Church discipline for morbidly obese

[Robin Mauro]

Hello,
I’m sure to get flamed hard for this post but I don’t care because it’s important to me and my family.

for the purposes of clarity in this thread I am asking regarding morbidly obese people. This is loosely defined by medical community as someone approximately 100 pounds over their ideal body weight. For example, a 6 foot 30 year old male who weights 275-300 pounds, with the majority of the excess weight being fat (and not muscle). This is not just overweight or “fat” Christians who could use to lose 10-20 pounds to be more healthy.

I believe that in such cases the elders of the church need to work with the morbidly obese individual to address their sin issue (gluttony). If they are willing to address the issue and repent, take steps to overcome, that is ideal. If the person refuses to acknowledge the sin, I think that church discipline procedures should be implemented in order to lead to possible repentance.

Obviously this needs to be done in love and by elder agreement in extreme cases, not fat shaming etc.

remember, in order to maintain morbid obesity status, even with health issues you have to consume VAST amounts of calories, 5000-7000, we are talking four pizzas and a dozen eggs and two loafs of bread and twelve pounds of bacon a day levels...


I also think if someone is giving themselves diabetes and other health issues from the overeating they need to be called out privately by other believers but that’s more sensitive and I havnt thought through it as much.

P.P.S
And what makes you so perfect? Maybe you should be prepared to have a meeting with the Pastor and elders about your sins too.

 

[redleghunter]

Yes, I have and I am one of them. There are older ones, I've had degenerative disks, fibro, and am in wheelchair, heart problems due to Dr. refusing to give me pain pills, and I was in such pain it sent my B/P so high it damaged my heart. Now I'm in hospice and can barely go to the front door without my heart acting up. My stepmother died at 91--she was obese. I've known several other elderly patients who were also obese. When I was younger I took care of an old couple, she was not heavy but, at 94---he was obese. So, no---it's not practically impossible!

Praying for you and your family dear sister in Christ.

 

[redleghunter]

P.P.S
And what makes you so perfect? Maybe you should be prepared to have a meeting with the Pastor and elders about your sins too.

Indeed Robin. We should be looking for that speck in our eye first. Thank you for bringing this up.

 

[Josheb]

Hello,
I’m sure to get flamed hard for this post but I don’t care because it’s important to me and my family.

for the purposes of clarity in this thread I am asking regarding morbidly obese people...... you have to consume VAST amounts of calories, 5000-7000, we are talking four pizzas and a dozen eggs and two loafs of bread and twelve pounds of bacon a day levels....

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... pizzzza!

Three months ago my 6' 1" body weighed 262 pounds. Today I'm down to 207 and planning to knock off another ten pounds over the next two to three weeks. I used EMP 180. I was 185 when I married at 37 23 years ago and I might work to get back to that weight but I look goood in the 195-205 range . I used a weight loss program and it was costly but it worked. I might have even saved a few hundred dollars and gotten to my goal a little sooner had I been more diligent with the exercise (a 20 minute walk three times per week).





So I think we have three options.

1) force the glutton to eat until s/he bursts ala the movie "Seven,"
2) ritual flaying and filleting in which the fat is removed without anesthesia,
3) a church sanctioned trip to Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University whereby the glutton learns to set aside money for a weight loss program, enjoins such a program while forming an accountability relationship with one to three same sex member of the congregation to encourage and exhort compliance... at the risk of options 1 or 2.

We could sow their mouths shut but some fat people are good singers and we wouldn't want their voices missing during worship.

Or..... we could love them as they are and do nothing knowing Jesus loves them exactly as they are, even if the temple warrants a gym membership.




Ooops! Almost forgot. In a week or three when I'm done with the weight loss I have plans to take the day off and murder one of the local pizza buffets.

I'll repent the morning after.​

 

[topher694]

Frankly all I need from the elders and pastor is that someone has a struggle and needs our prayers. Other than that let the pastors shepherd the flock. I don’t need details on someone’s moral failings as we all have one or a few.

When it gets to church discipline and restoration then yes the entire church should be involved and mainly in prayer and love.

Exactly my point

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No, exercise is crucial. It creates endorphines and makes people strong. It actually helps one overcome unhealthy food desires.
But we should not be too judgemental, for all have sinned, fst is just an easy one to see.

Exercise to a morbidly obese person is just normal activity to a person of healthy weight. No one needs exercise for health, but you do need to be physically active (and it's ok to call that exercise).

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Hello,
I’m sure to get flamed hard for this post but I don’t care because it’s important to me and my family.

for the purposes of clarity in this thread I am asking regarding morbidly obese people. This is loosely defined by medical community as someone approximately 100 pounds over their ideal body weight. For example, a 6 foot 30 year old male who weights 275-300 pounds, with the majority of the excess weight being fat (and not muscle). This is not just overweight or “fat” Christians who could use to lose 10-20 pounds to be more healthy.

I believe that in such cases the elders of the church need to work with the morbidly obese individual to address their sin issue (gluttony). If they are willing to address the issue and repent, take steps to overcome, that is ideal. If the person refuses to acknowledge the sin, I think that church discipline procedures should be implemented in order to lead to possible repentance.

Obviously this needs to be done in love and by elder agreement in extreme cases, not fat shaming etc.

remember, in order to maintain morbid obesity status, even with health issues you have to consume VAST amounts of calories, 5000-7000, we are talking four pizzas and a dozen eggs and two loafs of bread and twelve pounds of bacon a day levels...


I also think if someone is giving themselves diabetes and other health issues from the overeating they need to be called out privately by other believers but that’s more sensitive and I havnt thought through it as much.

Just because it’s the sin you see and a sin that’s not “socially acceptable” doesn’t mean it’s the sin you single out and tattle about. Solve all your struggles before telling others that they need to solve theirs to your satisfaction.

 

[dqhall]

Hello,
I’m sure to get flamed hard for this post but I don’t care because it’s important to me and my family.

for the purposes of clarity in this thread I am asking regarding morbidly obese people. This is loosely defined by medical community as someone approximately 100 pounds over their ideal body weight. For example, a 6 foot 30 year old male who weights 275-300 pounds, with the majority of the excess weight being fat (and not muscle). This is not just overweight or “fat” Christians who could use to lose 10-20 pounds to be more healthy.

I believe that in such cases the elders of the church need to work with the morbidly obese individual to address their sin issue (gluttony). If they are willing to address the issue and repent, take steps to overcome, that is ideal. If the person refuses to acknowledge the sin, I think that church discipline procedures should be implemented in order to lead to possible repentance.

Obviously this needs to be done in love and by elder agreement in extreme cases, not fat shaming etc.

remember, in order to maintain morbid obesity status, even with health issues you have to consume VAST amounts of calories, 5000-7000, we are talking four pizzas and a dozen eggs and two loafs of bread and twelve pounds of bacon a day levels...


I also think if someone is giving themselves diabetes and other health issues from the overeating they need to be called out privately by other believers but that’s more sensitive and I havnt thought through it as much.

A gram of fat has twice as many calories as a gram of carbohydrates.
Extreme obesity takes over 10 years off a person’s life.
Over 2/3 of the people in the US are obese.
The US was listed as the 12th most obese nation of 198 nations.
Some doctors are obese.

Some people turned to God and were healed of disease. If the doctor is obese, the nurse is obese and the preacher is obese, who can you turn to for healing?

 

[GaveMeJoy]

I mean...

Sounds like a joke. But hey why not have Bible small groups have each member sign sworn statements they are not watching inappropriate content and living together out of wedlock.

Why not be like a gulag.

Exercise to a morbidly obese person is just normal activity to a person of healthy weight. No one needs exercise for health, but you do need to be physically active (and it's ok to call that exercise).

with zero exercise and reducing their caloric intake to normal human levels, morbidly obese people can reduce their weight to obese and then overweight. The amount of food needed to remain morbidly obese is staggering, think multiple pizzas for dinner level

 

[GaveMeJoy]

Exactly my point

Agree

 

[GaveMeJoy]

I understand your concerns also. I had to watch my friend, one of the most active guys I've known, suffer great physical troubles that could have been avoided. But I also know that God works all things for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.

God is amazing. When I met my friend, he was a (gasp) smoker. I had a really negative attitude to smoking. The Lord led me to this man because he was to be the mentor that I needed. "But he smokes!" said I, but silently. The Lord said to me that its not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man. He went on to say that the words people speak are far more offensive to Him than cigarette smoke. That rather put me back in my box. I also found out that Charles Spurgeon smoked cigars, which I loath.

Again God had a purpose in my friend smoking and when that was done, he was delivered instantly. He never suffered any ailment related to smoking.

There is no "one size fits all" Christianity. It would be so much easier if there was!

Pete you the man my guy, your words are often spot on.

as a side note, many responses basically say church discipline is for sexual sin only virtually. I was under the impression it’s for all repetitive unrepentant sin. The thing most of these people posting and flaming me on this don’t understand is that morbidly obese people consume disgusting amounts of food daily, there is no way to be morbidly obese without eating an obscene amount of calories every single day, no days off. I’m taking about SERIOUS obvious gluttony. It’s not a situation where it might or might not be sinful...that’s just not how human bodies work.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

P.P.S
And what makes you so perfect? Maybe you should be prepared to have a meeting with the Pastor and elders about your sins too.

I do regularly. I’m proud, judgements, rash, a person of too many words, and a thousand other things. But I know they are wrong and hope my fellow believers in the body are willing to call me out on them as they occur to help me move towards obedience.

morbidly obese people (like my family members) are literally committing suicide by fork. They will die many many years earlier because of their food addiction. That is sad and I want to help anyone in that situation. It’s from the devil, brushing it under the rug is unloving

 

[Robin Mauro]

I do regularly. I’m proud, judgements, rash, a person of too many words, and a thousand other things. But I know they are wrong and hope my fellow believers in the body are willing to call me out on them as they occur to help me move towards obedience.

morbidly obese people (like my family members) are literally committing suicide by fork. They will die many many years earlier because of their food addiction. That is sad and I want to help anyone in that situation. It’s from the devil, brushing it under the rug is unloving

Pray for them. They know they have a problem and no doubt feel terrible about it, all the time, even if they don't tell you. I just don't think embarrassing them more will help.
My daughter used to cuss a lot. I talked to her over and over about it. It did not help. So I quit bringing it up entirely, and instead prayed in earnest she would hear herself. Not long afterward she told me "mom, suddenly I hear myself when I cuss and I sound terrible." God helped her overcome it, and I never told her about my prayers.
Overeating is an emotional thing, and it is very difficult for people to overcome; just as hard as any other addiction. Pray for them, and just love them anyway. You cannot control anyone but yourself.

 

[Strong in Him]

The church is not a collection of individuals living as they please. The real church is the body of Christ. What we do and how we live impacts everyone who is the church. We should be living in unity, working together and helping each other out when there are problems.

Yes, if a person's weight is a problem for them and they ask for help; of course.
That's very different from someone sitting them down and saying "you need to lose weight".

A lot of Christians have deep down issues of guilt and shame that they cover up by overeating. Some are just weak willed and refuse to allow the Holy Spirit to be their self control. Some have health issues that increase their weight. The utter stupidity of the world's dietary advice is also to blame. The explosion in obesity follows the low fat/no fat obsession almost exactly.

Yes, but again, I don't believe we have the right to interfere unless the person asks for help.

The causes are many. It is a real problem. I don't believe that it should be ignored. God knows the answers and real help is available.

Yes he does, and yes it is - but that would still not give a Minister the right to say, "your weight is a problem, and if it was caused by deliberately over eating; that's a sin."

 

[Strong in Him]

morbidly obese people (like my family members) are literally committing suicide by fork. They will die many many years earlier because of their food addiction.

I'm almost certain they will know that/would have been told by their doctors, though. If they lose weight, it needs to be because they want to and realise a need for change; otherwise it most likely won't work. If a person is self motivated - they want to lose weight to have a baby/fit into a dress/be able to run around after their children/don't want to die young - then when it's hard work, they will have a reason to keep going. I've read about people who were publicly teased about their weight, and it made the so unhappy, then went straight home to comfort/binge eat.

That is sad and I want to help anyone in that situation.

That's admirable - but unless the person asks for help, there may be nothing you can do, except pray.
Like with an alcoholic, or any other addict, they have to want to change; in some cases they may not be able to unless they reach rock bottom or get some kind of wake up call.
But I don't believe it's the Minister's job to deliver that wake up call.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

that would still not give a Minister the right to say, "your weight is a problem, and if it was caused by deliberately over eating; that's a sin."

Couldn’t disagree more, this is exactly the responsibility of church leadership in cases of members who are morbidly obese and unhealthy. Allowing someone to continue in sinful overeating or eating themselves to death without speaking up is the definition of unloving

 

[GaveMeJoy]

I'm almost certain they will know that/would have been told by their doctors, though. If they lose weight, it needs to be because they want to and realise a need for change; otherwise it most likely won't work. If a person is self motivated - they want to lose weight to have a baby/fit into a dress/be able to run around after their children/don't want to die young - then when it's hard work, they will have a reason to keep going. I've read about people who were publicly teased about their weight, and it made the so unhappy, then went straight home to comfort/binge eat.



That's admirable - but unless the person asks for help, there may be nothing you can do, except pray.
Like with an alcoholic, or any other addict, they have to want to change; in some cases they may not be able to unless they reach rock bottom or get some kind of wake up call.
But I don't believe it's the Minister's job to deliver that wake up call.

Do you believe in church discipline at all then? It appears many people in this thread believe it’s reserved for sexual sin but the passages indicate it’s for any unrepentant sin, at least how I read them.

I suppose morbidly obese would generally not defend their gluttony and flaunt it in the face of the church, which is sometimes what happens with other common sins like infidelity that church discipline is implemented for

 

[GaveMeJoy]

Yes, I have and I am one of them. There are older ones, I've had degenerative disks, fibro, and am in wheelchair, heart problems due to Dr. refusing to give me pain pills, and I was in such pain it sent my B/P so high it damaged my heart. Now I'm in hospice and can barely go to the front door without my heart acting up. My stepmother died at 91--she was obese. I've known several other elderly patients who were also obese. When I was younger I took care of an old couple, she was not heavy but, at 94---he was obese. So, no---it's not practically impossible!

Anything is possible. However, it’s exceedingly rare. I’m sorry you have health challenges, but it’s good you are on Christian forums! in Christ, Jeremiah

 

[Strong in Him]

Do you believe in church discipline at all then? It appears many people in this thread believe it’s reserved for sexual sin but the passages indicate it’s for any unrepentant sin, at least how I read them.

If it's a sin that affects the whole church; yes. I imagine that usually that will be a sexual sin.
I know of 2 occasions when married people in the church started affairs with each other. In the first case, I know that the Vicar withheld/banned them from Holy Communion for a certain time; I'm not sure about the 2nd. I think that in both cases the people concerned left the church for a while. Whether that was from embarrassment/shame, or because they were told to because too many others were being hurt and it they were bad role models; I'm not sure.

If someone is repeatedly committing a "private" sin, e.g gossiping, I do feel that's between them and the Lord.
The Minister could certainly preach on sin, temptation or whatever - and if he/she did, I am certain the Holy Spirit could convict anyone who needed to repent of that sin. But for a Minister to go to someone and say "I hear you have a problem with gossip; that's a sin", would not only be ironical - hearing of the gossiping problem through gossip - but wrong.

 

[Strong in Him]

Couldn’t disagree more, this is exactly the responsibility of church leadership in cases of members who are morbidly obese and unhealthy.

No, it's unasked for interference, and wrong.
Like I said, I am certain the person themselves would know they were morbidly overweight, as would their doctors, and may be trying to deal with the problem. In this case, they would need encouragement.
If, for some reason, it has never occurred to the person that they may be obese, they have never had problems with the stairs, breathlessness etc; saying to them "you're overweight, that's a sin", would do nothing to help them and would come across as judgemental.
If anyone had ever said that to me, or if anyone said now "you still need to lose a few pounds", I'd be straight out the door - and probably console myself with a large bar of chocolate.

Allowing someone to continue in sinful overeating or eating themselves to death without speaking up is the definition of unloving

And commenting on someone's weight without being asked, and when you don't know the reasons for the weight gain or the person's struggles, is judgemental, and would most likely lead to the loss of a church member; or maybe even many. Who wants a Minister who judges your personal life/habits and pronounces that you are sinning? Where do you draw the line; "Minister, may I read this book?" "Minister, can I get a tattoo/have my ears pierced?" Or what if the Minister were to say "wearing make up/jewellery is a sin; you may be doing it out of vanity and it may cause resentment"? That could lead to a Minister being authoritarian and dictatorial - which is, itself, a sin and not loving.