Church discipline for morbidly obese

[Thomas White]

My guess is that you really didn't mean what you actually posted. To give you an example which I cited on another thread here, there was an infamous gangster in the 1930's who attended a religious revival meeting and professed the Christian faith as a result. However, he continued along happily in his former lifestyle. When confronted about his lifestyle by other Christians, he said that he assuredly did not see any problems with it. After all, there were Christian actors and actresses who did things he himself would not imagine doing. Thus, murder and extortion, in his view, were part and parcel of his Christian faith.

If the church did not take action, then you can be certain that the government did. Personally, I would rather receive the rebuke for my sin from the church than a judge in a courtroom.

The difference is the law of the land and the law of God. He faced justice for breaking a worldly law. It was between him and God whether or not he faced justice in the afterlife.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The difference is the law of the land and the law of God. He faced justice for breaking a worldly law. It was between him and God whether or not he faced justice in the afterlife.

That is a decidedly antinomian view.

 

[Thomas White]

That is a decidedly antinomian view.

Definitely not. Christians are accountable to both God and worldly law unless the two conflict. The 1930s gangster violated both. The government dealt with worldly justice. God dealt with heavenly justice. Other Christians had no role in the latter.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Definitely not. Christians are accountable to both God and worldly law unless the two conflict. The 1930s gangster violated both. The government dealt with worldly justice. God dealt with heavenly justice. Other Christians had no role in the latter.

Please tell me what part of the definition of antinomian does not apply to your assertions.

antinomian
[ˌan(t)ēˈnōmēən]
ADJECTIVE

1. relating to the view that Christians are released by grace from the obligation of observing the moral law.

NOUN

1. a person holding antinomian beliefs.

 

[Thomas White]

Please tell me what part of the definition of antinomian does not apply to your assertions.

antinomian
[ˌan(t)ēˈnōmēən]
ADJECTIVE

1. relating to the view that Christians are released by grace from the obligation of observing the moral law.

NOUN

1. a person holding antinomian beliefs.

None of it. I literally just wrote that he was accountable to the law.

 

[bbbbbbb]

None of it. I literally just wrote that he was accountable to the law.

Which law? The antinomian position maintains that a Christian is under no obligation to the Law (moral or otherwise). Are you, yourself, under obligation to God's law(s) and, if so, which ones?

 

[Thomas White]

Which law? The antinomian position maintains that a Christian is under no obligation to the Law (moral or otherwise). Are you, yourself, under obligation to God's law(s) and, if so, which ones?

As I stated above, we are accountable to both God's law and the law of man.

 

[bbbbbbb]

As I stated above, we are accountable to both God's law and the law of man.

Are you personally accountable to obeying every commandment given in the entire Bible?

 

[Thomas White]

Are you personally accountable to obeying every commandment given in the entire Bible?

No, of course not. None of us are.

 

[bbbbbbb]

No, of course not. None of us are.

Okay, you are not responsible for obeying God's law as revealed in the Bible. How do you, then, define the "God's law" which you do obey?

 

[Thomas White]

Okay, you are not responsible for obeying God's law as revealed in the Bible. How do you, then, define the "God's law" which you do obey?

Neither you nor I are responsible for the law of Moses. Christ set us free from the law. Our salvation does not come from it. I follow the words of Christ.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Neither you nor I are responsible for the law of Moses. Christ set us free from the law. Our salvation does not come from it. I follow the words of Christ.

Fine. Do you consider the "words of Christ" to be synonymous with "God's law"?

 

[Thomas White]

Fine. Do you consider the "words of Christ" to be synonymous with "God's law"?

Yes.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes.

I assume this also includes the following:

Mark 12:28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Have you loved the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength? Are you loving your neighbor as yourself?

 

[Thomas White]

I assume this also includes the following:

Mark 12:28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Have you loved the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength? Are you loving your neighbor as yourself?

Yes. What does that have to do with the original topic of our dialogue?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes. What does that have to do with the original topic of our dialogue?

Yes. What does that have to do with the original topic of our dialogue?

Actually, a lot. The original topic was the basis for exercising discernment regarding behavior. We quickly determined that you are responsible only to God for your behavior. Moreover, you do not claim to be antinominan. You do claim to obey God's law, which you have defined as being found in the New Testament only. The Old Testament, according to you, does not contain God's law, at least as far as having any bearing upon yourself. I then asked you the question about loving God and your neighbor, which you have answered affirmatively.

I now congratulate you for being the second human to comply fully with these Old Testament laws.

 

[Thomas White]

Actually, a lot. The original topic was the basis for exercising discernment regarding behavior. We quickly determined that you are responsible only to God for your behavior. Moreover, you do not claim to be antinominan. You do claim to obey God's law, which you have defined as being found in the New Testament only. The Old Testament, according to you, does not contain God's law, at least as far as having any bearing upon yourself. I then asked you the question about loving God and your neighbor, which you have answered affirmatively.

I now congratulate you for being the second human to comply fully with these Old Testament laws.

I have said throughout this thread that we are all accountable to God, but we have no right to pronounce God's judgement against another. Let the heart of person stay between him/her and God. As for the Old Testament laws, we have been set free from the Old Testament laws that the Jews had to follow to remain obedient to God. The coming of Jesus Christ created a covenant between man and God.

As for the commandments that you mentioned, they are the greatest two, reiterated by Jesus in Matthew 22:34-40:

"[34] But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.

[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

[38] This is the first and great commandment.

[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophet."

Please explain to me what you are trying to say. I do not understand your point.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I have said throughout this thread that we are all accountable to God, but we have no right to pronounce God's judgement against another. Let the heart of person stay between him/her and God. As for the Old Testament laws, we have been set free from the Old Testament laws that the Jews had to follow to remain obedient to God. The coming of Jesus Christ created a covenant between man and God.

As for the commandments that you mentioned, they are the greatest two, reiterated by Jesus in Matthew 22:34-40:

"[34] But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.

[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

[38] This is the first and great commandment.

[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophet."

Please explain to me what you are trying to say. I do not understand your point.

I am not actually trying to say anything. I am trying to wrap my mind around your belief system.

On one hand you claim that you are accountable to God alone to obey His law, which is contained only in the New Testament. On the other hand, you agree that you are accountable to keeping two Old Testament commandments which, thus far in human history, only one person was actually capable of keeping.

Now that you say that you are keeping two of the Old Testament commandments, are there any others from the Old Testament that you feel obliged to obey? What are the consequences should you fail to completely and utterly love God all of the time?

 

[Thomas White]

I am not actually trying to say anything. I am trying to wrap my mind around your belief system.

On one hand you claim that you are accountable to God alone to obey His law, which is contained only in the New Testament. On the other hand, you agree that you are accountable to keeping two Old Testament commandments which, thus far in human history, only one person was actually capable of keeping.

Now that you say that you are keeping two of the Old Testament commandments, are there any others from the Old Testament that you feel obliged to obey? What are the consequences should you fail to completely and utterly love God all of the time?

I'm not saying we are accountable to the laws in the old testament. Jesus specifically said we should follow those two. He said we should follow many others. He specifically left out others. The buying and selling of slaves, for example.

I've also repeatedly said we are accountable to God's law and the law of the land, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say I believe I am accountable to God alone.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I'm not saying we are accountable to the laws in the old testament. Jesus specifically said we should follow those two. He said we should follow many others. He specifically left out others. The buying and selling of slaves, for example.

I've also repeatedly said we are accountable to God's law and the law of the land, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say I believe I am accountable to God alone.

I apologize for misunderstanding you. If the law of the land contradicts God's law what do you do?