Church authority interpretation of drunk Noah

[christianmomof3]

Have any of ya'll heard this interpretation before?
The example of Noah getting drunk and being seen by Ham and Ham being cursed as an example of not questioning church authority - even when that authority is wrong because if you question or complain about it like Ham did then you will be cursed like he was. They said you should not even talk about it when church leaders do something wrong.

To me, that story goes along with honor your father and mother. Noah was Ham's father, not his church leader and Ham was disrespectful of his father and he should not have been. I don't see that translating into never speaking about any wrongdoings of any church leaders or you will be cursed.
Have any of ya'll heard this teaching before?

I also looked up the Jewish understanding which states that it was not Ham who was cursed, but his son, Caanan, who was most likely involved in the incident which may have involved some sexual immorality or even that Noah was castrated. Again, nothing about church authority.

What have ya'll heard about this story?

 

[Rick Otto]

Have any of ya'll heard this interpretation before?
The example of Noah getting drunk and being seen by Ham and Ham being cursed as an example of not questioning church authority - even when that authority is wrong because if you question or complain about it like Ham did then you will be cursed like he was. They said you should not even talk about it when church leaders do something wrong.

To me, that story goes along with honor your father and mother. Noah was Ham's father, not his church leader and Ham was disrespectful of his father and he should not have been. I don't see that translating into never speaking about any wrongdoings of any church leaders or you will be cursed.
Have any of ya'll heard this teaching before?

I also looked up the Jewish understanding which states that it was not Ham who was cursed, but his son, Caanan, who was most likely involved in the incident which may have involved some sexual immorality or even that Noah was castrated. Again, nothing about church authority.

What have ya'll heard about this story?

I remember hearing that in the charismatic congregation I attended for awhile.
I didn't know what to make of it at the time, but it does sound self-serving, doesn't it?

 

[Rick Otto]

From Wiki:

The Curse of Ham is a misnomer[1][2][3] for the curse upon Canaan that was imposed by the biblical patriarch Noah.
The relevant narrative occurs in the Book of Genesis and concerns Noah's drunkenness and the accompanying shameful act perpetrated by his son Ham the father of Canaan (Gen. 9:20–27).[4] The controversies raised by this story regarding the nature of Ham's transgression, and the question of why Noah cursed Canaan when Ham had sinned, have been debated for over two thousand years.[5] The story's original objective was to justify the subjection of the Canaanites to the Israelites,[6] but in later centuries, the narrative was interpreted by some Jews,[7] Christians and Muslims as a curse of, and an explanation for, black skin.[8][9] Nevertheless, many Christian denominations strongly disagree with such interpretations due to the fact that in the original biblical text, Ham himself is not cursed and race or skin color is never mentioned, and therefore, out of context in the story of Genesis 9.

 

[Rick Otto]

From Wiki:
The overall objective of the story is to justify the subject status of the Canaanites, the descendants of Ham, to the Israelites, the descendants of Shem.[6] However, according to Nahum Sarna, the narrative of the curse upon Canaan is replete with difficulties.[12] It is uncertain what the precise nature of Ham's offense is.[12] Verse 22 has been a subject of debate,[13] as to whether it should be taken literally, or as a euphemism for gross immorality.[12] In verse 25, Noah names Shem and Japheth as the "brethren" (the New Living Translation reads "relatives") of Canaan, seven verses after indicating that they were Canaan's uncles. The Table of Nations presents Canaan and Mizraim (Egypt) as among sons of Ham (10:6). In the Psalms, Egypt is equated with Ham.[14] The treatment of Japheth in verses 26–27 raises questions: Why is YHWH named as the God of Shem, but not of Japheth? What does it mean that God will "enlarge" Japheth? And why will Japheth "dwell in the tents of "Shem"?[15] Further difficulties include Ham's being referred to as "the youngest son", when all other lists make him Noah's second son.[12] Per Sarna, the biggest challenge of the narrative is why Canaan was cursed, rather than Ham,[12] and the concealed details of the shameful incident bear the same reticence of Reuben's sexual transgression.[16]
The narrative's short five verses give indication that Canaan's Hamite paternity must have had great significance to the narrator or redactor, according to Sarna, who adds: "The curse on Canaan, invoked in response to an act of moral depravity, is the first intimation of the theme of the corruption of the Canaanites, which is given as the justification for their being dispossessed of their land and for the transfer of that land to the descendants of Abraham."[17]

 

[Nanopants]

I think the most relevant thing about this scripture is shown firstly in that Ham saw his father's nakedness and told his two brothers, whereas the brothers covered their father's nakedness, which exposes Ham's unfaithfulness with faithfulness. This is also a theme expressed in one of Isaiah's prophecies (one of my favorites actually):

"[Is] this not the fast that I have chosen: To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free, And that you break every yoke? [Is it] not to share your bread with the hungry, And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out; When you see the naked, that you cover him, And not hide yourself from your own flesh? Then your light shall break forth like the morning, Your healing shall spring forth speedily, And your righteousness shall go before you; The glory of the LORD shall be your rear guard. Then you shall call, and the LORD will answer; You shall cry, and He will say, 'Here I [am].' "If you take away the yoke from your midst, The pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness, [If] you extend your soul to the hungry And satisfy the afflicted soul, Then your light shall dawn in the darkness, And your darkness shall [be] as the noonday. -Isa 58:6-10

Love covers a multitude of sins.

 

[Nanopants]

^To me, that says learning how to be a good friend takes priority over a multitude of sins.

 

[annier]

Have any of ya'll heard this interpretation before?
The example of Noah getting drunk and being seen by Ham and Ham being cursed as an example of not questioning church authority - even when that authority is wrong because if you question or complain about it like Ham did then you will be cursed like he was. They said you should not even talk about it when church leaders do something wrong.

Who are the "They" you speak of?

To me, that story goes along with honor your father and mother. Noah was Ham's father, not his church leader and Ham was disrespectful of his father and he should not have been. I don't see that translating into never speaking about any wrongdoings of any church leaders or you will be cursed.
Have any of ya'll heard this teaching before?

Never have either. Who is teaching this?

 

[MamaZ]

I remember some of what you have posted but that was many years ago. It is a fear tactic.

 

[LaSpino3]

Apparently a number of years had passed since the flood. How old was Canaan? who was the son of Ham. This is not mentioned in Scripture, but he had to be at least a young man.

Ver.21, Noah had already uncovered himself, The Hebrew word here is, "wayyitgal, a reflex form," Noah uncovered himself. This is important to understand that Ham did not uncover his father.

Noah's curse is not on Ham, who had mocked his father by looking upon his nakedness, but on his son Canaan. The curse was not personal against Ham, but on Ham's posterity. Noah said,

Gen.9:25, "Cursed be Canaan;" Now of Canaan, Noah said, "a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren." This can be interpreted, he is reduced to the most degrading servitude.

In these ancient days, looking upon your fathers nakedness was a breach of family ethics. The sanctity of the family was destroyed and the strength of the father was made a mockery. Ham may have wandered into his father's tent accidently, but, what he did wrong was to go out and tell his two brothers. He may have bragged about this incident as if it were some kind of victory.

In Noah's day, it was a major disgrace. In ver.25 thru 27, it shows that the nature of his three sons would be perpetuated in their future families, their descendents.

Moses wrote concerning this incident in Gen. 9. So, the question to ask is, how does he uses the phrase, "father's nakedness," in other areas of Scriptures? Lets go to,

Lev.18:6, "None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD."

Lev.18:7, "The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness."

Moses used the causative form of the verb "galah" to refer to the Canaanites' (Ham's descendants.) Here to uncover another's nakedness is to have a sexual relationship. In both Lev.18, and Lev.20:11, "The man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness." Again, "galah," is to have sexual relationships.

Noah's curse on his son is, "a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren." It received it first fulfillment in the subjection of the Canaanites by the children of Abraham. The following also can be found in the history books.

The conquest of Canaans descendants, the Tyrians and Carthaginians by the Greeks and Romans, who were the descendants of Japheth. The people of Africa, were the sons of Canaan, they having suffered greatly under the yoke of slavery. The people of ancient western Asia also suffered long under the Turkish powers. Africa and western Asia were peopled by Ham, Cush, Mizraim, Phut, and Canaan.

"Cursed be Canaan," the nations which God destroyed before Israel, were descended from Canaan; and so were the Phoenicians and Carthagians who were for a time subjugated with a horrific destruction by the Greeks and Romans, and taken into slavery.

Phil LaSpino

 

[Fireinfolding]

To the OP, if we were to look at it from that angle, it says, against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses, so getting two others wouldn't seem to have been so wrong. Whereas Jesus speaks of one who trespasses against you (more specifically), to go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone

But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more

Well, if we were to look at it that way.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Have any of ya'll heard this interpretation before?
The example of Noah getting drunk and being seen by Ham and Ham being cursed as an example of not questioning church authority - even when that authority is wrong because if you question or complain about it like Ham did then you will be cursed like he was. They said you should not even talk about it when church leaders do something wrong.

To me, that story goes along with honor your father and mother. Noah was Ham's father, not his church leader and Ham was disrespectful of his father and he should not have been. I don't see that translating into never speaking about any wrongdoings of any church leaders or you will be cursed.
Have any of ya'll heard this teaching before?

I also looked up the Jewish understanding which states that it was not Ham who was cursed, but his son, Caanan, who was most likely involved in the incident which may have involved some sexual immorality or even that Noah was castrated. Again, nothing about church authority.

What have ya'll heard about this story?

Yeah the whole "touch not the lord's annointed" craze comes to mind .