Church Hierarchy

[Achilles6129]

"28 And God has [r]appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of [t]miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts." 1 Cor. 12:28-31 (NASB)

Where is this hierarchy present in any church denomination today?

 

[Winken]

The Pastor-Teacher is present in each Christian assembly. As to the others, some are called elders or deacons. Paul cautions the Corinthians to not get the idea that everyone is called to one or all of these professions. Only the Holy Spirit can enlighten each individual Christian.

 

[christianforumsuser]

What if I outrank someone of another denomination... it's funny or maybe rather frustrating that some people can't take some advice or pointing out a problem

 

[Winken]

What if I outrank someone of another denomination... it's funny or maybe rather frustrating that some people can't take some advice or pointing out a problem

"Outrank?"

 

[christianforumsuser]

I don't know everything. Hopefully I know what I know...if it's according to Scripture
Some people are so carnal and arrogant. Such high standing as if everyone is so beneath you. Look what happened to the children generations after the Pharisees. I bet they dressed nice and were lovely in some view
What kind of prophet and tongues? Which apostle...what types and specifics

In a way people can be said to be not much more than another man
But in another way some have more age and experience...or in some area of specialty.
Context. Rank has its context even if some refuse to acknowledge they're not perfect and lie

 

[Episaw]

The Pastor-Teacher is present in each Christian assembly. As to the others, some are called elders or deacons. Paul cautions the Corinthians to not get the idea that everyone is called to one or all of these professions. Only the Holy Spirit can enlighten each individual Christian.

In these verses, there is no mention of pastors, elders or deacons and they are not professions, they are ministries.

 

[Episaw]

What if I outrank someone of another denomination... it's funny or maybe rather frustrating that some people can't take some advice or pointing out a problem

You cannot outrank anyone as all ministries in the body of Christ are servant ministries. if it is not, I suggest the person resigns immediately because they are in the wrong job.

I have been in leadership of churches and para-church ministries and have only been adressed by my first name. I was on the verge of being appointed Deputy Director of one para-church ministry and the denomination said I had to be addressed as pastor like everyone else in ministry in the denomination so I turned it down as it was not the truth.

The Very Reverend Bishop Dr. Smith is a load of baloney.

 

[Episaw]

"28 And God has [r]appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of [t]miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts." 1 Cor. 12:28-31 (NASB)

Where is this hierarchy present in any church denomination today?

Eph 4:11 And indeed He gave some to be apostles; and some prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors and teachers; with a view to the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ,

I have got a feeling that in their haste to embed denomination rule and doctrine, most of them have missed the point of these verses.

God in his wisdom recorded these ministries in the order that they would be needed in establishing a church. Of course, the apostle would come first because they were the ministries that went out to preach the gospel and establish new churches.

They were aided and abetted by the prophets and the building of the church was continued by the evangelist who preached the gospel once the apostle and prophet had moved on.

To keep things moving along and spiritual growth happening the shepherd and teacher came into play for this purpose.

But as the verses say, all of the ministries are needed to perfect the saints and for the work of ministry. The fact that we ignore four of these ministries most of the time is good reason why the church hobbles about on crutches.

 

[Albion]

"28 And God has [r]appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of [t]miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts." 1 Cor. 12:28-31 (NASB)

Where is this hierarchy present in any church denomination today?

Some of the evangelical churches try to follow this kind of format, but it's not really about a 'hierarchy' of ministers. It's about a diversity of roles played by different people in the church. The New Testament hierarchy is bishop, elder/presbyter, deacon.

 

[Episaw]

Some of the evangelical churches try to follow this kind of format, but it's not really about a 'hierarchy' of ministers. It's about a diversity of roles played by different people in the church. The New Testament hierarchy is bishop, elder/presbyter, deacon.

Actually, bishop and elder is one and the same and as I said there is no hierarchy as all ministries are servant ministries.

In one church I was the leader, call him what you will, never sat down to a fellowship meal until everyone else was seated and had a meal in front of them.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Eastern Orthodox still have all of these.

Forgive me...

 

[christianforumsuser]

You lack understanding and an ear. Some people have more authority than others in certain places. So in that regard itself I do outrank some people.
Or maybe rank isn't the right word in that case. But still, yes, there's rank. And lots of countries and states and denominations and doctrines. There's order.

 

[christianforumsuser]

Equality doesn't mean chaos.

Do you remember what happened to the heavens and the Roman empire?
Israel wasn't so big. Lots of places didn't recognize heavenly order or words.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

All members of clergy are equal. They just have different jobs. For instance, I am ordained, but my position is to READ and TEACH.

Is The Holy Spirit different? No, same.

Forgive me...

 

[christianforumsuser]

Of course there's equality, but also positions and duties yes. If someone in one part of the world or organization isn't doing their job right there's a big problem

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

These different jobs are used as training steps for those who will go on to different orders. Readers become Sub-deacons, who become Deacons, who become Presbyters, who become Bishops.

By the time one is appointed to be a Bishop, he should be able to recite the entire psalms from memory.

Forgive me...

 

[christianforumsuser]

Perhaps that's a prerequisite and gauge in that place
In other places it's important to be humble and listen when someone warns of a problem. In which case I've dealt with lots of people who talk about their credentials and are so content with their wealth and sinning that they don't even want to hear anything different

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Okay, remember there are two sides. Liturgically, they are equal. Administration, which is a man made governing system is a different side.

Forgive me...

 

[christianforumsuser]

In heaven, if they even get there, there could be equality but differences in each member yes.
While on earth people better listen if they're already on track for heaven or not, else if I carry some important feedback that isn't soothsaying sweet as they're used to, there's nothing I can do for such people who are in such high places. As if they outrank me and are holier, even so much to not hear anything contrary from the Bible itself. In which case it wouldn't be me who outranks them nor them me, but God's Word I'd tell them but they don't like the Word. So then I clearly outrank them even as they refuse, because I have the Word and they refuse it. There's a big problem, but they like carnal lifestyle. I've been reasonable, not that I say this loudly, but I can't be any more polite except to avoid it else I'll have to tell them if I see some things happening.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

In heaven, if they even get there, there could be equality but differences in each member yes.
While on earth people better listen if they're already on track for heaven or not, else if I carry some important feedback that isn't soothsaying sweet as they're used to, there's nothing I can do for such people who are in such high places. As if they outrank me and are holier, even so much to not hear anything contrary from the Bible itself. In which case it wouldn't be me who outranks them nor them me, but God's Word I'd tell them but they don't like the Word. So then I clearly outrank them even as they refuse, because I have the Word and they refuse it. There's a big problem, but they like carnal lifestyle. I've been reasonable, not that I say this loudly, but I can't be any more polite except to avoid it else I'll have to tell them if I see some things happening.

Most everyone thinks they have it right. Good thing God doesnt measure us that way.

Forgive me...