Church History

[Rhamiel]

The amateur archaeologist/historian in me would say go back in time far enough and the trunk would converge.

well we all came from Adam and Eve

so they all start from the same people if you go back far enough

 

[Targaryen]

well we all came from Adam and Eve

so they all start from the same people if you go back far enough

Adam and Eve as the literal reading of the bible suggests?

Or the metaphorical meaning of Adam and Even that most biblical scholars in this day and age suggest?

If you're going to toss out Adam and Eve, helps to clairify your interpretation.

 

[Rhamiel]

Adam and Eve as the literal reading of the bible suggests?

Or the metaphorical meaning of Adam and Even that most biblical scholars in this day and age suggest?

If you're going to toss out Adam and Eve, helps to clairify your interpretation.

Adam and Eve as our first parents who were created in a state of friendship with God and then broke that friendship bringing spiritual death

I am not a "metaphorical human" so my earliest ancestor was not a metaphor either

 

[Targaryen]

See....that's where you and I and a lot of Christians these days, diverge.

Adam and Eve, is nothing but a metaphor and allegory for the human condition of falling away from God, or explaining the differences in the sexes or even in how we as humans came about.

Therefore, I can't continue debating with you on this point as your declaration is IMO rather too literal and therefore you aren't open to debate on this.

 

[Standing Up]

Adam and Eve as our first parents who were created in a state of friendship with God and then broke that friendship bringing spiritual death

I am not a "metaphorical human" so my earliest ancestor was not a metaphor either

 

[Restoresmysoul]

See....that's where you and I and a lot of Christians these days, diverge.

Adam and Eve, is nothing but a metaphor and allegory for the human condition of falling away from God, or explaining the differences in the sexes or even in how we as humans came about.

Therefore, I can't continue debating with you on this point as your declaration is IMO rather too literal and therefore you aren't open to debate on this.

Consider this question- If Adam didn't exist then where did we come from? And why does the bible trace David, Moses, Noah and Even the Lord back to Adam? Are these men only metaphors?

 

[Targaryen]

Consider this question- If Adam didn't exist then where did we come from? And why does the bible trace David, Moses, Noah and Even the Lord back to Adam? Are these men only metaphors?

Theistic evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please, when trying to debate a point...it helps when you don't have a flat Creationist outlook.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

My only point is that if Adam didn't exist then the bible is a lie. I must believe that Adam existed because the bible teaches us that Abraham and the Lord came from Adam. Isn't this what the bible records?

 

[Targaryen]

My only point is that if Adam didn't exist then the bible is a lie. I must believe that Adam existed because the bible teaches us that Abraham and the Lord came from Adam. Isn't this what the bible records?

And my point is, rather then saying that the creation story is a lie, as Creations always rally to when they can't rationalize the Biblical narrative in a less literalistic way when confronted by evolutionary science, what if the author of Genesis was using the allegory of the text to convey the spiritual and therefore far more relevant truths to the reader?

Now, rather then going off topic even more, can we get back to the actual topic?

 

[Restoresmysoul]

And my point is, rather then saying that the creation story is a lie, as Creations always rally to when they can't rationalize the Biblical narrative in a less literalistic way when confronted by evolutionary science, what if the author of Genesis was using the allegory of the text to convey the spiritual and therefore far more relevant truths to the reader?

Now, rather then going off topic even more, can we get back to the actual topic?

The relevant truth is simple, Adam and Eve were real and we came from them. Surely you must believe that in the beginning God created at least one man and woman, correct? Or do you instead believe that God created a whole tribe of people at one time? It seems that it must be either one or the other. I choose to believe the biblical account of Adam and Eve as factual, it makes sense. Science must also believe that mankind had a beginning, Science must believe that we came from a source and didn't merely come into existence without a reasonable explanation, correct? So science actually supports the possibility of Adam and Eve.

 

[Targaryen]

The relevant truth is simple, Adam and Eve were real and we came from them. Surely you must believe that in the beginning God created at least one man and woman, correct? Or do you instead believe that God created a whole tribe of people at one time? It seems that it must be either one or the other. I choose to believe the biblical account of Adam and Eve as factual, it makes sense. Science must also believe that mankind had a beginning, Science must believe that we came from a source and didn't merely come into existence without a reasonable explanation, correct? So science actually supports the possibility of Adam and Eve.

Not word for word as the Bible describes it and not 6000 years ago...think maybe 1,000,000 years ago +

Now can we get back to the actual topic?

 

[rockytopva]

Mankind has been on this earth no longer thah 6,400 years...

 

[rockytopva]

Mankind has been on this earth no longer thah 6,400 years...

 

[Restoresmysoul]

Not word for word as the Bible describes it and not 6000 years ago...think maybe 1,000,000 years ago +

Now can we get back to the actual topic?

I thought this thread was about Church history? Adam and Eve seem to be relevant and you brought them into this discussion, im only responding. If we were created one million years ago then we would have a lot more recorded history than we currently have. In the beginning God created mankind, not a million years later, and man is not so stupid that it took him one million years to learn how to write and record history. However, I've stated my opinion and I have no more to say about it. Thanks for listening.

 

[Harbingr]

I am looking for info on Church History, from the time of Christ's resurrection until now. Such things as how the churches have changed through the centuries. There is the Reformation Movement, Pentecostal/Charismatic Movement and Emergent Movement.

Interests are why they changed, where the denominations came from, such as Baptists, etc. Looking for charts, books, websites with good info.

Also looking for charts and info on the bible translations and why they changed through the centuries as well.

You will also see this thread in the Messianic section as well. I am trying to gain info on both sides of the coin. Looking on Messianic as well as the Christian perspective.

No debates please.

Moriah Ruth

I've met Pentecostals, at a youth group ran by a youth- a newly taught preacher straight out of college.

And you know what?

Him and myself, despite being so different in doctrine, have become best friends.
He asked me if I wanted to preach and I said I couldn't, because I am simply too zealous of the Church- it simply is not my place.

 

[Rhamiel]

Theistic evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please, when trying to debate a point...it helps when you don't have a flat Creationist outlook.

I am open to Theistic Evolution

I described Adam and Eve as our first ancestors,
I did not elaborate on if Adam and Eve were created from a pile of earth and a rib or if they were created through millennia of evolution

I said that they brought spiritual death to mankind through disobedience to God
I did not say if there was physical death before that.

I tend to not argue about the details
but I never call Adam and Eve just a metaphor
we had to have had "first humans"
and as a Christian, I believe that they were created in a state of spiritual freedom and spiritual wholeness that they, through their own choice, harmed through disobedience to God

I do not look down on Creationists
I think, unless we have good reason to do otherwise, we should assume that the Bible is being literal
now there are things like Apocalyptic literature like the prophecies in the Book of Daniel and Revelation of St. John, because that style is highly symbolic in nature we should not be overly literalistic
then there are books like the Gospels which are much more literal (parables excluded of course)
Genesis falls somewhere between those two

 

[Targaryen]

I am open to Theistic Evolution

I described Adam and Eve as our first ancestors,
I did not elaborate on if Adam and Eve were created from a pile of earth and a rib or if they were created through millennia of evolution

I said that they brought spiritual death to mankind through disobedience to God
I did not say if there was physical death before that.

I tend to not argue about the details
but I never call Adam and Eve just a metaphor
we had to have had "first humans"
and as a Christian, I believe that they were created in a state of spiritual freedom and spiritual wholeness that they, through their own choice, harmed through disobedience to God

I do not look down on Creationists
I think, unless we have good reason to do otherwise, we should assume that the Bible is being literal
now there are things like Apocalyptic literature like the prophecies in the Book of Daniel and Revelation of St. John, because that style is highly symbolic in nature we should not be overly literalistic
then there are books like the Gospels which are much more literal (parables excluded of course)
Genesis falls somewhere between those two

Fair enough, but that's why i asked you to elaborate in your meaning on Adam and Eve, I cannot rationalize creationism in this modern age when we have evidence that indicates a completely different story to the creation of the universe and us then the word for word,non-allegorical interpretation of the Biblical narrative.

Hence also another good reason why I didn't want to go down this route, I find that as been shown, one that topic is breached, it drives any topic away from it's main points.

My reasoning for bringing that up is that yes, at some point in time, the trunk of the religion tree as GxG(g2) has given us, will converge if you go back in time far enough...how far is unknown exactly however.

 

[Rhamiel]

Fair enough, but that's why i asked you to elaborate in your meaning on Adam and Eve, I cannot rationalize creationism in this modern age when we have evidence that indicates a completely different story to the creation of the universe and us then the word for word,non-allegorical interpretation of the Biblical narrative.

Hence also another good reason why I didn't want to go down this route, I find that as been shown, one that topic is breached, it drives any topic away from it's main points.

My reasoning for bringing that up is that yes, at some point in time, the trunk of the religion tree as GxG(g2) has given us, will converge if you go back in time far enough...how far is unknown exactly however.

have you tried the mental exorcise known as "double think"?
it is described in 1984 as holding two contradictory ideas at the same time
remembering one when it is needed, forgetting it when it is not needed and even forgetting the act of consciously forgetting it

like this post, after I post it, I will not even remember that I posted it
you can quote me, I can read what you had to say and maybe even respond accordingly and then just go back to the state of not remembering this

lol I am just kidding.....
or am I ?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

... the trunk of the religion tree as GxG(g2) has given us, will converge if you go back in time far enough...how far is unknown exactly however.

The roots of the tree are automatically going to far back into time - the farthest we can go being based on how much we're aware of - many speculating that world religions really started to begin in the era of Noah after the Flood and the Tower of Babel (from which Nimrod arose to change the shape of the world after establishing Babylon alongside the worship of Ishtar and others - with his system of worship impacting the worship given before the Lord even into the time of Abraham).

Of course, we'll only be able to see once we're in heaven the full scope of history. Till then, we can know for certain that religions have always intersected - with those following the Lord impacted at every turn when it comes to the history of God's people....

[URL="https://lc017.wordpress.com/tag/religion-tree/"]

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And really, if wanting to have a basis for knowing how and where things may have merged, the Abrahamic faith (beginning in Genesis 12 and Genesis 11 - continued from Genesis 4 from the era where men around the world simply called on the name of the Lord universally - global consciousness of Theism and belief in One God as the way) t....that is the root of many of the world religions and what sprung from them in their own spheres.

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[Gxg (G²)]

The trunk's threads never converge.

The trunk's threads intertwine - which show connection and proximity. But indeed, never converging is significant.