Church History

[Rhamiel]

That's not so. "Bias" rules out neutrality.


I don't think so. It simply avoids taking sides on the many schisms and splits of history...and since there are always two sides of the story as to who was right and who was wrong about these events, that approach both makes sense and serves the inquirer who is using the chart better.



...and you would prefer that we use a chart that shows the Roman Catholic Church to have been the one and original church and also the "right one" in every split thereafter. Whether or not that is even what the chart is supposed to illustrate. And that's what you would call "unbiased. Yeh, I get it.

well if a chart is showing something as being "neutral" when it the objective facts show that not everything is "even" or "neutral" then the chart is biased

if there was a chart that identified the Roman Catholic Church as the same as the Apostolic Early Church and then everyone else broke off of the RCC, well that would not be "unbiased"
but it would be open about its bias, and you could judge it with that in mind
far more insidious are the sources that claim no bias

Albion, I am sure you have experienced similar things GT
a Non-Denominational Christian will claim that his idea is not from any man made theology but rather a "plain and simple reading of the Bible"
while you, as an educated Christian, recognize his view as being from an unliturgical, unsacramental school of thought that has its roots in the Radical Reformation and has grown in complexity over the last century or so.

This is not to say that the man is right or wrong
but it does show him to be influenced by more then just the Bible

same with how this chart is influenced by more then just history

both are conforming to a world view
not saying that it is right or wrong, I am just saying that the sooner we are honest about our own bias the sooner we can examine them and learn if they are correct or not

 

[Albion]

well if a chart is showing something as being "neutral" when it the objective facts show that not everything is "even" or "neutral" then the chart is biased

Not necessarily. It's just not biased in your favor. That's what you're really after, isn't it?

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Lutheranism really deserves its own branch, if one is constructing a tree of church history . A generic "protestantism" will not do. In some ways, Lutheranism was more of a real via media between Protestantism and Catholicism, similar to Anglicanism but focused less on institutions and more on the doctrinal content of the faith.

Good stuff, I completely agree. It's equally unfair to both Lutheranism and the Reformed, too, since the Reformed movement was quite independent of Lutheranism until the second- and third-generation cross-fertilization, and afterwards developed on its own.

I like Justo Gonzalez's works on church history.

Me too! I especially like his three volume history of Christian thought. His two-volume history of Christianity has, in many ways I think, been superseded by Diarmaid McCulloch's.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I am looking for info on Church History, from the time of Christ's resurrection until now. Such things as how the churches have changed through the centuries.

Would be good to see some charts of the history of the Black Church (more shared on it in #229 - as well as the history of blacks in the OT/NT in #14 /#16 ) - but if interested, here are some sources I was able to find on it:

• God In America: The Black Church | PBS
• Summary of The History of the Negro Church
• African American Church History - Christian Timelines
• Black Churches, Black Theology and American History - PBS
• Africans in America| Part 3 | Narrative: The Black Church - PBS
• Black Christianity Before the Civil War: Christian History Timeline ...

Always amazing when going back and considering the extensive amount of ways that the slaves, in their example, were so in line with the Spirit of how things were done in the Early Church /Ancient Faith.....and what the prophets of the OT/NT preached on when it came to suffering for the Lord/righteousness and looking unto Him for deliverance. The book An Unbroken Circle: Linking Ancient African Christianity to the African-American Experience (more here) is one of the best historical reads present (if not the best) which helps to break that down - by Fr Moses Berry ( curator of the Ozarks Afro-American Heritage Museum and rector of Theotokos “Unexpected Joy” Orthodox Church in Ask Grove, Missouri).

​

Upon its publication in 1997, An Unbroken Circle: Linking Ancient African Christianity to the African-American Experience, broke new ground in Orthodox writing. And many people have found this book to be an invaluable resource, both for personal growth and for Orthodox outreach as well as general understanding of the ways the Body of Christ came together....

​

Why I Sing Amazing Grace: The African-American Worship ExperIENCE

The History of The Black Church - The Beginning

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

GXG,

Thank you. I never even thought of the Black Church and how they had started. Thank you for sharing the thought.

Moriah Ruth

 

[Gxg (G²)]

GXG,

Thank you. I never even thought of the Black Church and how they had started. Thank you for sharing the thought.

Moriah Ruth

Not a problem, Sister Moriah

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Looking for charts, books, websites with good info.

Saw this excellent chart recently that blessed me a lot - and I think it'll come in handy for you as well. It's specifically on the issue of Church history - as well as global history of religions that the Church has interacted with. Very extensive (in Tree Format) and I do hope it comes in handy....

​

 

[Root of Jesse]

Saw this excellent chart recently that blessed me a lot - and I think it'll come in handy for you as well. It's specifically on the issue of Church history - as well as global history of religions that the Church has interacted with. Very extensive (in Tree Format) and I do hope it comes in handy....

​

I only wish I could print the whole thing and be able to read it. It's pretty awesome, though I did see some errors in it. But that doesn't surprise me.

 

[Rhamiel]

Saw this excellent chart recently that blessed me a lot - and I think it'll come in handy for you as well. It's specifically on the issue of Church history - as well as global history of religions that the Church has interacted with. Very extensive (in Tree Format) and I do hope it comes in handy....

​

wow that is amazing

 

[MoreCoffee]

I want to draw my own chart

something like

Jesus Christ ----> Apostolic church ----> Early church -----> ...... -----> bunch of crazies with a billion churches

 

[Standing Up]

I only wish I could print the whole thing and be able to read it. It's pretty awesome, though I did see some errors in it. But that doesn't surprise me.

Like it's presenting the idea that all religions source to the same God?

 

[Rhamiel]

Like it's presenting the idea that all religions source to the same God?

the chart does not make any claims about who is worshiped in each religion or which religion is correct

this just shows when different religions developed over time
it does not say if that development came from God, or Devil, or from human innovation

just a time line

 

[Standing Up]

the chart does not make any claims about who is worshiped in each religion or which religion is correct

this just shows when different religions developed over time
it does not say if that development came from God, or Devil, or from human innovation

just a time line

No tree of life idea there, eh? Same trunk, different branches, all equal?

Oh well ...

 

[Standing Up]

I want to draw my own chart

something like

Jesus Christ ----> Apostolic church ----> Early church -----> ...... -----> bunch of crazies with a billion churches

Now we're drawing the right picture by clarifying Christ Son of God that other religions disagree.

Christ ---->apostles---->believers

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I only wish I could print the whole thing and be able to read it. It's pretty awesome, though I did see some errors in it. But that doesn't surprise me.

Obviously, no chart is ever complete or capturing all the aspects of how history flows (and the influences that caused it to go a certain way) - but some charts capture more than others. That said, if you felt there were errors in it, it's always a good thing to share so that there are considerations for charts in the future that can be kept in mind.

But indeed, I concur with you that it's an awesome chart. As another noted best on the issue (for a brief excerpt):

It’s fascinating especially to see how the many branches of Christianity have interacted as compared with the other religions of the world.

For example, the Methodist branch stems from the John Wesley Reform. Here’s that segment, though I’m not sure of its complete accuracy (I don’t see the Evangelical United Brethren on that chart, for example). Regardless, you can see the myriad of churches and offshoots of the Wesleyan movement that came about, including Pentecostalism, from just one man. Amazing!

In fact, when you click on it and scroll to it, you see that the graphic claims that the John Wesley Reform was a convergence of two traditions: The Church of England AND a group I had never heard of called the Waldenses. What? Here’s some information about it. ​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

wow that is amazing

It takes awhile to go through...but it's worth it.

the chart does not make any claims about who is worshiped in each religion or which religion is correct

this just shows when different religions developed over time
it does not say if that development came from God, or Devil, or from human innovation

just a time line

Indeed - and historically, even for camps trusting in Christ, there's no avoiding the fact that they developed alongside other religions and those religions often influenced the shape of how certain camps within Christendom developed. We can see some of this (as a basic example) when it comes to iconoclasm and the ways Islam shaped many of the reactions within the Early Church due to its stance against images - with that shifting as time went on....while we can see how Paganism in the Western part of the Roman Empire shaped the development of the Church when it came to others converting to Arianism among the Goths - and with what occurred in Japan, the Assyrian Church of the East was shaped greatly in its missionary endeavors by the surrounding cultures of Shintoism and Taoism that were present religions they sought to witness to - regardless of the persecution that arose from it...or the ressurgence of other religions to compete with Christianity. We also see the same dynamics arising when it comes to African Christianity impacted by religions like Aminism - or Indigenious forms of worship starting from adaptation or Native American culture and what occurred with Christianity impacting them in differing ways - with many things done in the name of Christianity being shaped by things like Unitarianism and other social and economic forces and differing religious views, just as it is today with the effects still felt with American Exceptionalism developing into a religion in its own right when combined with Christian language. Even the differing forms of Judaism that developed into the time of Christ were shaped by other religions - from the religions of the Cannanites to the Babylonian era to the era of the Persians, the Greek cultures (as it concerns Hellenized Judaism) and later Roman....and today with Zionism impacting how Judaism (or Messianic Judaism, for that matter) is practiced within Israel and around the world. The list goes on as it concerns how religions and Christianity have always impacted one another in one way or another.

That said, I'm glad the tree chart was made like it was - it is indeed expansive..and as others have noted, I'm glad for the Russian site which has a detailed (even if inevitably not comprehensive) family tree of religions.

And if nothing else, it shows the ways that all of humanity is interconnected in one way or another - we are all global neighbors who impact each other regardless of the side of the street we're on. As others said best, independence is truly a myth

​

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

No tree of life idea there, eh? Same trunk, different branches, all equal?

Oh well ...

Why do you feel the need to assume the worst? The trunk's threads never converge.

 

[rockytopva]

My take is that they unraveled in ages...

The seven churches...

1. The Ephesan Candlestick[FONT=&quot]:[/FONT]The Apostolic Church Age
2. The Smyrnaean Candlestick:The Martyr Church Age (Timothy)
3. The Pergamean Candlestick[FONT=&quot]: T[/FONT]he Towers Church Age (Constantine)
4. The Thyatirean Candlestick[FONT=&quot]: [/FONT]Catholic Church Age (Charlemagne)
5. The Sardisean Candlestick[FONT=&quot]: [/FONT]The Reformed Church Age (John Wycliff)
6. The Philadelphian Candlestick: The Revived Church Age (John Wesley)
7. The Laodicean Candlestick The Material Church Age (Dwight L Moody)

1. Ephesus – Apostolic – Leaving the first love… “All they which are in Asia be turned away from me…” – II Timothy 1:15
2. Smyrna – Martyrs – Persecutions ten days… Foxes Book of Martyrs describes ten Roman persecutions.
3. Pergamos – Orthodox – A pyrgos is a fortified structure – Needed for the dark ages.
4. Thyatira – Catholic – The Spirit of Jezebel is to persecute, control, and to dominate. This spirit can invade any church!
5. Sardis – Protestant – A sardius is a gem, elegant yet hard and rigid. Doctrine in the head, little in the heart.
6. Philadelphia – Methodist – To obtain sanctification was to do so with love.
7. Laodicea – Charismatic – Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing? From hot ---> lukewarm ---> cold?

So we have issues in each age. Todays Laodiceans want the comfort zone where they can build a life around us four and no more!

 

[WisdomTree]

Who revived this thread?

 

[Targaryen]

Why do you feel the need to assume the worst? The trunk's threads never converge.

The amateur archaeologist/historian in me would say go back in time far enough and the trunk would converge.