a man's loyalties are. "Where your treasure is there your heart will be also." Money and worship were the two things Lucifer coveted. Eventually, they took God's place in his heart, pride came in because of his love of himself, and his love of riches gave him the distinction of being a "thief from the beginning". (Read ISA. 14:12-14, and Ezek. 28:14-18 "trafficking" and "Mechandising". Both have to do with money and commerce. Look up Hebrew definitions of those terms.). Worship and wealth are the same two things the Church fights about out of ignorance today. Both are super important to understand and flow in wisely otherwise it will destroy people the same way it destroyed Lucifer. Used properly it will bring glory to the Lord. Interestingly, the first use of the word "glory" in the Bible is properly translated as "wealth" (Gen. 31:1). When we SAY we are to give God all the Glory, it means "all the wealth". So it's good to have as much as He wants to pour out on us so we can give it back to Him. I got tons more because the Bible has tons more. Cool stuff! Been broke and been wealthy. Wealthy is better!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

As in "woe to you who are rich now, for you have been comforted";
"blessed are the poor, for you will be comforted"
etc
etc

 

[Kaneakua]

God created money? I always thought money was something humans invented to make trade more convenient than straight barter.

 

[Kaneakua]

So sorry! Had trouble with the "reply" feature for some reason. OH WELL!
Anyway, from what I can find in scripture humans have never created anything. Eccl. 1:9 "The thing that has been, it is that which shall be...there is no new thing under the sun." Money is a medium of wealth. All wealth originated from God. The first use of the term "glory" is in Gen. 31:1 and is translated as "wealth" in Hebrew. Giving God the "Glory" is giving Him our wealth which we could only have in the first place, if God gave it to us. Ezek. 28:12-18 deals with Lucifer's sins and ties them to self worship and to "trafficking" and "merchandising" both of which are monetary terms having to do with revenue derived from business activities. "He was a thief from the beginning" is how Jesus described Satan. He stole money that belonged to God because he had a "love of money" which is the root of all evil. Even Lucifer's. (By the way, printed paper is NOT money! Read the Constitution. ONLY silver and gold coin minted by Congress is considered lawful money in the USA. Would you rather have a ten dollar bill or a ten dollar gold piece? Paper money is what the Bible calls "unequal weights and measures" and God call that an abomination. God says "the gold is mine and the silver is mine", not the paper. Paper currency represents debt not wealth.) Lots more but nuff said for now.

 

[Paidiske]

By the way, printed paper is NOT money! Read the Constitution. ONLY silver and gold coin minted by Congress is considered lawful money in the USA.

Not all of us are in America...

I guess I see your point, in that money really just represents an agreement of value between people.

But I disagree that humans have never created anything. Our creativity is bound by the laws of nature God set in place, so you could say God created the potential for it, but we are made in the image of God... and creativity is part of that.

 

[Kaneakua]

As in "woe to you who are rich now, for you have been comforted";
"blessed are the poor, for you will be comforted"
etc
etc

Taken out of whole Bible context this would be misinterpreted on its own. Jesus clarifies that He is referring to those who are poor in Spirit and, in many cases, those who are poor because those God has given His money to have not distributed it to those in legitimate need. He's definitely NOT talking about the bums and drug addict homeless as being blessed. God commands us to WORK and He will bless the WORK of our hands. Most of the great patriarchs of scripture were the richest people in the world. Adam originally was given rulership of ALL creation. Abraham, Jacob, Job, Joseph, David, Solomon, High Priests and Levites, Jesus Himself (had a treasurer just to handle His alms money!) all of these notable people were extremely wealthy and blessed. God never condemned them for their wealth. The wicked servant who didn't increase the talent (90 lbs. of gold worth over $1,000,000) was punished! His master MADE HIM TOTALLY POOR! That was not a blessing. The rich He was speaking to were those who rejected and opposed Him. They were not Believers. Jesus condemned those who would TRUST in riches (worship) and those "who would be rich). That speaks of their focus in life. Money is a magnifier. If someone is a worshipper of God it will be used for that kind of worship. If a person worships money or himself the money will magnify that as well. Fear of money gives it power greater than God over someone's mind. Fear is faith in the power of evil.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Not.

 

[Kaneakua]

Not all of us are in America...

I guess I see your point, in that money really just represents an agreement of value between people.

But I disagree that humans have never created anything. Our creativity is bound by the laws of nature God set in place, so you could say God created the potential for it, but we are made in the image of God... and creativity is part of that.

The Bible never attributes creativity to fallen man and money was used by mankind after the fall. To "create" in Biblical terms is to bring into being out of nothing. Man cannot do that. He can only build with what God has already revealed through our 5 senses. Even our imaginations are limited to what we have experienced through our senses. So if we have experienced it that means that it already was. We didn't create it. We may come up with something different by combining things in a new way but we cannot create matter or elements that don't already exist in some form. Even our imaginations are limited to our input received by prior experiences.

 

[Curtis.Hilliker]

How accountable are your churches to their members. The church I attend has 4 quarterly church meetings for members only. Apart from reports from the different church departments, ( sunday school, different aged youth groups, evangelism etc) there is a financial report with handouts showing last years budget, this years income and expenditre and this years budget figures.
Part of this report details all major purcheses or expenditure and any proposed purchase ie, church hall roof needs major repairs, estimates of cost are ????? and the meeting votes on whether to pay for those repairs/purchases/hiring of staff etc.

If your church is not open about major expenditure or is wasting money and not accounting for it. Protest, verbaly and in writing if it is not resolved, leave.

We get an anual report that breaks everything down, where it all went.