Christmas Tree Paganism

[buzuxi02]

Art isn't sinful if you don't worship it

I am a water colour painter just mostly amateur with the odd commission thrown in when my health is up.to it which isn't often.

Someone at church h who didn't know anything about .e was praying for me and said "I feel the Lord is saying He loves your artwork.". I was like " how do you know I paint? " he replied "I didnt.must have been Holy Spirit"

I didn't say it was worship. I said pagans had artwork as well. The OP stated we shouldn't use a tree because germanic pagans used one for something. I use a small ceramic buddha figurine as a book end. Doesn't mean I'm a Buddhist. I have Greek statues and vases doesn't mean I'm worshipping Zeus etc. I collect Superman comics doesn't mean I idolize a fictional all powerful alien from outer space etc.

 

[SalemsConcordance]

I didn't say it was worship. I said pagans had artwork as well. The OP stated we shouldn't use a tree because germanic pagans used one for something. I use a small ceramic buddha figurine as a book end. Doesn't mean I'm a Buddhist. I have Greek statues and vases doesn't mean I'm worshipping Zeus etc. I collect Superman comics doesn't mean I idolize a fictional all powerful alien from outer space etc.

That's helpful to read. I've still got a lot of convertitus, but my earlier extreme period I trashed a lot of my old things (books, art, etc.) - I think that speaks more to how much I idolized them then the art itself, though I still don't care for anything hollywood.

 

[Lost4words]

My protestant relatives recently told me that Christmas trees are pagan and thus Christians should not have them in their houses. How would you respond to this concept?

I never seen anyone worshipping to a Christmas tree?

 

[Littlek]

I posted something about Christmas not to long ago. The Christmas tree to me is just a pretty decoration. I love the way the lights look at night, and although I use a fake tree, I love the way they smell (real ones). I use those pine sticks you can buy in a small plastic tube..and hang a few in my tree.
I'm not praying to my tree, It's not a God, it doesn't bring any spiritual significance at all...its just pretty, and I enjoy decorating them. I had 5 last year LOL..but 1 is just a skinny tree at my front door.
Now, if I fell to the floor and prayed...oh great tree help me...there would be a huge problem. LOL

 

[buzuxi02]

Now, if I fell to the floor and prayed...oh great tree help me...there would be a huge problem. LOL

I myself am not too keen on Christmas trees. Heck it was imported into the christian culture of my Greek people quite recently.
But like you said it's pretty and it can and has been reinterpreted etc.
The christians who make this claim are hypocrites in my opinion, because if you accuse other christians of paganism then I can easily find pagan customs they would have to fore go as well (which they won't). A television reproduces graven images, most movies portray pagan elements and behaviors are these people going to toss their televisions.
Are these people saying if japanese people convert to christianity they must get rid of the japanese national sport of Sumo wrestling because they throw salt over their shoulder and go through other non religious shinto customs?

 

[prodromos]

The Western 'tradition' picked up in Greece that irks me the most is depicting st Basil, the Saint most closely associated with Christmas in the East, as a fat, white haired, white bearded man in a red suit

St Basil was a strict ascetic who died young before getting a single white hair.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The Western 'tradition' picked up in Greece that irks me the most is depicting st Basil, the Saint most closely associated with Christmas in the East, as a fat, white haired, white bearded man in a red suit

St Basil was a strict ascetic who died young before getting a single white hair.

I thought that was St. Nicholas?

 

[prodromos]

I thought that was St. Nicholas?

He is the one most associated with Christmas in the West, and he also was an ascetic.

 

[E.C.]

He is the one most associated with Christmas in the West, and he also was an ascetic.

Yeah, but he won the Battle Royale against the Heresiarch Arius back in the day.
St Nicholas 1, Arius 0!

 

[buzuxi02]

I thought that was St. Nicholas?

The fat bearded jolly guy in the red suit is not St. Nicholas to Greeks, it's St Basil. One reason is because prior to 1965ish gifts amongst Greeks were opened on New years which happens to also be his feast day.

If you listen to the Greek version of ,'Santa Claus is coming to town' he is actually being called Hagios Vassilis (st. Basil):

 

[buzuxi02]

The Western 'tradition' picked up in Greece that irks me the most is depicting st Basil, the Saint most closely associated with Christmas in the East, as a fat, white haired, white bearded man in a red suit

Western influence has skewered more than just that one aspect of St. Basil's life. What irks me is the cutting of the Vasilopita is no longer associated with St Basil and the miracle associated with him of redistributing the tax refunds. Instead it's now a custom which commemorates secular New Years! Even the concept that winning the coin in the cake means good luck for the new year is bogus as Orthodoxy has no concept of "luck".

 

[prodromos]

One reason is because prior to 1965ish gifts amongst Greeks were opened on New years which happens to also be his feast day.

We've taken on that tradition in our family. It means Christmas day is focussed on the celebration of the Nativity of our Lord. The kids weren't sitting in Church impatiently waiting to get home so they could open their loot. We also love bringing in the new year at the vigil service for St Basil.

 

[prodromos]

Seriously, what does a fat, white bearded man in a red suit have in common with the above?

 

[buzuxi02]

Seriously, what does a fat, white bearded man in a red suit have in common with the above?

It's the same with St. Nicholas. St Nicholas was always portrayed as skinny with a receding hairline and usually a grey beard. After the 20th century many icons start showing him with a fuller whiter beard, even his receding hairline became fuller and whiter trying to morph him into modern day santa claus. In this link we see ancient icons of St.Nick even a 19th century Greek icon portraying him as a black person yet the resemblance is all similar. After 20th more icons especially Greek varieties portraying him as more of the coca cola version:

Saint Nicholas: icons and frescoes

 

[Lukaris]

Sometimes I think seeing paganism in so many things can sometimes be an inadvertent paganism itself. In Genesis 1, it is stated that what God created was good. God forbid that it we might want to see the tree and it’s lights as signs of the Lord redeeming His creation in relation to His Incarnation in John 1. Might we not see the Lord Himself declaring His divinity & ministry in John 10 & fulfilling the cleansing of the Temple of pagan idolatry by the Maccabees in 2 Maccabees 10:1-9? That this fulfillment by the Lord is of the Chanukah tradition at the same time of year His Incarnation is celebrated?

My statement is not directed at the conversation in the thread itself just at a (usually non Orthodox) tendency to see paganism when something good just might be happening ( James 1:17, as is stated when the DL nears conclusion).

 

[RickardoHolmes]

Now have 4 Trees up in the house, although only one is decorated, we are going to get up early tomorrow and decorate the rest.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

Christmas is the fulfilment of the pagan festivals it coincides with. Christ sanctified those festivals with his birth. There is nothing wrong with keeping the benign aspects of those festivals and Christianizing them. It's the people who want to take Christmas and erase history and put paganism back into it that worry me.

 

[Albion]

I use a small ceramic buddha figurine as a book end. Doesn't mean I'm a Buddhist. I have Greek statues and vases doesn't mean I'm worshipping Zeus etc.

I collect Superman comics doesn't mean I idolize a fictional all powerful alien from outer space etc.

Not to take exception to your point, but the Christmas tree isn't even as questionable as a Greek statue or Buddha figurine, which, after all, are what they are.

By contrast, the Christmas tree is explicitly and uniquely Christian; and there is no pagan counterpart...not unless we count trees in general.

 

[BNR32FAN]

My protestant relatives recently told me that Christmas trees are pagan and thus Christians should not have them in their houses. How would you respond to this concept?

In order for something to be pagan it must involve honoring a false god or demon. Just because pagans did something doesn’t mean that anything we do that they did is pagan. Christians do a lot of things that pagans did. Pagans gathered to worship gods on Sunday that doesn’t mean that Christians are pagans because they worship on Sunday. In fact pagans actually worshipped a different god every day of the week which is how we got the names of each day of the week. Pagans worshipped false gods by prayer and singing, does this mean Christians aren’t allowed to pray or sing? It’s not the action itself that constitutes paganism it’s the motivation for the action. Are we not allowed to sing carols because pagans did it first? I think some people just tend to overreact. Christmas trees have simply become a part of tradition that in no way dishonors God or promotes the worship of any false gods.

 

[RickardoHolmes]

I was looking over the Lighting job that my son put up The house eaves could use a row of lights, the net lights that he talked me into buying last year and never used should be out on the shrubs, but there is still this big empty window from the spare garage that overlooks the street. It is large and empty. Then it occurred to me.
What does this window need?
A CHRISTMAS TREE ! Fortunately, we have one more 6 foot green one which was still out away and not in use, SO I will go out right away, put lights on it and put it in the window That will bring our house total up to 5 Trees. FIVE !